SO WHAT DO YOU THINK, HAVE WE LEARNED ANYTHING?

[Spif Barwunkel]

So what do you think, have we learned anything? Do we need more buffet blather, further mask musings, increased refund rancor? And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo.

Not much more to be said pertinent to the corona virus and cruising. Of course, cruising is a very small part within the total scope of Covid-19, and yet a most important segment amidst the good folks who occupy space on CC forums….and beyond.

In the early days of the developing pandemic, everyone was caught off guard. To a certain extent, we still are today. We took a hard body blow, the ramifications from which did indeed imbue our physical and mental well-being. The virus spawned something new and rare, without borders or prejudice or protection. Cruise lines, cruise ships and cruisers unknowingly found themselves in precarious circumstances, existing on a prop and a prayer, with no inherent guidance. In all fairness, no one knew what advice to give or in what direction to go.

Hopefully, there have been lessons learned with many more forthcoming. Even without a re-occurrence it is a long way back to “normalcy”, whatever that will be. So here we are, “Everyday People” awaiting instruction on how we are to proceed within future cruising endeavors. Some of us may have already made up our minds. Others perhaps will await word from the sea-going trailblazers who are ready to sail no matter what. Whatever the case, it behooves each of us to realize that it is us, the cruisers, who will determine our cruising future. Not the cruise lines and not the cruise ships. A return to the oceans and ports of the world is in our hands, and, sea legs. 

So, what do you think, have we learned anything?

When next you cruise, only the best of times.

[Loracpin2]

Great post! We have decided that we do not see cruise #40 anytime during the foreseeable future!!! This is extremely disappointing because the last of our "bucket list" itineraries was scheduled for Sept. 26th on the Reflection! 

 

 

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

So, what do you think, have we learned anything?

Most definitely. In the hundreds of threads and thousands of posts since February, a great deal of information has been shared. Not all of it has been accurate, and many posts were simply the reflection of individual opinions, but anyone who failed to learn wasn't paying attention to the wealth of facts presented. That said, the future remains highly speculative, whether it's the future of COVID-19, the date and nature of the restart of cruises, or the future acceptance of cruise ships globally. We've learned a great deal, but we have a great deal more to learn.

[volcam98]

This message thread is most interesting, with every message well written. Some medical experts are now stating that the shutdown may have actually increased the numbers of infections and deaths. For sure, travelers need to be alert and on guard all the time on every trip. With the correct mindset and attitude, travel in the future will be different but still very much worth the effort. I'm optimistic that science, business and society can adapt to the changing environment and can prosper.

[OnTheJourney]

SB...that is indeed a well written and thoughtful post. Hopefully everyone will be more cognizant of how their actions might impact others onboard AND be willing to follow whatever new guidelines are put forth. A definite 'paradigm shift' is in order. Problem is, much like some of the policies that were instituted following the aftermath of the '08-'09 financial debacle, I can foresee where guidelines might be strictly enforced and adhered to initially, but then as time goes on - barring a serious return to CV outbreaks onboard ships - things may once again start to revert back to earlier practices in some regard. A significant % of the human race is pretty good at becoming complacent if there appears to be no immediate threat. Right now the thought of doing everything possible to avoid contagion is front and center, but I have to wonder if people will always be as mindful of it as time passes. Another example might be post 9/11 airport security - undoubtedly much tighter for a few years compared to what is probably the case now depending on the specific airport and circumstances - at least it seems that way to me. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Jasawyer]

What a great post. Thanks !!! Got my antibody test though. I had it at some point but who knows when and who knows if the test is accurate. Out of the 30 people at my office around 50% have had it but we had 4 guys go on a goose/duck hunting trip to New Hampshire in late December and all if them came back sick as can be. One guy had pneumonia and was hospitalized. I felt a bit sleepy in January for a couple weeks and kept advising my wife how tired I was but I was just groggy. Who knows if I have actually had but I know a bunch of folks at work were sick. So I suppose I learned that I don't want to transfer anything to my father who had a liver transplant years ago but is still on anti-rejection drugs. 

[Aquahound]

19 hours ago, Jasawyer said:

What a great post. Thanks !!! Got my antibody test though. I had it at some point but who knows when and who knows if the test is accurate. 

 

Same here.  Turns out I did have it back in January as I suspected, and it was just before "patient zero" was diagnosed.  I knew all along because it was an illness like I've never had before.  

 

Actually, through the antibody test, we're starting to learn of people in the Seattle area who had it in December.  

[Jasawyer]

20 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Same here.  Turns out I did have it back in January as I suspected, and it was just before "patient zero" was diagnosed.  I knew all along because it was an illness like I've never had before.  

 

Actually, through the antibody test, we're starting to learn of people in the Seattle area who had it in December.  

Ya, my wife's dad died in December of what we think was Rona. He was a very unhealthy Vietnam Vet. They thought it was flu but he came up negative for that test numerous times. Pneumonia set in and he was gone in a week and a half. Two weeks after that her best friend's father died of the exact same thing. 

[getting older slowly]

Very well said Spif Barwunkel...

 

What has one learnt.....   the world is a fragile place.   and quickly thing can spread

 

other things..... so many people will not be told or follow the rules....

 

Cruising......    well I do miss it and hope to do it again    ( actually have 2 booked.. but I doubt they will go ahead )

 

on CC   a lot of people seam to be venting they thoughts, some ramming it down other people throats..... while other are saying the same thing over and over again....

everybody is different... and everybody has there own ideas.... people need to chill out....

as stated we are in uncharted waters... to fathom   out where we are going.... and will it all end in tears...

 

But for the moment.. let's look on the bright side of life

 

Cheers Don

[navybankerteacher]

I think we have certainly learned something.  At the very least: we have seen it demonstrated that any time you have two or more people,  present you will see the same thing looked at three or more ways (there is always someone who will change his/her mind half way through  a discussion.

 

There are those who only see continuing infection and death ahead in the near term — offset by those who seem convinced that the whole COVID thing has been blown out of proportion, that they will never wear masks, and that everything should reopen immediately.  

 

Right now, the far ends of opinions seem to be those who are determined to cruise on the first possible itinerary - offset by those who seem convinced that cruising as we knew it is dead and gone.

 

I find myself near the middle:  I want to cruise again, but believe that a lot of bugs (call them viruses, if you want) need to be worked out.  I certainly want others to cruise as soon as they want to — for a couple of reasons:  it’s good for people to be able to do what they want,  and I would like to find out how things are handled on ships - and whether there are any unpleasant surprises out there — without having to experience them.   Hopefully there will be objective reviews submitted by the early cruisers.

[Mike981]

Learned from this? That I was right, no matter what proof is out there, some folks are just going to do what they want to do. And the "I want it crowd no matter what", is stronger than I thought.

As for Americans, we are not the best at learning from history. Let alone changing our behaviors accordingly.

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

Learned from this? That I was right, no matter what proof is out there, some folks are just going to do what they want to do. And the "I want it crowd no matter what", is stronger than I thought.

As for Americans, we are not the best at learning from history. Let alone changing our behaviors accordingly.

I am sure you are familiar with “history repeats itself”.After every disaster whether it be 911 or a hurricane or a blizzard people say if I survive this I will do things differently.

They do for a while and then revert to old behaviors.

 

[JRG]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:52 PM, Spif Barwunkel said:

Not much more to be said pertinent to the corona virus and cruising

 

Would you say then that we are in a "holding pattern", with respect to cruising?

 

....and I'm not talking about cruiselines holding our cash.

 

The crowd here is trying to define the expectations of the FutureState of cruising and that makes for interesting reading when you strip out all of the white noise and catawalling posts.

 

What I like about this post is that is gets the audience on the same page to some degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clo]

5 hours ago, Mike981 said:

Learned from this? That I was right, no matter what proof is out there, some folks are just going to do what they want to do. And the "I want it crowd no matter what", is stronger than I thought.

All you have to do is see the pix from this past weekend. Or the number of new cases wrapped around Mother's Day and Easter. I won't say it's only "Americans" but I think we're the biggest brats.

[lenquixote66]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

All you have to do is see the pix from this past weekend. Or the number of new cases wrapped around Mother's Day and Easter. I won't say it's only "Americans" but I think we're the biggest brats.

73 people died from Covid-19 in the state of NY yesterday.23 were from LI.

A friend of mine was at a beach that opened and left immediately because he said there were about 100 people without masks sitting together.

[OnTheJourney]

25 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

 

there were about 100 people without masks sitting together.

 

This sort of behavior is NOT going to work. Watch the numbers go up. "Covidiots"

Edited May 27, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[lenquixote66]

Just now, OnTheJourney said:

 

This sort of behavior is NOT going to work. Watch the numbers go up....

I have been posting here frequently saying the numbers will go up .I also posted that a politician from California has publicly been saying that the virus is a hoax and he is not the not the only one.Too many people in this country have that opinion.

[Spif Barwunkel]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

Would you say then that we are in a "holding pattern", with respect to cruising?

 

....and I'm not talking about cruiselines holding our cash.

 

The crowd here is trying to define the expectations of the FutureState of cruising and that makes for interesting reading when you strip out all of the white noise and catawalling posts.

 

What I like about this post is that is gets the audience on the same page to some degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It almost seems impertinent to focus solely on cruising and the disruption to our recreational lives, due to CV.

For now, the CDC is definitely holding cruise ships at bay. And rightfully so. The crowd cannot define the expectations as to the future state of cruising. We can only take our cues from the guidelines established and react accordingly in following that direction. 

 

The most obvious lesson we have learned so far - and it is not a new one - is our ability to ignore guidelines, thus hindering direction. What we witness today from the landlubbers who carelessly exercise their right-of-choice, cannot possibly be transitioned to the high seas anytime soon. Therein lies the rub. Personal behavior, individual discipline and a cumulative effort from everyone to exercise social respect for all. That is what will get us back to some semblance of normality.

Easier said than done, I'm sure. 

 

 

[Elaine5715]

On 5/24/2020 at 3:52 PM, Spif Barwunkel said:

So what do you think, have we learned anything? Do we need more buffet blather, further mask musings, increased refund rancor? And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo.

 

Not much more to be said pertinent to the corona virus and cruising. Of course, cruising is a very small part within the total scope of Covid-19, and yet a most important segment amidst the good folks who occupy space on CC forums….and beyond.

 

In the early days of the developing pandemic, everyone was caught off guard. To a certain extent, we still are today. We took a hard body blow, the ramifications from which did indeed imbue our physical and mental well-being. The virus spawned something new and rare, without borders or prejudice or protection. Cruise lines, cruise ships and cruisers unknowingly found themselves in precarious circumstances, existing on a prop and a prayer, with no inherent guidance. In all fairness, no one knew what advice to give or in what direction to go.

 

Hopefully, there have been lessons learned with many more forthcoming. Even without a re-occurrence it is a long way back to “normalcy”, whatever that will be. So here we are, “Everyday People” awaiting instruction on how we are to proceed within future cruising endeavors. Some of us may have already made up our minds. Others perhaps will await word from the sea-going trailblazers who are ready to sail no matter what. Whatever the case, it behooves each of us to realize that it is us, the cruisers, who will determine our cruising future. Not the cruise lines and not the cruise ships. A return to the oceans and ports of the world is in our hands, and, sea legs. 

 

So, what do you think, have we learned anything?

 

When next you cruise, only the best of times.

 

I learned that the media is not to be trusted and our elected officials will abuse their powers without conscience if  it suits their ambitions

[chipmaster]

I've learned that an amazing large part of the US population is proud, arrogant, selfish, and with little to no empathy.     It will be those same characteristics that lead to our decline.

[Hlitner]

While I do agree with much of what the OP posted, I disagree with the comment that a return to the oceans (cruising) is in our hands.  I think the near future of the cruise line's is in the hands of the various governments and port authorities that control countries and ports.  Without port access there will be no cruising and the cruise lines have little to say about this issue.   Just recently we saw the fiasco in Florida where local port authorities and local governments where able to control who could and could not dock.  And then you also had the Coast Guard and CDC with their own powers.  Can cruise lines begin operations in August/September?  Who knows?  While the cruise lines are certainly ready and willing to operate there is still the question of whether governments will even allow cruise ships in their waters.  

 

We have an October cruise booked that goes from Rome (Civitavecchia to Singapore).  That ship then continues on to Sydney, Australia where she is scheduled to spend the season doing typical Australia/NZ cruises.  Will that October cruise happen?  The cruise line is certainly eager and there are plenty of folks booked on that cruise.  But the question that remains unanswered are which (if any) of the ports (the countries include Italy, Greece, Jordan, UAE, Singapore, and Australia) will be open to the ship!  Both the cruisers and the cruise line are at the mercy of these countries.

 

And what happens the first time there is a single COVID-19 case on any cruise ship...anywhere?  Will it lead to a world-wide shutdown of the cruise industry?  Where will the ships go?   Who will accept the sick passengers?  None of this is under the control of the passengers.

 

 

 

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

I've learned that an amazing large part of the US population is proud, arrogant, selfish, and with little to no empathy.     It will be those same characteristics that lead to our decline.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

We have an October cruise booked that goes from Rome (Civitavecchia to Singapore). 

Perhaps I'm confusing you with someone else but I thought you were strongly thinking that you would no longer cruise. ???

[donaldsc]

Based on the rapidity of states prematurely opening and the way that so many people have behaved before and after the states opened, I definitely believe that we have learned something which is supposedly a quote from Albert Einstein - "There are only 2 things that are infinite - the universe and human stupidity and I am not certain about the universe".

 

DON

[Joebucks]

We have learned that we once again overreacted. All of those who were roasted for calling it "just the flu" weren't that far off.