$13,000 theft of artwork on Legend out of Baltimore.

[SeaScout]

Looks like a couple stole $13,000 worth of artwork from the art auction area at 2:00 AM.  The theft wasn't discovered until after the ship docked back in Baltimore and guests had disembarked. Authorities eventually caught them but apparently they have not yet been charged yet. Some folks are pretty ballsy.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-accuses-duo-swiping-sculptures-carnival-cruise-bermuda/story?id=104570589

Edited November 2, 2023 by SeaScout

[pe4all]

Don't understand why the culprits weren't charged with anything yet.  The stolen items were found in their houses via a search warrant, they have video of them in the art gallery going in empty-handed and walking out with something, possible Facebook id, etc.   What other proof do they need? 

[sparks1093]

35 minutes ago, pe4all said:

Don't understand why the culprits weren't charged with anything yet.  The stolen items were found in their houses via a search warrant, they have video of them in the art gallery going in empty-handed and walking out with something, possible Facebook id, etc.   What other proof do they need? 

Probably tussling over jurisdiction and who gets to prosecute.

 

As for Carnival's potential loss, wouldn't it be zero? The Art Gallery is an independent business as I understand it. 

 

This does remind me of a short story that I once read. International jewel thief goes on a cruise and an expensive piece of jewelry is stolen from a museum in a port. He is an obvious suspect and is searched at Customs. They find nothing and let him go. The following week he re-boards the same ship on a Cruise to Nowhere, stays in the same cabin and recovers the item from where he had hidden it. Waltzes off the ship since there is no Customs to worry about. Neat story back in the day but I doubt that it would be that feasible nowadays (since Cruises to Nowhere have gone the way of the Dodo bird, among other things). 

[sanger727]

35 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Probably tussling over jurisdiction and who gets to prosecute.

 

This. They have amble proof that the suspects stole the artwork. But with it being on a cruise ship they have to work out state vs federal prosecution. Also, they need a representative from the Art Gallery to be willing to go to court to prosecute. If the art gallery recovered their items, they may not be willing to send someone to Baltimore for the trial. 

[tidecat]

41 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

This. They have amble proof that the suspects stole the artwork. But with it being on a cruise ship they have to work out state vs federal prosecution. Also, they need a representative from the Art Gallery to be willing to go to court to prosecute. If the art gallery recovered their items, they may not be willing to send someone to Baltimore for the trial. 

Park West and/or could try to pursue a civil matter for damages in Baltimore, which likely would not be worth the lawyer's fees, but the criminal matter may very well be under Bahamian jurisdiction as Legend is registered in Nassau.

 

Probably just easier to ban the couple across all brands in the corporate umbrella and move on.

[AllgoodOnTheRoad]

They probably took two Thomas Kinkade Amazon prints. 13k is just what Park West valued them at. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, pe4all said:

Don't understand why the culprits weren't charged with anything yet.  The stolen items were found in their houses via a search warrant, they have video of them in the art gallery going in empty-handed and walking out with something, possible Facebook id, etc.   What other proof do they need? 

Maybe they have to decide on the charge. A theft of $13,000 would be grand theft, but what jury would believe in that valuation?

[shipgeeks]

My theory is that it's a ploy by PW, to make some future cruisers think they really got a deal if they bid a mere $3,000 on a similar piece.

[IntrepidFromDC]

3 hours ago, pe4all said:

Don't understand why the culprits weren't charged with anything yet.  The stolen items were found in their houses via a search warrant, they have video of them in the art gallery going in empty-handed and walking out with something, possible Facebook id, etc.   What other proof do they need? 

This is just a wild guess, that Carnival doesn't want potential negative PR if, during a trial, discovery showed that the artwork was wildly overvalued and really worth less than $100.  I've seen rabid discussions about the value of Carnival cruise artwork and...

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

This is just a wild guess, that Carnival doesn't want potential negative PR if, during a trial, discovery showed that the artwork was wildly overvalued and really worth less than $100.  I've seen rabid discussions about the value of Carnival cruise artwork and...

But who would be prosecuting?  The items didn’t belong to Carnival but to Park West.  Perhaps it is PW that doesn’t want any more publicity….about inflated values…. All Carnival would have lost is their commission if the items had sold.  EM

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

This is just a wild guess, that Carnival doesn't want potential negative PR if, during a trial, discovery showed that the artwork was wildly overvalued and really worth less than $100.  I've seen rabid discussions about the value of Carnival cruise artwork and...

 

26 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

But who would be prosecuting?  The items didn’t belong to Carnival but to Park West.  Perhaps it is PW that doesn’t want any more publicity….about inflated values…. All Carnival would have lost is their commission if the items had sold.  EM

But if it is a criminal trial, it is neither Carnival or Park West that is prosecuting.

 

Just for argument's sake and to pick a venue for the prosecution, let us say it is Baltimore as that was the port. It would be the State of Maryland versus the defendants.

[MisterOJ2]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

 

But if it is a criminal trial, it is neither Carnival or Park West that is prosecuting.

 

Just for argument's sake and to pick a venue for the prosecution, let us say it is Baltimore as that was the port. It would be the State of Maryland versus the defendants.

Even so, prosecutors would need someone from Park West to testify in a criminal trial. Because if no one from that company will state on the record, the value of the items stolen, it's pretty hard to prosecute someone for theft. If the state is going to try and get someone for grand larceny and they can't prove the value of the items stolen - that case is going nowhere. Prosecutors know that and won't file charges without that information.

[Old Fart Cruisers]

It's amazing how people actually think they are getting something valuable from Park West Gallery.  Apparently, there are a bunch of people willing to shell out a lot of money for these useless, mass produced 'ARTWORKS', or Park West wouldn't be auctioning their stuff on over 100 ships on Carnival, Celebrity, Holland America, Norwegian, Regent Seven Seas and Royal Caribbean. 

But then, as P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"

[BlerkOne]

11 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

But who would be prosecuting?  The items didn’t belong to Carnival but to Park West.  Perhaps it is PW that doesn’t want any more publicity….about inflated values…. All Carnival would have lost is their commission if the items had sold.  EM

Petty theft is likely all they could document.

[ChinaShrek]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:02 AM, AllgoodOnTheRoad said:

They probably took two Thomas Kinkade Amazon prints. 13k is just what Park West valued them at. 

Are these even real, original paintings by Thomas Kinkade?

[pe4all]

5 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Are these even real, original paintings by Thomas Kinkade?

The article says they are lucite sculptures.  Out of experience (we actually priced on on Las Olas Blvd in Fort Lauderdale last week when we were there - eagle in lucite, different artist) these are incredibly expensive/over-priced.  The one we were looking at was "discounted" at $5,500 - we promptly turned around and walked out - lol.  Upon doing an internet search we found it for $2,800 - still a bit over what we were willing to pay.  So I don't doubt the "cost" of the ones that were stolen and recovered.

Edited November 4, 2023 by pe4all

[Pellaz]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:29 PM, Old Fart Cruisers said:

It's amazing how people actually think they are getting something valuable from Park West Gallery.  Apparently, there are a bunch of people willing to shell out a lot of money for these useless, mass produced 'ARTWORKS', or Park West wouldn't be auctioning their stuff on over 100 ships on Carnival, Celebrity, Holland America, Norwegian, Regent Seven Seas and Royal Caribbean. 

But then, as P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"

 

My mom and her husband were included in those "suckers."   They bought a lot of art pieces aboard various cruise ships and lines.  Personally, I thought most of them were garish and kinda jarring, but I don't collect "fine art," just fantasy and sci-fi prints and artist-proofs.  

 

Came time for the estate sale.  The artwork was discounted pretty heavily...and still, NOT ONE piece sold.    😮  

 

 

[mz-s]

6 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

My mom and her husband were included in those "suckers."   They bought a lot of art pieces aboard various cruise ships and lines.  Personally, I thought most of them were garish and kinda jarring, but I don't collect "fine art," just fantasy and sci-fi prints and artist-proofs.  

 

Came time for the estate sale.  The artwork was discounted pretty heavily...and still, NOT ONE piece sold.    😮  

 

There are a lot of things in life that are expensive to buy but next to worthless in resale, particularly collectibles.

[thundercrack]

8 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

My mom and her husband were included in those "suckers."   They bought a lot of art pieces aboard various cruise ships and lines.  Personally, I thought most of them were garish and kinda jarring, but I don't collect "fine art," just fantasy and sci-fi prints and artist-proofs.  

 

Came time for the estate sale.  The artwork was discounted pretty heavily...and still, NOT ONE piece sold.    😮  

 

 

I am also in the boat (no pun intended😊) of your mom and husband and have bought quite a few pieces from the Park West Auction.  Mostly Thomas Kinkade and Disney prints,  but have bought others.  I would not consider myself or your mom and husband “suckers”, If I see something I think that I would get many years enjoyment from, at what I am willing to pay, I will buy it.  I have never considered them an investment, and am very realistic that they would not be worth much if my kids decide to sell after our passing (which I don’t think will happen as they already called dibs on the ones they want).

 

I think it is pretty funny that people call art buying cruisers “suckers”, and I am not saying you do Pellaz, but think that purchasing a Cheers package, of which you would only get a weeks worth on enjoyment from (if they even remember) is smart.  To me they are the suckers, but to each their own.  I have no qualms on how/what people spend money on, it is the value to them.

 

I’m sure everyone in their life has made a purchase that other would think foolish, can’t we just keep the negative opinions to ourselves?

[Pellaz]

2 hours ago, thundercrack said:

I am also in the boat (no pun intended😊) of your mom and husband and have bought quite a few pieces from the Park West Auction.  Mostly Thomas Kinkade and Disney prints,  but have bought others.  I would not consider myself or your mom and husband “suckers”, If I see something I think that I would get many years enjoyment from, at what I am willing to pay, I will buy it.  I have never considered them an investment, and am very realistic that they would not be worth much if my kids decide to sell after our passing (which I don’t think will happen as they already called dibs on the ones they want).

 

Oh, absolutely.  My mom and her hubby presumably got many years of enjoyment out of the artwork because they were hanging on the walls of the "great room," and the family-room downstairs.  I doubt they were looking into them as an investment, either...and yes, calling those purchsers "suckers" is indeed a bit too harsh.

 

2 hours ago, thundercrack said:

I’m sure everyone in their life has made a purchase that other would think foolish, can’t we just keep the negative opinions to ourselves?

I think the main focus here is not the quality or resale value, but the fact that Park West probably inflates the perceived value of the artwork.  

[hurricane0226]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:32 AM, sparks1093 said:

Probably tussling over jurisdiction and who gets to prosecute.

 

As for Carnival's potential loss, wouldn't it be zero? The Art Gallery is an independent business as I understand it. 

 

This does remind me of a short story that I once read. International jewel thief goes on a cruise and an expensive piece of jewelry is stolen from a museum in a port. He is an obvious suspect and is searched at Customs. They find nothing and let him go. The following week he re-boards the same ship on a Cruise to Nowhere, stays in the same cabin and recovers the item from where he had hidden it. Waltzes off the ship since there is no Customs to worry about. Neat story back in the day but I doubt that it would be that feasible nowadays (since Cruises to Nowhere have gone the way of the Dodo bird, among other things). 

And the oil can beer (Fosters)

[BlerkOne]

13 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

 

Came time for the estate sale.  The artwork was discounted pretty heavily...and still, NOT ONE piece sold.    😮  

 

 

Perhaps you should have given away free (cheap) champagne?

[Pellaz]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps you should have given away free (cheap) champagne?

 

Heck, for all I know, they might have!  😄  

[ldubs]

They don't really prosecute when the actual value of the items makes it a misdemeanor.  😀

 

Ok, OK, It is just a joke!  😀

[john91498]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

They don't really prosecute when the actual value of the items makes it a misdemeanor.  😀

 

Ok, OK, It is just a joke!  😀

 

or a slap on the wrist in this case 😅