Horrible Story, What was he thinking?

[not-enough-cruising]

56 minutes ago, aml3679 said:

Sorry, but in my humble opinion, the moderators should lock this thread.  All in all, it was a tragedy that should have never have happened.  It turns out the grandfather is innocent, there was an open pane of glass in the children's play area.

For heavens sale, it’s not a children’s play area. It’s basically a smoking lounge. 

[Pushka]

36 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

It is still very obvious when there where glass is and is not.

 

But either way, there is no way that the “ledge” could be mistaken as a seat. (I have read that also - that he thought it was a seat.)

Read it in a police interview or just the media?  Unless you are a smoker you probably wouldn’t even know where the smoker area is. I stumbled across it on the Equinox because as a non smoker I never bothered to see where it was. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Pushka

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Read it in a police interview or just the media?  Unless you are a smoker you probably wouldn’t even know where the smoker area is. I stumbled across it on the Equinox because as a non smoker I never bothered to see where it was. 

 

Read it in reports quoting the lawyer. 

 

When you walk walk all around the pool deck, you quickly find the smoking area and know which area to avoid. They are more prominent on RCCL than X from what I gather. This is the first I have seen “smoking area” mentioned. Most have said “kids play area” and that is pretty separated from the smoking area.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Read it in reports quoting the lawyer. 

 

When you walk walk all around the pool deck, you quickly find the smoking area and know which area to avoid. They are more prominent on RCCL than X from what I gather. This is the first I have seen “smoking area” mentioned. Most have said “kids play area” and that is pretty separated from the smoking area.

The lawyer’s narrative is obviously tilted to tell a specific story, and so far a lot of that story has had several holes punched in it. 

Does not make it any less tragic, but facts are facts surrounding location and architectural aspects of the ship. 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

6 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The lawyer’s narrative is obviously tilted to tell a specific story, and so far a lot of that story has had several holes punched in it. 

Does not make it any less tragic, but facts are facts surrounding location and architectural aspects of the ship. 

 

Yes, they are. And those windows are designed to open, are tinted so it is clear when they are open, do NOT have a ledge for sitting on, and exist on at least 2 classes of RCCL ships (Freedom and Radiance) and I have not seen other reports of babies or anyone else falling out of them.

 

The first stage of grief is denial, and by immediately seeking to file a lawsuit (or even retaining a lawyer) they are able to deny that any of their choices had anything to do with this tragedy.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Yes, they are. And those windows are designed to open, are tinted so it is clear when they are open, do NOT have a ledge for sitting on, and exist on at least 2 classes of RCCL ships (Freedom and Radiance) and I have not seen other reports of babies or anyone else falling out of them.

 

The first stage of grief is denial, and by immediately seeking to file a lawsuit (or even retaining a lawyer) they are able to deny that any of their choices had anything to do with this tragedy.

Well said

[Jammu2]

Has to be somebody elses fault. Anything to avoid your responsibility for a tragic, preventable mistake.

[helen haywood]

Even if the grandfather were short sighted he would feel the breeze and realize the difference between an open window and a closed one.  Even if the window had been closed I don't think it's a good idea to perch an infant on something narrow and high up.  

[JFontaine]

All of these people who say the grandfather should have done something different, haven't you been in a situation that a split second later could have ended in tragedy?  Stepping off a curb, driving a car, pot left on the stove too long, turned your back on a child in a pool or ocean, a drink too many?  

[JBare]

2 minutes ago, JFontaine said:

All of these people who say the grandfather should have done something different, haven't you been in a situation that a split second later could have ended in tragedy?  Stepping off a curb, driving a car, pot left on the stove too long, turned your back on a child in a pool or ocean, a drink too many?  

 

Many times, but never attempted to blame anyone else.

[pa-annie]

1 minute ago, JFontaine said:

All of these people who say the grandfather should have done something different, haven't you been in a situation that a split second later could have ended in tragedy?  Stepping off a curb, driving a car, pot left on the stove too long, turned your back on a child in a pool or ocean, a drink too many?  

 

Thought I read or saw somewhere that he was also watching two other grandchildren, maybe contributed to the loss of focus?

[Mynki]

There are pictures of the grandfather and detas of his occupation all over the Internet. I don't know if he is visually impaired or not. If he is im dam sure that will come out in any subsequent investigation. But based on what I have seen and read I very much doubt he is. 

 

Even if if the windows were not tinted at that distance it should still be easy enough to detect. 

 

Pointless playing blame games though. All affected have been served a life sentence in my view. 

[helen haywood]

37 minutes ago, JFontaine said:

All of these people who say the grandfather should have done something different, haven't you been in a situation that a split second later could have ended in tragedy?  Stepping off a curb, driving a car, pot left on the stove too long, turned your back on a child in a pool or ocean, a drink too many?  

 

 All I'm trying to say is that to blame Royal in any way is not valid.  It absolutely was a tragic accident.  And yes, accidents can happen anytime; I'm so sorry for all involved that this happened to them.  

[kearney]

I suspect that there are windows in this area that open, to help keep the temperatures down. Keep in mind this area is outdoors... so there is no air conditioning... it is like being in a green house... so windows allow a breeze to keep the area comfortable. I wonder if they were kept closed... if there would be a risk of ...say heat stroke... for those staying in that area...(napping)?  Now they could put up bars... but is that really practical? Who wants to be on a ship with bars. Curious how hot the area gets in the Caribbean sun when all the windows are closed. 

 

When you are parents you are always on guard... but once you have become a grandparent who likely only sees grandchildren on occasion... you forget... you home is likely no longer child proof... but putting a child on any railing... even one only a few feet over, say a tile floor could still result in a child's death.. if a child falls and hit its head.   I think it is somewhat natural to try to find someone, something to blame.... he obviously loved the child... clearly a momentary but fatal lapse in judgement.... is hard to accept. I just feel so terribly sad. 

[LovetheSea]

So sad for everyone involved. This article is the best source I have found for what happened. So different from first reports

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family-seeks-answers-after-toddler-dies-in-11-floor-fall-from-cruise-ship/ar-AAE5onI?ocid=spartanntp

 

 

[DYKWIA]

46 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

 

 All I'm trying to say is that to blame Royal in any way is not valid.  It absolutely was a tragic accident.  And yes, accidents can happen anytime; ..... 

 

Isn't that what Inquests are for?

We might have a gut feel for the rights and wrongs in a tragic event, but without a full investigation I find it impossible to say conclusively who is or who is not at fault and by how much

[hiccups]

25 minutes ago, LovetheSea said:

So sad for everyone involved. This article is the best source I have found for what happened. So different from first reports

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family-seeks-answers-after-toddler-dies-in-11-floor-fall-from-cruise-ship/ar-AAE5onI?ocid=spartanntp

 

 

It's actually quite biased towards the family wanting to blame Royal Caribbean, IMO.   "Why was a window open?"  Um, because it's A WINDOW?  This is a terrible, tragic event, but it is not Royal Caribbean's fault the grandfather placed the child on a railing in front of an open window.

[wwcruisers]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

When you are parents you are always on guard... but once you have become a grandparent who likely only sees grandchildren on occasion... you forget...

 

While I agree with your overall sentiment, as a grandmother, I take issue with this particular premise. We ARE those grandparents who only see their kids' family occasionally (thank goodness for Skype!) We recently took our son, DDIL, and nearly 3-year-old DGD on Freedom's sister-ship, Independence. We chose Indy because it's a GREAT ship for kids. We booked our aft-facing cabin specifically for its large balcony, where the whole family could gather, and the little one could play. However, from past experience, I remembered that those balcony enclosures are not glass, like most other cabins. They are bars, which could easily be climbed -- or squeezed through -- by an intrepid toddler.

 

So, we had a 2-grown-up rule: Whenever our DGD was out on the balcony, she had to have at least two adults with her. I did take the time to explain to her, on day one, that 'we' do not climb on the railings -- to her credit -- she never tried. But, her grandfather and I never forgot that our number one job was to keep her safe -- no matter where we were.

 

And, while I don't see that RC did anything culpable, my heart breaks for that poor old man -- and the rest of that little angel's family. 😪

 

[cgolf2]

While I feel very bad for the family and especially the Grandpa for this tragic accident, these types of lawsuits concern me.

 

I have seen other cruise lines settle out of court before even though they would have won in court just to keep the publicity low. They also changed policies after that to protect themselves.

 

I hope that the RCCL/Celebrity ships don't react by keeping these windows closed in the future. I can only imagine how warm some of the areas would become without the ventilation. Also where does it stop, will all railings need to be taller in the future including verandas? 

 

Just once I would like to see a big corp, fight one of these lawsuits (if it happens) instead of settling out of court.

[grandgeezer]

The cruise line shouldn't worry about it, they must have something in their all mighty cruise contract that covers this. The have disclaimers that make them not responsible for any other situation that they might be culpable for.

[CardRock]

I would imagine that those windows will be kept closed from now on. 

[hcat]

In fairness to the grieving family,  and for the sake of decency   why don't we let this thread go!

 

Prayers and sympathy are more appropriate ...As parents and  involved grandparents  our hearts ache ....

♡♡♡

Edited July 10, 2019 by hcat

[Nymich]

49 minutes ago, CardRock said:

I would imagine that those windows will be kept closed from now on. 

Yes they will be forced to take that action as a way to prevent this from happening again.

Their own investigation will determine that they HAVE to have them closed.  Bear in mind I am not holding 

anyone responsible I just know how internal accident investigations work having done many of them.

[Nymich]

11 minutes ago, hcat said:

In fairness to the grieving family,  and for the sake of decency   why don't we let this thread go!

 

Prayers and sympathy are more appropriate ...As parents and  involved grandparents  our hearts ache ....

♡♡♡

No one is being forced to read or post.  

[Pushka]

I don’t think the family would be in any place to be reading cruise travel forums. And given the awful result then people might like to figure out what happened and how to prevent it in the future. And we all have complete brain fades that give us a T junction and can go either way. Sometimes we are just plain lucky our brain fades don’t go in the wrong direction.