Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[toad455]

I'd bet that the Vision's next two cruises will be out of Bayonne and have an altered itinerary.

 

Carnival's in a odd situation since I don't think the Legend can stay in Manhattan for a month+ and do their 7-day Bahamas cruises.

[BND]

1 minute ago, toad455 said:

I'd bet that the Vision's next two cruises will be out of Bayonne and have an altered itinerary.

 

Carnival's in a odd situation since I don't think the Legend can stay in Manhattan for a month+ and do their 7-day Bahamas cruises.

It takes just about the same amount of time to sail from Bayonne as it does from Baltimore.  From Bayonne, the ship is quickly at sea. From Baltimore, you have to traverse the Bay which takes hours.

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, toad455 said:

I'd bet that the Vision's next two cruises will be out of Bayonne and have an altered itinerary.

 

Carnival's in a odd situation since I don't think the Legend can stay in Manhattan for a month+ and do their 7-day Bahamas cruises.

If Bayonne has docking available with parking then there should be no problem for Royal.

 

The main difficulty will be passengers who are not driving to change their flights to Newark.

 

Royal is very conscious about their revenue stream and corporate might not want to abandon sixteen nights of cruising cabin revenue, onboard spending, and shore excursions.

 

The Vision has been sailing at total capacity for months which is about a bit over 2,400 passengers. That is quite a bit of revenue lost.

 

@Ourusualbeach made some good logical arguments earlier about why the next two cruises should be canceled before dry dock.

 

I think the Vision will go for Bayonne for two cruises, go to dry dock, while Royal regroups.

[CarpeCerevisi]

I was on the Nordic Empress (Empress of the Seas) that sailed from NYC on 9/9/2001.  After 9/11 the port was closed so they brought us back to Philadelphia.  The cruise line helped rebook people's flights to go out of Philadelphia and had buses available to bring people back to the NYC pier.  It was very well organized given the short time they had available (the cruise was a 7 night to Bermuda).

 

I think the Bayonne option for Vision would be the best given that there are three major airports and easy access to I95 and NJ Turnpike for buses down to Baltimore.  I'm sure Royal Caribbean is looking at the logistics of various alternatives as well as getting an emergency exemption of the PVSA.

[toad455]

Two people have just been recovered from the waters alive.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, toad455 said:

Two people have just been recovered from the waters alive.

In addition to the two already found?

[puppycanducruise]

3 minutes ago, toad455 said:

Two people have just been recovered from the waters alive.

Great news!

[toad455]

5 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

In addition to the two already found?

 

Yes, it was just announced.

[mo&fran]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

I don't know who this blogger is, or what his maritime experience is, but it has some errors in his analysis.

 

The most glaring error is when he says that the black smoke coming from the ship indicates an "engine problem".  This is not correct.  The type of diesel engines used on ships like this, are connected directly to the propeller, and are required to stop whenever the propeller is needed to be stopped, or reversed.  Therefore, the engine needs to stop and restart when going from ahead to astern, and this always results in a cloud of black smoke when the engine starts.  Also, if the engine is immediately placed to a "full astern" bell, the black smoke will continue until the turbocharger catches up with the air needed by the engine at that high load.  And, the engine that drives the propeller is not the engine that provides electricity to the ship, so when the generator engine failed, causing the black out, the "main engine" that drives the propeller stops as well, so when power comes back on, it restarts, causing the black smoke again.

 

He also claims that by backing down (going stern to stop the ship), the ship will veer to one side or another (and this is correct), but that if they continued to allow the ship to glide forward without propulsion, that they would have had "some control".  This is also not correct.  A traditional rudder loses effectiveness when the speed of the ship through the water is less than 5 knots (that's why ships use thrusters to swing ships at the dock, and tugs to push the ship when operating at low speed along the dock).  So, there would have been almost no benefit from the rudder when coasting forward.

 

Steering would also not be lost when the power went out.  One of the two electro-hydraulic steering systems is powered by the emergency generator (which comes on automatically when the ship loses power), and when in confined waters (under a pilot's orders), this is the steering system that would have been in use, just because this could have happened.

 

I can't remember other things he said, but it may come to me later.

I was surprised that the tugs didn't continue to accompany the ship, at least to get the ship past the bridge.

[njkate]

4 hours ago, mo&fran said:

I just realized, this must be the I95 bypass around Baltimore we all use when driving back and forth from Florida to the north.

It’s a heavily traveled hazmat route as hazmat even propane tanks on RV’s can’t use the tunnels

[njkate]

3 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

Port options and alternatives are getting pretty slim pickings if Norfolk is out of play.

 

Philadelphia is out of play.

 

Baltimore is obviously out of play with no idea when it will be available again.

 

Bayonne looks like the lone possibility if the scheduling allows it.

Farther away but Jacksonville or Orlando if NY port is congested 

[BND]

38 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

If Bayonne has docking available with parking then there should be no problem for Royal.

 

The main difficulty will be passengers who are not driving to change their flights to Newark.

 

Royal is very conscious about their revenue stream and corporate might not want to abandon sixteen nights of cruising cabin revenue, onboard spending, and shore excursions.

 

The Vision has been sailing at total capacity for months which is about a bit over 2,400 passengers. That is quite a bit of revenue lost.

 

@Ourusualbeach made some good logical arguments earlier about why the next two cruises should be canceled before dry dock.

 

I think the Vision will go for Bayonne for two cruises, go to dry dock, while Royal regroups.

We hope to know soon about a possible port change.  We drive to Baltimore and normally take Amtrak to Newark.  We'd be willing to go two days early instead of one so we can prob use Amtrak. We prefer Business class or Acela.   If we're cancelled I think we'll go to Ocean City or another beach for a bit instead.  

Edited March 26 by BND

[RobInMN]

Living in the Twin Cities, this reminds me most of the I-35W bridge collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge

 

Collapsed August 1, 2007. They immediately got to work and I think by the next day they had everyone they needed in a room and made a plan using design-build project planning. Awarded a contract Sept 19, 2007, and the new bridge was completed 3 months ahead of schedule Sept 18, 2008.

There was a MNDOT manager that was a frequent contributor to a local political pod cast (had been doing so long before the collapse) that gave updates. But since then also gave in-depth accounts of the process in the immediate hours, and days that was really interesting. Unfortunately, with the podcast defunct, I don't think those recordings exist anymore.

 

Obviously, this is a lot larger span with a lot more serious economic impacts, but the immediacy of getting the bridge replaced is very similar. 

[Twenty2020]

1 hour ago, Jenna1983 said:

People are calling Royal already? Sheesh. The only people who should even be concerned in this moment or near future are really the people on a Baltimore sailing now. I’m with you- I don’t believe I’ll be sailing end of September and really…I’ll survive. 
 

My brother lives in Baltimore. I have been across this bridge numerous times on my way to Annapolis. I was excited to sail under this bridge end of summer. I am more concerned about the loss of life, the economic ramifications from loss of jobs at the Port, not being able to move hazardous waste, import/export of cars, etc. I’d say cruising is at the bottom of the importance at the moment to those people who are calling!

 

Shipping lanes will be back open quickly. The port traffic is too important economically. Obviously rebuilding the bridge will take years but I see no reason why ships wouldn't be sailing relatively soon. 

[njkate]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, slightly of a lower priority (sarcasm), is the fact that Baltimore is the 9th largest port in the US, and the largest port for importation of cars on the East Coast.  Then there is the container traffic, which is going to affect the US economy for a few months.

Hopefully container ships loaded with cars can be diverted to Brunswick GA and the ports of NY&NJ, Port of Savannah can handle some until Port of Baltimore is cleared of debris

[Tatka]

5 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

That was my initial thought.  They could fly them home from Orlando, Miami or Fort Lauderdale, but I doubt logistics would be any easier.

Many cars are parked in Baltimore.. including ours. Otherwise I’d have hoped for Bayonne. 

[alfaeric]

NY should be the best option if they can’t clean it up quickly- Port Liberty supports two ships in the summer with an Oasis class ship being added. So the vision should not be a problem briefly. It’s a 4 hour bus ride, which we have done to get to port Liberty from DC. 
 

I wager it will be cleaned up quickly given the total marine traffic that uses that passage. 

[BND]

44 minutes ago, toad455 said:

Two people have just been recovered from the waters alive.

No, just the original two from early this morning.  No new rescues.

[nelblu]

2 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

How do we efficiently get 2,400 passengers from the Port of Bayonne to the Port of Baltimore?

Not familiar with the Baltimore harbor and wondering any possibility of tendering passengers to shore.

[Angelboy301]

Royal Caribbean sent the following statement to news outlets:

 

“We are deeply saddened by the tragedy and collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge and extend our heartfelt prayers to all those impacted. We are closely monitoring the situation, and our port logistics team is currently working on alternatives for Vision of the Seas’ ongoing and upcoming sailings."

 

My best guess is that they re-deploy to Cape Liberty as they have (and control) the infrastructure there.

 

Carnival’s statement was much less reassuring:

"Our thoughts are with those affected by this tragic accident. It is premature for us to comment on possible impacts to upcoming sailings," 

 

They don’t have an easy solution.

 

Edited March 26 by Angelboy301
Font

[BND]

Just now, nelblu said:

Not familiar with the Baltimore harbor and wondering any possibility of tendering passengers to shore.

No.  The bridge is not right next to the port.  

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, nelblu said:

Not familiar with the Baltimore harbor and wondering any possibility of tendering passengers to shore.

A bit far from the closest point the ship could get from the pier and probably not a practical solution.

[RobInMN]

6 minutes ago, Twenty2020 said:

 

Shipping lanes will be back open quickly. The port traffic is too important economically. Obviously rebuilding the bridge will take years but I see no reason why ships wouldn't be sailing relatively soon. 

For the I-35W bridge collapse, it took 1 week before they started removing debris and vehicles, and it took almost 3 months to complete demolition and removal to start the new build. And that was for a 1900 ft bridge. The main span of this bridge is 1200 feet, Total length 1.6 mi

Granted, the importance on removing the debris wo get freight traffic going was not a concern on the I-35W bridge, but I would not be surprised if its close to that.

[BND]

Just now, Angelboy301 said:

Royal Caribbean sent the following statement to news outlets:

 

“We are deeply saddened by the tragedy and collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge and extend our heartfelt prayers to all those impacted. We are closely monitoring the situation, and our port logistics team is currently working on alternatives for Vision of the Seas’ ongoing and upcoming sailings."

 

My best guess is that they re-deploy to Cape Liberty as they have (and control) the infrastructure there.

 

Carnival’s statement was much less reassuring:

"Our thoughts are with those affected by this tragic accident. It is premature for us to comment on possible impacts to upcoming sailings," 

 

They don’t have an easy solution.

 

Anthem is currently the only ship going in and out of Bayonne and the schedule shows availability on 4,12 and 20 April.  Anthem is not scheduled on those days.

[KmomChicago]

12 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Not familiar with the Baltimore harbor and wondering any possibility of tendering passengers to shore.

It’s a long trip from that bridge to port; I think the logistics would be difficult with a lot of the debris still there. 

Edited March 26 by KmomChicago