Gratuities [eeeek]

[Ret MP]

16 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We never tip porters, and have never lost a piece of luggage; come to the dark side. 

We almost always see eye to eye on things in here, with very small variations.  However, when it comes to gratuities/tipping, I completely and totally disagree.  However, we have the right to do our own thing and I'll not criticize you personally for your opinions/actions on this.

[lovesthebeach2]

20 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Cruise lines provide a fairly comfortable “living wage” to the crew. Most crew make 1.5-2X the average annual wage in their perspective countries on a 9 month contract.  

In order to better understand this system, one must stop looking at this onboard staff “economic environment” through the lens of a North American or Western European. 

I agree with you, I’ve spoken to many of the crew from all over and they all told us they do very well working on ships. If not why would they leave their families and children and do it over and over again. 
 

EDIT to add…..we DO tip generously 

Edited September 4, 2023 by lovesthebeach2

[Ret MP]

2 minutes ago, loman said:

I like to start off my cruise by approaching the porter and handing him a fiver and say can you hold this for me . 

Then i hand him my neatly folded tags for him to staple to my two bags and we are all smiling .

 

I just watched a YouTube video yesterday dealing with the porters and how much to tip them.  The guy doing the video recommends tipping porters $5.00 PER BAG/PIECE OF LUGGAGE.  WOW, our porter would be able to retire if I/we did that.  The video guy apparently doesn't know how much my wife and I pack for a 7 - 8 night cruise.  Now, if we only had two pieces of luggage total, I'd be happy to tip him/her $10.00.  But, when you have 2 or 3 pieces of luggage per person, that's a little extreme, even for me, the over-tipper.  I personally believe that $10.00 - $15.00 dollars total, regardless of # of bags, for just two people is plenty.  

 

I must admit that on our first Star Cruise (this is not a brag, just a fact), I really wasn't sure about how things operated upon arrival at the terminal.  We pulled up to the terminal where the purple Star pennant was, I dropped off our luggage and my wife stayed with the luggage while I parked the car.  So far, everything is as expected/normal.  But, then our Genie came out accompanied by a crew member who quickly loaded our luggage on a cart and was gone, that moved a lot faster than I/we expected.  We didn't have a chance to talk to him or hand him anything.  Never saw him again and our luggage was in our room before we were, about 30 minutes later.  So, our crew member/porter did not receive a tip from us.  I really felt bad and I asked the Genie if he'd take the tip and give it to the crew member who brought our luggage up.   He said that he didn't pay any attention to who the crew member was and that the job of getting Star Class passenger's luggage at the terminal was a sign-up/voluntary job and they got a little extra in their paycheck for it.  So, at least, he got something for the effort, just not what I would have liked.  Moral of the story:  If you are a tipper and a Star Class passenger, make sure you communicate and tip the crew member/porter as soon as you see him/her as you may never see him/her again.  Oh, and never give your luggage to a port employee/porter if you're Star Class.  

[yogimax]

41 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Cruise lines provide a fairly comfortable “living wage” to the crew. Most crew make 1.5-2X the average annual wage in their perspective countries on a 9 month contract.  

In order to better understand this system, one must stop looking at this onboard staff “economic environment” through the lens of a North American or Western European. 

They are not working in their own country so the comparison is meaningless.

 

They are working in an environment that caters to those who can afford to spend thousands of dollars for a week's vacation.  For those of us who are blessed (yes, blessed) to be able to afford cruising, complaining about a small percentage of the total spent, seems a bit gratuitous.

[not-enough-cruising]

46 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

We almost always see eye to eye on things in here, with very small variations.  However, when it comes to gratuities/tipping, I completely and totally disagree.  However, we have the right to do our own thing and I'll not criticize you personally for your opinions/actions on this.

And that is the way we should all behave toward one another. 
 

I appreciate you 

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, yogimax said:

They are not working in their own country so the comparison is meaningless.

 

They are working in an environment that caters to those who can afford to spend thousands of dollars for a week's vacation.  For those of us who are blessed (yes, blessed) to be able to afford cruising, complaining about a small percentage of the total spent, seems a bit gratuitous.

I would also add:  Many of the crew that come from 3rd world countries also support their entire family, some extended family (aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, and so on). Yes, some don't and some just make up sob stories to get your sympathy. But, I'd rather err on the side of helping.  That is one of the many reasons that I take some personal satisfaction in tipping the crew generously and often.  

[not-enough-cruising]

13 minutes ago, yogimax said:

They are not working in their own country so the comparison is meaningless.

 

They are working in an environment that caters to those who can afford to spend thousands of dollars for a week's vacation.  For those of us who are blessed (yes, blessed) to be able to afford cruising, complaining about a small percentage of the total spent, seems a bit gratuitous.

They are not living in another country either. 
they are living an all expense paid life during their contract, and the money made all goes to their home country; so that is where the value should be assessed. 
 

I am not complaining about tipping. I tip very well; but I will not participate in or not respond to the narrative that the crew are living o like slaves and are poorly compensated. 
 

My response was to an individual demanding a living wage; and without a doubt the crew is being paid a very generous living wage. 

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I would also add:  Many of the crew that come from 3rd world countries also support their entire family, some extended family (aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, and so on). Yes, some don't and some just make up sob stories to get your sympathy. But, I'd rather err on the side of helping.  That is one of the many reasons that I take some personal satisfaction in tipping the crew generously and often.  

As I said above, I am not at all against tipping the crew. I consider myself to be generous. 
I, unlike you, choose not to participate in the automatic daily gratuity. No harm no foul; just different strokes for different folks. 

[loman]

Good info Ret MP . 

 

Still not tipping 5 bucks a bag though ,  lol 😁

[HicksRA]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We never tip porters, and have never lost a piece of luggage; come to the dark side. 

Speaking from panicked experience, it happened to me a couple of months ago at Galveston. It was a madhouse out front and I rolled my three pieces of luggage up from the parking lot. There was a porter there by the shuttle buses loading luggage on a cart and I rolled mine over to him. I realized that my tip money was in the pouch I keep our passports in and started digging for it to get a tip out. 
I turned around and he was gone. 
Fast forward to that evening. My biggest suitcase with “everything” in it never showed up. I spent the whole evening in a panic trying to find it. Naughty room, guest services, stewards and security searching and finally they called me about 9 PM saying they might have found it. 
I use the clear plastic tag holders on all luggage.  When they found it, it had a porter’s tag with a random cabin number on it for another deck and all that was left of my tag holder was the steel cable and the eye the sleeve had been on. 
I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that this happened the only time I didn’t tip a porter. 
 

[Vibe]

If you are going to remove the automatic gratuities and stiff the crew, remember to hide your tooth brush, it could be mistakenly used to clean the toilet.

[Tatka]

7 hours ago, scooby1 said:

If RCL isn't paying enough money to the crew that is an issue with them, the expectation within the EU is staff are payed the correct amount and the gratuities / tip is a bonus and should absolutely not need to be relied upon to pay wages. In fact in the UK there is a minimum wage that must NOT include bonus / gratuities / tips in the calculation. 

What is correct amount considering that most crew does not live in EU?

 

RCI just like most other cruise lines collects autobiographies separately because they do not count toward profit so they are not subject of taxes. This allows to pay higher salaries to crew than if it was a part of fare. Win-win for cruisers too IMHO.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Tatka

[Ourusualbeach]

6 hours ago, Pandamonia said:

Whats funny is that Celebrity is supposed to be Royals upmarket brand and yet inside Europe Celebrity are always including drinks, wifi and tips in the cruise fare and yet Royals ships get nothing included any more. 

 

In fact i have never seen inclusive grats on any EU Royal sailing personally and yet they get huge numbers refunded every cruise. 

 

Makes me wonder what they are thinking most of the time as there seems to be very little logic. 

 

They did for a while and it was all cruises not just Europe but for the past year there is the option to get the cruise without the perks.  They just changed this again and effective in October the three perks will be reduced to two as gratuities will no longer be included as one of the perks

[Tree_skier]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We never tip porters, and have never lost a piece of luggage; come to the dark side. 

I'm generally a good tipper and always tip extra on cruises but you, and a couple others, finally convinced me to stop tipping the porters when you told me they were longshoremen making good wages. My bags have made it all the way without problem on my last three cruises.  If we meet in IRL, I owe you a drink. 🙂 

 

It's not so bad on the dark side. 👾

Edited September 4, 2023 by Tree_skier

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

I'm generally a good tipper and always tip extra on cruises but you, and a couple others, finally convinced me to stop tipping the porters when you told me they were longshoremen making good wages. My bags have made it all the way without problem on my last three cruises.  If we meet in IRL, I owe you a drink. 🙂 

 

It's not so bad on the dark side. 👾

I look forward to sharing an old fashioned on board soon

[Ashland]

22 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

They did for a while and it was all cruises not just Europe but for the past year there is the option to get the cruise without the perks.  They just changed this again and effective in October the three perks will be reduced to two as gratuities will no longer be included as one of the perks

Will be sailing X next Mar 2024 and this will only be our 2nd sailing with them (Sunset Veranda) what perks will we get other than Elite status? I didn't include any option when I booked.

[Ourusualbeach]

8 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Will be sailing X next Mar 2024 and this will only be our 2nd sailing with them (Sunset Veranda) what perks will we get other than Elite status? I didn't include any option when I booked.

If you just booked the standard nrd fare on their website you get nothing extra. (Other than elite).

 

FYI, TA group rates include gratuities, wifi and drink package and a refundable deposit often times for the same or very little more rhan Celebrities nrd no perks rate. 

 

 

[Seville2Cabo]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The minimum wage that P&O pays is EXACTLY the same as the minimum wage for the same position that Royal pays. 
The difference is P&O gets the money upfront to cover these costs, whereas Royal tries to guilt their customers into subsidizing this amount AFTER advertising a competitive low fare in their perspective market. 

I have no data, but would guess that the workers on Royal make more money in the end.  First, P&O tends to have more customers not accustomed to tipping and second, a hard worker on Royal will get additional cash tips that their P&O peer probably will not get (or not as much).  

 

Does this help Royal get better workers??

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, Seville2Cabo said:

I have no data, but would guess that the workers on Royal make more money in the end.  First, P&O tends to have more customers not accustomed to tipping and second, a hard worker on Royal will get additional cash tips that their P&O peer probably will not get (or not as much).  

 

Does this help Royal get better workers??

Regardless of data, I believe you are 110% correct.  Any service worker worth their salt would much rather work in an environment that practices the cash tip system.

[neverbeenhere]

Good, we get to go back to yesteryear and pay them in salt.

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

As I said above, I am not at all against tipping the crew. I consider myself to be generous. 
I, unlike you, choose not to participate in the automatic daily gratuity. No harm no foul; just different strokes for different folks. 

No argument here.  Yep, just differing opinions is all.  The world won't change, at all.

 

Nobody get me wrong if I don't/didn't feel like I received the service that I expected, I'd have no problem going to the Customer Care desk and having my gratuity reduced for that particular venue/service if that is even allowed, I think I read that it is all or nothing, nothing in between.  I've never done it because I haven't experienced bad enough service to motivate me to do such a thing.  

[Ret MP]

3 hours ago, Vibe said:

If you are going to remove the automatic gratuities and stiff the crew, remember to hide your tooth brush, it could be mistakenly used to clean the toilet.

Or:  Same basic result, just different but similar use in the same general location.  

 

[nelblu]

5 hours ago, Ret MP said:

  But, then our Genie came out accompanied by a crew member who quickly loaded our luggage on a cart and was gone, that moved a lot faster than I/we expected.  We didn't have a chance to talk to him or hand him anything.  Never saw him again and our luggage was in our room before we were, about 30 minutes later.  So, our crew member/porter did not receive a tip from us.  

The crew member was probably a Royal employee and not a porter who belong to the Longshoremen's Union.

[sgmn]

7 hours ago, time4u2go said:

Is this something new?  I was on a European Celebrity cruise last year, and drinks, wifi, and tips were most definitely NOT included in the fare.  Or perhaps you mean for residents of Europe (which I am not).

 

It's changed from all included to choice of basic fare or all included . As I don't drink enough to warrant a drink package and in Europe don't need WiFi I don't really want a fully inclusive (much more expensive) fare.

[Ret MP]

40 minutes ago, nelblu said:

The crew member was probably a Royal employee and not a porter who belong to the Longshoremen's Union.

Ah ummmm, yaaaaa.  That's what I said.  Longshoremen are not called or considered "crew", in any way, shape, or form, at least not that the general public/passengers have contact with.  They are porters and/or longshoremen, hence the name Long"shore"men.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ret MP