Is NCL headed in the right direction with the Prima/Leonardo class of ships?

[DrSea]

I am a little concerned about NCL's future because many whom I talk to prefer the breakaway and breakaway+ class. Many have pointed out the lack of space at venues, buffet, or the indulge food hall. Others say that the layout is confusing. Also, NCL is losing ground to MSC as they have more ships and potentially more customers. I just realized last week that NCL lost their position as the 3rd largest cruise line by fleet size. What all that in mind, it doesn't sound like fair seas for NCL in the future. 

 

I would like to get people's thoughts as I haven't sailed the Prima class yet.

 

Thanks. 

 

Disclaimer: I own a measly 100 shares of NCL

Edited September 16, 2023 by DrSea

[omahabob]

I didn't vote because the question is confusing. The poll choices are about the Prima class, but your post is about the future of NCL. Though related, those are two very different things. I also don't think you can judge viability or value by fleet size. There are advantages and disadvantages to any size fleet. Having said that, I do think they went the wrong way with the Prima/Viva design concept.

[JIMESOPUS]

We sailed on the Prima and will sail on the Viva real soon. Love the fact the ships are smaller, similar to the Jewel class which we love.

 

The Prima - Some say it's an attempt to copy the success of the Virgin Voyages ships, while I believe it was Frank's dream to upscale NCL and make it closer to the other two brands Regent and Oceania. What a waste of deck space for statues, and a neutral color scheme throughout the ship drives me crazy. With the open-air design of the ship, operating it in colder climates doesn't make any sense. At least for now, San Juan will be Viva's homeport in the winter.

 

This class has nothing to do with the direction of the company, for the past 18 months, NCL has embraced a cost-cutting culture. Everything has been affected, entertainment with the loss of production shows, food quality, type and additional upcharges, and cabin cleaning reduction to one per day. I could go but we all have been affected in one way or another.

As long as the consumer keeps booking these cruises they will keep on cutting and raising prices.

[IAcruising]

 

Not voting. But I like that NCL is going smaller, rather than bigger like Royal. A few tweaks, and the Prima class will be amazing.

 

 

[fstuff1]

2 hours ago, DrSea said:

I am a little concerned about NCL's future because many whom I talk to prefer the breakaway and breakaway+ class. Many have pointed out the lack of space at venues, buffet, or the indulge food hall. Others say that the layout is confusing. Also, NCL is losing ground to MSC as they have more ships and potentially more customers. I just realized last week that NCL lost their position as the 3rd largest cruise line by fleet size. What all that in mind, it doesn't sound like fair seas for NCL in the future. 

 

I would like to get people's thoughts as I haven't sailed the Prima class yet.

 

Thanks. 

 

Disclaimer: I own a measly 100 shares of NCL

the 3rd prima ship has been delayed a year for a re-design due to feedback from Prima.

 

Viva itself has a good change in that the starbucks next to the Foodhall has been taken out for more seating for the Foodhall.

 

lets hope the new Prima Plus class (or whatever they call it) in 2025 wont create new problems

Edited September 17, 2023 by fstuff1

[IAcruising]

1 minute ago, fstuff1 said:

the 3rd prima ship has been delayed a year for a re-design due to feedback from Prima.

 

 

That is great news, and certainly expected. Just look at the difference between Breakaway and Encore. Live and learn.

 

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, DrSea said:

I am a little concerned about NCL's future because many whom I talk to prefer the breakaway and breakaway+ class. Many have pointed out the lack of space at venues, buffet, or the indulge food hall. Others say that the layout is confusing. Also, NCL is losing ground to MSC as they have more ships and potentially more customers. I just realized last week that NCL lost their position as the 3rd largest cruise line by fleet size. What all that in mind, it doesn't sound like fair seas for NCL in the future. 

I think that the biggest "issue" is that people try to compare the 3000 passenger Prima to the 4200 passenger BA+ ships. They are not the same. They don't need the same facilities. If they had equal facilities, that would be a total waste of revenue space. 

 

You don't need a 4-station buffet when the ship is a lot smaller and you add the indulge food hall. The biggest compliant (as echoed in your post) is the buffet is too small... quite to the contrary, the buffet is "right size" for the ship and the venues available.

 

I have sailed on the Prima twice and have never had a big issue with seating in the induldge. Maybe if you show up at peak time, you'll have to wait for a seat,,, but we always found a seat in one walk through the food hall and were ordering away.

 

The layout maximizes space. Yeah, you don't have a walkway down both sides of the ship,,, but that would be a waste of space. "Confusing" is, again, someone trying to compare apples to oranges. "It's not the same as other NCL ships".... so what??? I cruise multiple cruise lines and had zero problem finding my way around. Forward. Aft. Maybe people got totally confused without fish on the floor. 

 

We sailed on the Prima twice. And have booked a cruise on the Viva when she gets to this side of the pond. No issue. No concern. 

 

Stop trying to compare a big fat Escape to a sleek, beautiful Prima. 
 

As far as the future, ncl continues to lead the industry in innovation to meet the demands of the contemporary cruiser. Old cruisers don’t linke change. Confusing,,, I suppose. Royal and others are playing catch-up. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by BirdTravels

[graphicguy]

The mega ships, which were the ships du jour 5 years ago from all the mainstream cruiselines are losing favor to smaller ships that are easier to manage.  

 

I’m looking forward to sailing the Prima/Viva when prices begins to drop.  I think the experiences they offer are exciting.

 

 

[IAcruising]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

Stop trying to compare a big fat Escape to a sleek, beautiful Prima

 

This is absolutely spot on.

 

Royal keeps going bigger, bigger, bigger. NCL is going smaller and more precise. They will make improvements to the Prima class just as they did with the Breakaway class. The future looks good.

 

[CptBoatface]

Getting ready to disembark Prima. All of the main noted criticisms are valid, at full capacity in cold weather was way too crammed. We prefer getaway+. Aesthetics and cabin size for balcony in gen pop are great. Walking through buffet to get around on 17 is a hot mess. Overall good experience but will avoid this class in cold weather and until tweaks are made

[ontheweb]

We were on the Prima last month, London (Southampton) to Reykjavik. And yes the ship would be better for a warmer climate cruise, but we still enjoyed our cruise immensely. And we don't understand the criticisms of the buffet layout. We thought it was fine, and also never had a problem finding seating generally though leaving the immediate buffet area for seats.

 

Glad they went smaller. Our last NCL cruise was on the Epic, and it was much too large. The other cruise lines seem to be going in the opposite direction, building bigger and bigger ships.

[craig01020]

Haven't yet cruised on the Prima class. I am a little confused because it's trying to be more upscale, but still has water slides going around (and through) cabin balconies and a race track looming over the main pool!

[PhillyTravelBug]

I am curious to see later down possibly starting with the next ship what sort of modifications will be made.  The ship itself is gorgeous and like what they're doing.

[TenForward]

10 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

 

Stop trying to compare a big fat Escape to a sleek, beautiful Prima. 

 

 

Fat shaming, lol

 

[fstuff1]

10 hours ago, graphicguy said:

The mega ships, which were the ships du jour 5 years ago from all the mainstream cruiselines are losing favor to smaller ships that are easier to manage.  

 

I’m looking forward to sailing the Prima/Viva when prices begins to drop.  I think the experiences they offer are exciting.

Royal isnt going smaller.

Icon of the Seas broke Royals previous record setting # of pax on any cruise ship.

 

Neither is Carnival.

Margi Gras class is their biggest cruise ship. 

the 2nd of that class was delivered last year.

(edit: hm.. it's the Excel class but usually the 1st ship of that class is the name of the class.)

 

Or do you mean Pax are now preferring smaller ships?

I don't know. it could be that Prima/Viva are new ships and that's why people are flocking to them.

 

Also, bookings Celebrity's smaller ships are WAY up because they are giving rooms away for free like candy to their casino players.

(They never used to send out mass post cards in the past)

 

[graphicguy]

41 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

Royal isnt going smaller.

Icon of the Seas broke Royals previous record setting # of pax on any cruise ship.

 

Neither is Carnival.

Margi Gras class is their biggest cruise ship. 

the 2nd of that class was delivered last year.

(edit: hm.. it's the Excel class but usually the 1st ship of that class is the name of the class.)

 

Or do you mean Pax are now preferring smaller ships?

I don't know. it could be that Prima/Viva are new ships and that's why people are flocking to them.

 

Also, bookings Celebrity's smaller ships are WAY up because they are giving rooms away for free like candy to their casino players.

(They never used to send out mass post cards in the past)

 

Royal slipped into getting smaller after the ships in the Oasis class were sailing.  They had other bigger ships on the books and built them.  Not sure how they are being received.  Last Royal cruise I took was Ovation a year and a half ago.  But, I’m Diamond with them, so have sailed with them more than a little.

 

Celebrity Ships were always a bit smaller than the rest.  I love their EDGE class.  But, they hold 3,000 passengers, not the 4,000 + of Royal’s, NCL’s and Carnival’s biggest ships.  Even there, the Celebrity traditionalists hated the EDGE class.  I’m the opposite.  I like new and different. Others?  Not so much.

 

 

Carnival I haven’t followed too much.  Nothing wrong with them.  They just aren’t my “thing”.

 

I think the Viva and Prima are the sweet spot in the market.  Whenever there’s a change in any cruise line’s ships, the traditionalists get all up in arms.  Then, passengers and crew get used to what they’re doing and things smooth out.

 

You aren’t going to grow if you keep doing the same thing over and over.  New and different is a good thing.  Just have to be open minded.

 

I’m waiting for prices to drop on both Prima and Viva before booking.  Both are new and demand exceeds their capacity.  Eventually that will all settle.

[Capitan Obvious]

2 hours ago, craig01020 said:

Haven't yet cruised on the Prima class. I am a little confused because it's trying to be more upscale, but still has water slides going around (and through) cabin balconies and a race track looming over the main pool!

 

Despite what you may believe, the slides you are referring to are not water slides at all, nor do they go through any balcony area accessible from a guest cabin. Additionally, the race track goes around the ship's funnel, not over the main pool. (IOW, if the race track was removed, the funnel would still be, as you say, "looming over the main pool").

[UKstages]

48 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

Despite what you may believe, the slides you are referring to are not water slides at all, nor do they go through any balcony area accessible from a guest cabin.

there are two slides on the prima, “the drop” and “the wave.” the drop has no water, but the wave, as the name implies, is indeed a water slide.
 

as for intersecting guest-accessible balcony areas, no, technically, they do not. but that’s because they were specifically built around them by reducing the size of what otherwise would have been a cabin’s balcony and placing a railing there so the average person can’t get near the slide. there are many rooms on the prima (and presumably the viva) that are “slide adjacent.” the slides block views, reduce the footprint of the balcony and are a major source of noise for those cabins.

Edited September 17, 2023 by UKstages

[Capitan Obvious]

3 hours ago, UKstages said:

there are two slides on the prima, “the drop” and “the wave.” the drop has no water, but the wave, as the name implies, is indeed a water slide.
 

as for intersecting guest-accessible balcony areas, no, technically, they do not. but that’s because they were specifically built around them by reducing the size of what otherwise would have been a cabin’s balcony and placing a railing there so the average person can’t get near the slide. there are many rooms on the prima (and presumably the viva) that are “slide adjacent.” the slides block views, reduce the footprint of the balcony and are a major source of noise for those cabins.

 

Lots and lots of misinformation...

 

If you want to be accurate, there are FOUR slides on the Prima. The post of mine that you are quoting was in response to another poster stating: " has water slides going around (and through) cabin balconies". The poster was obviously not referring to "the wave" as it does not, in any way, shape, or form go around and through cabin balconies...you know, as well as I do, that the poster wasn't referring to the wave, but was incorrectly labeling the other slides as "water slides".

 

"Technically"? Is that the new "I know you are right, but I want to argue anyway" phrasing? Note that you are only assuming that, without these slides, that the areas they pass through would have been a cabin's balcony. Those areas could have also simply not been constructed at all. So we can all play "slide adjacent" until the cows come home...anything to promote the narrative. Major source of noise? Despite all of the tales of doom and gloom BEFORE the Prima was launched, I don't see people here posting anything about excessive noise from slides, nor am I seeing videos where you could hear all of this excessive noise. 

[CruiseMH]

17 hours ago, JIMESOPUS said:

We sailed on the Prima and will sail on the Viva real soon. Love the fact the ships are smaller, similar to the Jewel class which we love.

 

 

The Prima Class is 50 % bigger (by gross tonnage and double occupancy capacity) than the Jewel class ships. 😉

 

19 hours ago, DrSea said:

 Also, NCL is losing ground to MSC as they have more ships and potentially more customers. I just realized last week that NCL lost their position as the 3rd largest cruise line by fleet size.

 

NCL won`t have a chance against MSC. Reason is that the cruise fleet of MSC is only a very small part of the total fleet of MSC: The operate more than 400 (!) container ships (of which 50 are also owned by them). They are making billions with their container ships,so they have enough money to build new ships in an extreme short time.(two new ships per year) and can offer prices which NCL simply can`t cause MSC doesn`t need to make the profit with the cruise ship that NCL has to make.

 

[JIMESOPUS]

1 hour ago, CruiseMH said:

The Prima Class is 50 % bigger (by gross tonnage and double occupancy capacity) than the Jewel class ships. 😉

 

 

NCL won`t have a chance against MSC. Reason is that the cruise fleet of MSC is only a very small part of the total fleet of MSC: The operate more than 400 (!) container ships (of which 50 are also owned by them). They are making billions with their container ships,so they have enough money to build new ships in an extreme short time.(two new ships per year) and can offer prices which NCL simply can`t cause MSC doesn`t need to make the profit with the cruise ship that NCL has to make.

 

Agree on the size but double occupancy number is always subjective. We have been on the Getaway with around 4600 PAX according to the latitudes desk, the listed number for that ship is 3963, given an opportunity NCL will pack the ship full.

From our friends at NCL, I think the Pearl is the smallest Jewel class ship and the Viva is slightly lighter, must have gotten rid of those couches in Syd Normans

Edited September 17, 2023 by JIMESOPUS

[PhillyTravelBug]

Regarding the noise coming from the slides… I did not hear any noise and barely saw people using them. The slides were only open from 2-5pm I believe.

[oteixeira]

18 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

 

Stop trying to compare a big fat Escape to a sleek, beautiful Prima. 

I like fat ships and I can not lie!  :D  

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, Capitan Obvious said:

Lots and lots of misinformation...

i honestly have no bloody idea what most of the subtext or ire in your post is about, but i agree… lots of misinformation.

 

you said there is no water slide on the prima. i said in my response to post #17 that indeed there is. It’s called the wave.  i wasn’t responding to any other post and so i can’t really comment on aspects of other posts that concern anyone or that anyone thinks i’m responding to or that anyone thinks I understood or misunderstood.
 

as for slides being adjacent to or in close proximity to balconies, this is also true. One of those slides is in fact the wave. the slides intersect what would otherwise be cabin balconies on the NCL prima. they are located within feet, in some cases, inches of guest cabin balconies, severely reducing the footprint of those balconies. warning people of this before they book is important, just as if their cabin were above or below a fitness center, a theater or a pool deck.
 

your suggestion that nobody really knows if this space would be a balcony or not defies credulity. it is in fact a balcony, with a big hole cut through it. it shares the very same floor as the balconies on either side of it. (what do you suppose they would put in there on nine or ten decks? a duty free shop? auxiliary seating for the buffet? teeny tiny life boats? and how would crew and passengers access this space?) i believe the original deck plans for the prima actually showed full balconies in those spaces… it wasn’t until shortly before the prima sailed that NCL revised the deck plans.

 

with regard to the noise emanating from said slides, it’s quite raucous and consistent during the hours of operation, i speak from personal experience, having spent 21 days on the prima. i don’t need to read noise complaints online to know that there are screams coming from the wave and the drop. i heard them myself. whether there have been complaints, or whether somebody believes there have been complaints is entirely irrelevant. the noise, and the inconvenience of having thrill seekers whiz by your balcony - which is what was being discussed - is quite real. and all that is happening in those tubes which are intersecting what would otherwise have been your balcony.

 

as for four slides, here again, i honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. where do you believe these other two slides are located?

Edited September 17, 2023 by UKstages

[graphicguy]

MSC….Have sailed them a couple of times.  

 

A few I know here at CC have “jumped ship” to them because of price.  Beautiful ships.  

 

But in reality, they have a ways to go service wise compared to NCL, Royal, Carnival, etc!

 

Personally, they’ve tried to screw me over.  Had to sic American Express on them for reneging on an MSC quoted fare and then trying to charge additional $$$ to my AMEX secretly.  AMEX contacted me to ask about it.  At least they had my back!

 

Service in the Yacht Club is good, but not Haven or Retreat levels.

 

Entertainment?  Food?  Hit and miss.

 

Pricing?  Good at first.  But now, like all the rest….sometimes good…sometimes not.

 

North America itineraries, Caribbean, Bermuda, Canada, Alaska….they just can’t compete, either!