Masks probably required

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

I had a boss once who had his Masters in Statistical computing, he told me more than once that you can show just about anything you want when you start playing around with the numbers.  And until China is truly counted all numbers are off.

And China will never be truly counted.

[hazence]

19 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree with that. I’ve been saying that as well. But we don’t know what we don’t know. It’s a Catch 22. 
 

I was looking at statistics regarding numbers tested and positive. Most States seem to be right around 10% or less. Some States are significantly higher. 

 

But your absolute numbers aren’t reliable either. It may be 6% of those infected...but how many died WITH COVID rather than of COVID? There’s been a problem of someone who is within days of dying of cancer...testing positive after death...and they mark it a COVID death.

 

Also we haven’t tested enough, do not know how many asympomatic people have had it...and once they can be counted, that will drive the percentage down.
 

BUt again, testing positive does not mean you are sick. I look at the hospitalization  rates to positive cases and then to deaths. My physician daughter at a large regional,SC hospital has had only one COVID hospitalization, 57 positives, zero deaths.

 

Then there’s this report from U.K. 

today.

 

“Let's look at the young group. People are anxious about children, and there's 10 million under 15s in England and Wales, how many of those have died? Had Covid on their deaths out of these 30,000 have died? Two out of 10 million.”

 

 

“If we look at under 25s, there're 17 million of them in the country where we have 26 deaths recorded,” he said, suggesting a similar risk would be seen in “a couple of days” in general accidents and sudden deaths. 

However, he said the risk for the over 90s was 10,000 times as high, with more than one per cent of over 90s having died from Covid-19.

“That's a substantial proportion. That is 10,000 times the risk of the younger people,” he said, saying the sharp gradient of risk meant that it doubled roughly every six or seven years with age.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

Edited May 11, 2020 by hazence

[Ocean Boy]

25 minutes ago, broberts said:

The death rate is not material to the dead or their loved ones. 

 

 

That is true for every illness that takes a life. But overall, death rates can be quite meaningful.

[xpcdoojk]

14 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

I'm in 3 to 4 stores. They ran out of the wipes for the shopping carts 3 weeks ago. That's when I started buying Armor All wipes. They always have them in BJ's. I hope people don't catch on and create a shortage of those. Now they are limiting 1 flour and 1 sugar for each customer. It's becoming the Hunger Games.

 

Filled two hummingbird feeders for the season today and bought sugar at Aldi’s this afternoon.  Normally I buy a 4 pound bag of sugar 3 times a year.

 

jc

[HBE4]

5 hours ago, KsucAts said:

 

Plus all deaths counted are deaths with Covid and not deaths from Covid.  If a person in hospice with cancer dies of cancer and happens to test positive for covid, that counts as a covid death.  It will be amazing to see how covid has cured cancer and other diseases when comparing the number of deaths for those to prior years.  

 

It's generally accepted that the Covid-19 will hasten the persons death, i.e. the person with cancer would still be a live today if it were not for Covid-19.

 

You can learn more here:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85925

[HBE4]

What's considered an acceptable death rate?

 

10,000 people died in drunk driving accidents last year. That is out of 225 million licensed drivers. Is that an acceptable rate?

 

What happens if someone survives that accident but dies of a heart attack on the way to the hospital. A heart attack that would not have happened if it were not for the accident. Does that death show up in the DWI stats? 

 

We only know what we know.  1.3 million cases and 80,000 deaths. Untold number of unreported cases and deaths. Everything else is pure speculation.

 

 

[Biker19]

4 hours ago, HBE4 said:

What's considered an acceptable death rate?

For the gov't, it's when the economic loss is greater than $10M per person (that's the value of a human being - according to the accountants).

[Iamcruzin]

9 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

Filled two hummingbird feeders for the season today and bought sugar at Aldi’s this afternoon.  Normally I buy a 4 pound bag of sugar 3 times a year.

 

jc

Flour and Sugar aren’t an issue for us either but people are baking like made since we have been at home. Cake mix is always gone too. 

[Ocean Boy]

21 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Flour and Sugar aren’t an issue for us either but people are baking like made since we have been at home. Cake mix is always gone too. 

Pasta has been hard hit in my town. I guess low carb diets are out for now.

[hazence]

Distressed industries have their work cut out for them.  Our discussions here show that clearly. I wonder if they read and reflect on that.
 

Many people living in highly affected areas, rightfully fear the virus. They personally know people who have died and personally know people have suffered with this virus. If they still have a job, if they work for the government, if they are well off...they have little fear of being personally affected economically. They probably know people who have lost jobs, but their sympathy for these people pales in comparison to the grief they feel for those that have died. 
 

When people you actually know are dying, your fear level is naturally escalated for yourself and your loved ones. You see people without masks as a real danger. When you read statistical projections, your reality...where you live,...tells you if the Chinese deaths could be counted, the death rate would be much more than 6%. Pessimistic articles predicting a second wave, seem very possible after what you’ve seen.
 

I was surprised at first when I talked about my experience that people initially thoughtI was lying about my “magical zip code” or they assured me that lax face mask practices here would soon punish us with a wave of death and infection. But, though that may theoretically be possible, it hasn’t happened yet and we are at least two months into this pandemic.

 

I see articles and projections that make me optimistic for the future. Maybe with testing, we will learn the death rate was more in line with a bad flu season...at least for the majority of younger healthy people. That’s possible or the Chinese deaths pushing it upward.  We just don’t know.
 

But I do know people hanging on by a thread financially. One self employed working Mom with no babysitter and a laid off husband , a hairdresser/ friend who can’t make the rent, the appeals from the Food Bank, the elderly in the rusted trailers scared about what they hear about food getting scarce. I have an emotional connection to that...because their lives are real too. They are the REAL people living thru the destruction of our economy. They are not Wall Street bankers or secure Federal workers.or tech guys working from home.They are not just imagined by accountants. I think some of the once thriving small towns around here are going to be ghost towns if things don’t change soon. 

The only thing I’m sure of is that this is an ungodly mess. I hate the political blame game on both sides because, if we are honest with ourselves, we have medical experts and economic experts and “all the kings horses and all the kings men”...and they all really have an incredible puzzle as to how to put things together again.

 

,
 

 

[hazence]

Someone asked about yeast...my friend discovered you can freeze it. She and I bought a two pound bag of Red Star on Amazon and are dividing it and freezing most of it.

[Iamcruzin]

19 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Pasta has been hard hit in my town. I guess low carb diets are out for now.

Pasta, and frozen vegetables were the first to disappear People were stocking up on non perishables  before the stay at home order. Then when people started losing jobs pasta, rice, beans and soup disappeared as you can make an inexpensive meal with these items. Now the meat packing plants are closed due to covid so all specialty diets are off. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

26 minutes ago, hazence said:

my “magical zip code”

I’ll just leave it like that

[hazence]

3 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’ll just leave it like that

Look at the SC map yourself. 
 

https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-diseases/viruses/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/sc-cases-county-zip-code-covid-19

 

See the white areas?

There are numerous free zip codes. 

Im sorry if that upsets you.

[hazence]

People who are pessimistic want to stay pessimistic. People who are optimistic want to stay optimistic. Round and round we go. Annoyed that we cannot bring each other UP...or DOWN.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:46 PM, Ourusualbeach said:

Just announced that masks will be required for crew and probably by guests initially and maybe until there is a vaccine. 

 

So returning to the OP's topic.

   Mandatory masks onboard will present quite an issue for the flag-waving "freedom-fighters" we've seen snarling & chanting outside statehouses lately.
   Because cruise ships aren't governed by the U.S. Constitution. So a lot of the sneering "I don't wear no stink' mask" warriors we see in supermarkets and convenience stores will have a problem on the ship - where they'll be required to spend many hours a day with masks if they wish to be outside their cabin. 
  I can see a lot of that bunch getting ugly and nasty about it with fellow cruisers as well as crew members. Yet another reason I wouldn't go any the first rounds of guinea pig cruises - it just won't be a relaxing vacation.

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

17 minutes ago, hazence said:

Look at the SC map yourself

And what Royal Cruise ships sail out of South Carolina?

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

  I can see a lot of that bunch getting ugly and nasty about it with fellow cruisers as well as crew members. Yet another reason I wouldn't go any the first rounds of guinea pig cruises - it just won't be a relaxing vacation.

 

I would certainly not buck the cruise lines rules. If they are not to my liking I will just cancel. I'm not spending my time and money to go on vacation to be unhappy. 

[hazence]

14 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

And what Royal Cruise ships sail out of South Carolina?

 

It’s just Carnival, isnt it?  RCCL visits but starts in Baltimore.

 

I read an article this weekend about the trend could now shift from the mega liners to small ships.  Maybe not all the bells and whistles just the ocean experience.
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/scenic-group-orders-luxury-cruise-yachts-during-pandemic/

 

“The Scenic Group, which owns the luxury expedition yacht Scenic Eclipse, has begun construction on its second vessel, Eclipse II in Croatia.

The Australian-owned company has also made a commitment to deliver four more luxury yachts after that within the next six years.

If a general trend towards the market favouring smaller ships in the post Covid-19 world emerges, then 228-passenger Scenic Eclipse and her sister ships could stand to benefit.”

 

snip

 

“The company has also committed to building its first 50-cabin yacht under the Emerald Yacht Cruises brand, Emerald Azzurra, which is due to launch in the Mediterranean in summer 2021, which aims to attract a younger, more active clientele with its “affordable” price point.“

 

Sounds wonderful to me.

 

 

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, hazence said:

Sounds wonderful to me.

The cost won't.

[hazence]

Paying more is probably going to be the new normal...one way or the other.

[Milwaukee Eight]

10 minutes ago, hazence said:

Paying more is probably going to be the new normal...one way or the other.

We would pay more for a ship that sails 25-50% of capacity, after COVID19. 

[L454S]

8 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We would pay more for a ship that sails 25-50% of capacity, after COVID19. 

 

As long as I don't have to wear a mask. If you are worried, you wear a mask.

[Milwaukee Eight]

Just now, L454S said:

 

As long as I don't have to wear a mask. If you are worried, you wear a mask.

Unless wearing an N95 type mask or better, wearing a mask is not to protect the wearer. It’s to help protect those around you from you. If cruisers refuse to wear a mask if required, then it does little good to have a requirement. 
 

Most medical masks are worn to protect the patient and not the wearer (N95+ excluded). 
 

The boss when she is rounding, wears a regular mask. When she goes into a quarantine area, she suits up in PPE/N95. 

[HBE4]

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

For the gov't, it's when the economic loss is greater than $10M per person (that's the value of a human being - according to the accountants).

 

I am very, very under insured.  

 

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

Pasta, and frozen vegetables were the first to disappear People were stocking up on non perishables  before the stay at home order. Then when people started losing jobs pasta, rice, beans and soup disappeared as you can make an inexpensive meal with these items. Now the meat packing plants are closed due to covid so all specialty diets are off. 

 

Maybe it's because we go shopping more often or we abandoned our practice of buying certain items only when they are on sale, but staying at home is becoming really  expensive.  

 

1 hour ago, hazence said:

People who are pessimistic want to stay pessimistic. People who are optimistic want to stay optimistic. Round and round we go. Annoyed that we cannot bring each other UP...or DOWN.

 

Or realistic people remain realistic.  No need to hide in a bunker for 6 months but let's not pretend life is normal with rainbows and unicorns.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I would certainly not buck the cruise lines rules. If they are not to my liking I will just cancel. I'm not spending my time and money to go on vacation to be unhappy. 

 

I can't wait until the first cruise compass is posted here where "to enhance your cruising experience ", the "suggested" dress code now includes a mask. 

 

The boards are going to be lit up over the wording.and lack of enforcement.