How are you feeling about the cuts the cruise lines are making to "recover" covid loss of income?

[cruisemom42]

22 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm curious about which ports are those?   I want to know what I might be missing.   

 

More ports:  large ships do not seem to call on Gythion, Greece and Pula Croatia, two stops on my upcoming Azamara cruise and both of which have been on my list to visit for some time....

 

Sometimes smaller ships can get closer to iconic ports than larger ones. For example, small ships can dock IN the cities of Bangkok and Saigon (instead of a couple of hours away by bus for larger ships). Another example in Europe in addition to Bourdeax (already mentioned) is Seville, Spain. 

 

On Voyages to Antiquity we once stopped at a port in Turkey that I've never seen listed on any other ship's itinerary: Tasucu. From here we visited ruins of a Roman town, saw a Roman bridge, and also visited a Crusader castle.

 

An island off Italy, called Ponza, was on a few itineraries of the old Holland America Prinsendam. Sadly, HAL no longer has what I'd consider small ships.

 

 

[ldubs]

29 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What ports are not accessible (or welcoming) to big ships?  There are probably hundreds around the world.  Imagine cruising all the way up the Garonne River and docking in downtown Bordeaux.  (we did that on an 800 passenger ship....but mega ships need not apply).   Or picture a monster ship trying to tender thousands into the port of Nanortalik where there is only room for a single tender at the pier.  We were once in Nanortalik on the Caribbean Princess when more than 1000 (out of about 3600)  passengers never even got to shore (after waiting over 4 hours for their tender number to be called).  On our recent visit (about 2 weeks ago) on the 450 passenger Seabourn Quest there were no tender tickets or lines.  One just walked down to the tender area (on the ship) and stepped onto the next tender.  And than you have ports like Key West, Bar Harbor, St Barts, etc. that have made it clear they do not want large ships (these places consider 1200 passengers too many).

 

What are you missing when only cruising larger ships?  How about a ship that never has a queue...for anything!  Want to go to a show?   You simply walk in at the last minute.  Want to take a tender?  Simply go to the tender area.  Want to eat lunch in the Lido at prime time?  The hostess will quickly seat you or you can simply grab a table on your own.  Want to go to the piano bar?  There are always seats.  Want to go to the MDR for dinner?  Just walk in any time (during open hours) and there are plenty of tables.  No reservations, no waits.

 

Also consider itineraries.  We are booking a small ship cruise in the Caribbean that includes ports like Isles des Saintes and Terre de Haut (both on Guadaloupe), Little Bay, Montserrat, San Juan del Sur, etc.  Folks who only cruise on mega ships have likely never heard of these ports.  Imagine going to a Caribbean port where there are only a few hundred cruisers vs going to a port like St Thomas where there can be over 20,000 (on a single day).

 

Hank

 

Yes, I asked a question about what small ports for, I thought, a specific cruise mentioned by another poster.  I wanted to better understand this feature of small ship cruises.  I learned about a couple --  in Bermuda and the Caribbean.   I'm not a fan of Caribbean cruises, so likely won't know the large ship ports much less appreciate any of those small ports you or he mentioned.  Docking at Bordeaux sounds wonderful.  I would find docking at places like that very appealing.  I've been to Bar Harbor a few times by tender.  To be sure it was crowded.        

 

While not my question, I have no doubt small ships are less crowded (how could they not be).  My perception (and experience based on only a couple Caribbean trips) is most of the complaints about crowding must relate to the mega ship Caribbean cruises.  The cruise ships I enjoy are in the 2,500 to 3,500 passenger range.  As far as dining, we would have reserved MDR time slots. We do not commonly experience long waits there are at other venues.  The places we normally go are not in the Caribbean or from Florida ports.  

 

 

 

 

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

More ports:  large ships do not seem to call on Gythion, Greece and Pula Croatia, two stops on my upcoming Azamara cruise and both of which have been on my list to visit for some time....

 

Sometimes smaller ships can get closer to iconic ports than larger ones. For example, small ships can dock IN the cities of Bangkok and Saigon (instead of a couple of hours away by bus for larger ships). Another example in Europe in addition to Bourdeax (already mentioned) is Seville, Spain. 

 

On Voyages to Antiquity we once stopped at a port in Turkey that I've never seen listed on any other ship's itinerary: Tasucu. From here we visited ruins of a Roman town, saw a Roman bridge, and also visited a Crusader castle.

 

An island off Italy, called Ponza, was on a few itineraries of the old Holland America Prinsendam. Sadly, HAL no longer has what I'd consider small ships.

 

 

 

Thanks!  I love Seville. Would not have imagined docking there.    

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

2) I don’t think this is a forever problem as they will get out of debt at some point.  However I worry that some of the changes will be forever and only serve the cruise line profitability long after debts are paid

 

This point is so undervalued. People act like everything that happens in the world today is law forever. Just like housing. That bubble will pop. The pendulum always swings the other way.

 

There have already been reversals of some cruise changes. 

[Markanddonna]

16 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

 

 I don’t think this is a forever problem as they will get out of debt at some point.  However I worry that some of the changes will be forever and only serve the cruise line profitability long after debts are paid

This is exactly what will happen because we will become like that frog who became desensitized while the pot was heating. The items and services that have been taken away will be added for additional fees.

[evandbob]

After 65 cruises, we are mainly interested in sailing just for being on the ship.  We only do local cruises as we dont fly anymore.  So as long as the cabin and balcony are cleaned once daily, and food & service in MDR & specialty restaurants remain reasonable, we are fine.

 

We also dont get perturbed if the ships start charging for items that used to be free.  While I enjoyed just grabbing a choc chip cookie at no charge, I can easily walk right by if a sign says $2 each.

Edited August 31, 2023 by evandbob

[ontheweb]

I was just discussing with DW that our cabin on the cruise we completed earlier this month was only serviced once by the stewards. I said I did not really miss the second service, and she said she did not know why it was even necessary.

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I was just discussing with DW that our cabin on the cruise we completed earlier this month was only serviced once by the stewards. I said I did not really miss the second service, and she said she did not know why it was even necessary.

 

The only thing I would want a second "servicing" for is ice.  If I take a shower after the "first" service I have no problem in waiting for the next day to get the towels replenished.  And I don't need turndown service.

[Hlitner]

Tis a slippery slope to be satisfied as services are cut, food quantity/quality decline, and prices increase.  When a business (in this case, cruise lines) has a priority to maximize profits and reduce debt, the quality of everything will suffer until the business meets some resistance.  That resistance would be folks refusing to book the line under current pricing and circumstances.  

 

From my perspective, we have noticed the gradual decline of most mass market lines, and we have simply adjusted by taking most of our business to the luxury and near luxury lines.  After a recent 6 week HAL cruise, my DW said "no more HAL."  Consider that we have more than 500 days on that line and yet will not book any future cruises (with HAL) until they clean up their act and restore the quality that we have grown to expect from that company.  If they do not reverse their overall decline we will never see the deck of another HAL ship.  Not a problem as there are plenty of other cruise lines or land trips in our future.

 

Those of you who simply accept the decline, such as moving to once a day cabin servicing, are just giving the cruise lines an incentive to cut other services (or charge a fee for what used to be included in the cruise price).  

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Tis a slippery slope to be satisfied as services are cut, food quantity/quality decline, and prices increase.  When a business (in this case, cruise lines) has a priority to maximize profits and reduce debt, the quality of everything will suffer until the business meets some resistance.  That resistance would be folks refusing to book the line under current pricing and circumstances.  

 

From my perspective, we have noticed the gradual decline of most mass market lines, and we have simply adjusted by taking most of our business to the luxury and near luxury lines.  After a recent 6 week HAL cruise, my DW said "no more HAL."  Consider that we have more than 500 days on that line and yet will not book any future cruises (with HAL) until they clean up their act and restore the quality that we have grown to expect from that company.  If they do not reverse their overall decline we will never see the deck of another HAL ship.  Not a problem as there are plenty of other cruise lines or land trips in our future.

 

Those of you who simply accept the decline, such as moving to once a day cabin servicing, are just giving the cruise lines an incentive to cut other services (or charge a fee for what used to be included in the cruise price).  

 

Hank

The fact is: there are still a lot of people who have never cruised, so they will grab the least expensive option offered. ..

 

Then, there are many for whom the lowest APPARENT price is the most important factor - and they will continue to stick with the line which offers the lowest cost experience (or seems to offer - once the nickel and diming comes in what they ultimately pay is very different from what they thought they were going to pay) - until they finally wise up.  For people who enjoy cruising - especially those who got to know it when it was a quality experience - the mass market lines are losing their attraction.  Once you pay the add-ons for the “quality” experience on a 4,000+ passenger behemoth (separating you from the peasants who book regular accommodations) you might as well consider the premium lines.

[wineoclock]

My worry on the smaller ships is motion sickness. The smallest ship I’ve been on m, I think was Celebrity’s Galaxy, Disney’s wonder also. If I sailed eg SB or SS or Regent anyone know how sizes compare? I’m not keen on E class but have 2 upcoming cruises on E class booked. 
 

We are starting to look around at other lines but dh is at the moment reluctant to change. But 2025 (if we do a cruise) is likely to be Princess for Panama and then Alaska if timings can work. 

[evandbob]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Tis a slippery slope to be satisfied as services are cut, food quantity/quality decline, and prices increase. 

 

Hank

The OP was concerned just with service cutbacks and said nothing about fare increases.  As a seasoned cruiser (65+ sailings), I can tolerate some cutbacks while fares remain steady.  My previous reply was to the OP's concerns, and price increases were not listed amongst them.

[Joebucks]

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Tis a slippery slope to be satisfied as services are cut, food quantity/quality decline, and prices increase.  When a business (in this case, cruise lines) has a priority to maximize profits and reduce debt, the quality of everything will suffer until the business meets some resistance.  That resistance would be folks refusing to book the line under current pricing and circumstances.  

 

From my perspective, we have noticed the gradual decline of most mass market lines, and we have simply adjusted by taking most of our business to the luxury and near luxury lines.  After a recent 6 week HAL cruise, my DW said "no more HAL."  Consider that we have more than 500 days on that line and yet will not book any future cruises (with HAL) until they clean up their act and restore the quality that we have grown to expect from that company.  If they do not reverse their overall decline we will never see the deck of another HAL ship.  Not a problem as there are plenty of other cruise lines or land trips in our future.

 

Those of you who simply accept the decline, such as moving to once a day cabin servicing, are just giving the cruise lines an incentive to cut other services (or charge a fee for what used to be included in the cruise price).  

 

Hank

 

As you stated eloquently, the experience has continued to change, and will continue to do so. It wasn't all that long ago that "people will stop cruising because of the loss of pillow mints, tablecloths, and fancy silverware." Those things were a blip in the ocean.

 

As much as the old-timers whine and complain about "the things that are gone," the market has overwhelmingly voted with their wallet that these things are not important. Your average cruiser simply doesn't care if the room is serviced two times a day. They just don't. If these services are important to you, they are available on luxury lines. However, few want to pay for it. The loudest voices just want it for free.

 

Dare I say that some people might even prefer the experience of today. Sure you might not have lobster every night, a tablecloth, or hand-and-foot service on your mass-market line. However, some people might find value in larger ships with more entertainment options (for them and their family), that has sufficient dining options, all at a price adjusted for inflation that is cheaper than "what used to be." 

 

Now, I might tend to agree with you that I'd have higher expectations on a line like HAL. However, I just don't understand the notion from some that mass-markets are some kind of luxury service. 

[Hlitner]

I think your post is the one that should be categorized as eloquent.  Yes, I am one of those "old timers" who has been blessed to have done an awful lot of cruising and traveling over the past 50 years.  My age and experience have taught me to demand excellence (in many ways) or I will simply move on to a product that does a better job.  For the time being, we have changed how we choose our cruises, and the expectation of quality and value (not price) has caused us to move away from a few lines (i.e. HAL, Celebrity, RCI, etc).  

 

On CC, I will simply call it the way I see it (this has always been our way) and see no reason to compromise on the standards we expect on cruises.  Over our cruising life we have been on 16 different cruise lines (3 additions coming in the next year) and quite a few of those 16 are no longer with us (Orient, Sitmar, Regency, Renaissance, etc.).  I mention this because the nature of this industry is that cruise lines do fail, and I would not be surprised to see some lines fail in the next 5 years, unless they get their act together.  And by the way, the new line we are trying next month (Explora Journeys) does have lobster on a daily basis.  That being said, at that level of cruising I suspect that most folks see lobster as just one offering our of many and not anything really special.  DW and I have long been amazed at the impact, a few rubbery somewhat tasteless warm water lobster tails, can have on the psyche of some cruisers.  On our recent Seabourn cruise, it was the perfectly prepared Beef Wellington and the excellent tableside prepared/fileted Dover Sole, that made me smile.  The lobster was good (expecially the Thermidor) but was nothing I ordered more than once.

 

Hank

[DarrenM]

some worrying critisism of celebrity on this thread. Sorry been away from the site for a few weeks so just catching up.

 

We have done 3 celebrity cruises now since 2019 and I found no reduction in service or quality.

 

If the room was only cleaned once a day, well I always thought thats what happened anyway.

 

And frankly no normal human being needs the room seeing to twice in a day, especially as most folk spend little time in there.

 

the entertainment was excellent, apparently. Wasnt to my taste so it was a bet meh for me. But all shows were full, and the cast got massive applause.

 

The food was top notch. Yes the prices for the speciality restaurants had gone up, but that just made them nicer, as they werent full all the time.

 

And the drinks package, premium, was well worth it, as I reckon I drank them out of cocktails.

 

Maybe I will notice things more after our next one in May 2024.

 

The one in may, 11 nights med from Rome to Venice(ravenna) is costing us £4,200 total (Balcony cabin) and that includes the medium drinks package, which i will upgrade to the premium, prior to getting there.

 

Flights  are on top and they are £800 return. So £5k all in.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

 

 

 

[gardenbug22]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:15 PM, Cruise till you drop said:

I completely understand that cruise lines suffered financially during the Covid lockdown.  It’s abundantly clear that in order to get out of debt, things need to change.

However, for me there are 2 things

 

1) I wish cruise lines would be a little bit more transparent about these moves instead of just cramming it down our throats while bookings are high

 

2) I don’t think this is a forever problem as they will get out of debt at some point.  However I worry that some of the changes will be forever and only serve the cruise line profitability long after debts are paid

I don't think you are wrong. I suspect once they have financially recovered their debt that they will not restore the level of service of service we once enjoyed.

[Cruise till you drop]

9 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

I don't think you are wrong. I suspect once they have financially recovered their debt that they will not restore the level of service of service we once enjoyed.

Exactly

[navybankerteacher]

45 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

I don't think you are wrong. I suspect once they have financially recovered their debt that they will not restore the level of service of service we once enjoyed.

Agreed - they have attracted a broad market of customers who appear to be satisfied with what is now offered - so they will have no incentive to restore previous amenities;  rather, having learned that they could cut services to reduce costs, they will be inclined to seek further cuts.

[Mary229]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:54 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Have they REALLY raised fares all that much?  It sure does not look like it in promotional ads.

They have not and judging from cruise critic members they will have a hard time doing so.  People are very vocal about the slightest increases then complain about cost cutting.  

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Mary229

[Mary229]

On 8/29/2023 at 10:36 AM, mjkacmom said:

Carnival and Royal did the same.

As did every hotel I have stayed at since 2020 and I likely have more hotel nights than I have cruise nights in the past 3 years 

[Kristelle]

Nowhere I stay on land or anywhere do I need or particularly want twice daily room servicing or bed turndown.

These are things I would quite happily forgo and don't see as beneficial to me. 

 

 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Kristelle said:

Nowhere I stay on land or anywhere do I need or particularly want twice daily room servicing or bed turndown.

These are things I would quite happily forgo and don't see as beneficial to me. 

 

 

In the states it has gone beyond that.  I often book hotels for 3 - 5 days and now you don’t get any service during that period unless you request it.  Even when requested the best you may get is fresh towels and trash disposal.  

[Kristelle]

You usually get daily room servicing in Australia although one can opt out of daily towel changing for water conservation -  however my point was that twice daily isn't the norm on land nor something worth getting anywhere, land or sea, IMO.

[cruisemom42]

I think part of the reasoning for twice-daily servicing was the original focus on the Caribbean and warm-weather destinations for cruising led to a lot of extra towels in cabins (from pool use, more than 1 shower per day, etc.) and the need to remove old, wet towels and provide clean, dry ones.

 

I actually stay in several hotels in Europe regularly and they all provide a turn-down service in the evenings.

 

Part of me wonders in the US if it's a case of wanting to get by with fewer staff rather than raising prices more. Although my favorite hotel in Rome is charging me no more in 2023 than they did in 2022 or indeed pre-COVID.

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

Granted they tend to be high end, but I have stayed at a few resort-type hotels (and our favorite, non-resort hotel) that do two maid visits per day, which would agree with what @cruisemom42 stated.

 

If you don't want a second visit, ask them not to do it. Simple as that.