Could cruising be done for the year due to the freezing of visas for foreign workers?

[CineGraphic]

If the cruise lines need to be able to get workers into the USA in order to board ships and work, a new bill may make that impossible.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-sign-order-freezing-visas-foreign-workers-through-end-year-n1231782

 

The White House announced Monday that President Donald Trump plans to sign an executive order that will freeze new visas for foreign workers through the end of the year, citing the need to preserve jobs amid the economic downturn caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Senior administration officials told reporters that H1B visas for tech workers, H2B visas for low-skill jobs, H4 visas for spouses of certain visa holders and J visas for those participating in work and student exchanges, as well as L visas for intracompany transfers, will all be suspended through Dec. 31.

 

I'm not sure what visas the industry has used in the past, but if the freeze does affect them, they would have to staff the ship completely overseas before returning to the USA.

[JAMESCC]

It's a bad idea in general. Whether it effects cruises I don't know though. Someone will have the answer.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[skynight]

I believe that seaman obtain C-1 visas and not the numbers mentioned. Chang can probably provide more detailed information.

[muffydawg]

H1-B definition: fashion models, specialty occupations with business degree. Foreign workers such as engineers, teachers, computer programmers, medical doctors, and physical therapists may be employed under the H-1B, H-1B1, and E-3 visa classification. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/elg/h1b.htm.

 

H2-B definition: The job opportunity is a bona fide, full-time, temporary position of at least 35 hours per workweek.In order to find qualified and available U.S. workers to perform the labor in the job order, the employer must conduct all required recruitment activities according to the regulations. The employer must also continue to accept State Workforce Agency referrals and hire all qualified and eligible U.S. workers who apply for the job until 21 days before the job order starts.  

 

 

[muffydawg]

9 minutes ago, skynight said:

I believe that seaman obtain C-1 visas and not the numbers mentioned. Chang can probably provide more detailed information.

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

The title of the post sounds a bit over the top. 

[CineGraphic]

9 minutes ago, muffydawg said:

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

The title of the post sounds a bit over the top. 

"Could cruising be done for the year"....that's a question.....and then I went on to say "IF the cruise lines need to be able to get workers into the USA in order to board ships and work, a new bill MAY make that impossible"

 

I'm sorry that you feel my question is over the top, but it's one that I knew that I could get an answer to, here.

[cruzsnooze]

Even and I say EVEN if crew weren't allowed to dock at a USA port there's a easy work around.............................Tenders AKA water taxi AKA water shuttles.  They do this all the time in many ports. It might be a lot of extra work but it's a viable option.  We sailed on Celebrity Xpedition several years ago in the Galapagos and that ship didn't ever dock, we and our luggage were taken to the ship via Zodiacs.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Even and I say EVEN if crew weren't allowed to dock at a USA port there's a easy work around.............................Tenders AKA water taxi AKA water shuttles.  They do this all the time in many ports. It might be a lot of extra work but it's a viable option.  We sailed on Celebrity Xpedition several years ago in the Galapagos and that ship didn't ever dock, we and our luggage were taken to the ship via Zodiacs.

Uh, not even close.  Just to enter the port confines, whether to anchor, to dock, or even just to swing in and pick up the mail, a ship must be cleared to enter, including obtaining "free pratique" or a clean bill of health.  The USCG, which has actually enacted the CDC recommendations for cruise ship operations (the "no sail order"), is the government agency that does the "clearing" of the vessel.  The ship's declaration of health is sent to the USPH/CDC for approval, and the ship's passenger and crew manifests are sent to CBP for clearing both passengers and crew, and determining if all those people have the right documentation to enter the US (since clearing to enter a US port is considered to be "entering the US"), and if the crew did not have the proper visas, the ship would not be allowed into the port, and no operations to/from the ship would be allowed, unless they were done outside the 12 mile US territorial water limit.

 

Embarking your Celebrity cruise via Zodiac had absolutely nothing to do with the ship clearing port or crew visas, or anything, merely a cost factor for dockage.

 

Having said all that, as another poster stated, ship's crew need C1/D1 visas, and these are given out almost indiscriminately upon request by the shipping line.

 

And, for the OP, even if the ship were manned completely in a foreign port, the crew would still need the D1 crew visa just to allow the ship to enter a US port.  Every crew member on every foreign ship, whether cruise ship, container ship, tanker, or what have you, has to have a D1 visa when a ship calls at a US port.

Edited June 23, 2020 by chengkp75

[Roberto256]

11 hours ago, CineGraphic said:

If the cruise lines need to be able to get workers into the USA in order to board ships and work, a new bill may make that impossible.

 

For the US, crew uses C1/D seaman's visa ... not H1B guest worker visa.

 

The artical you mention is not for crew visas.

 

The C1/D visas are typically good for two years, so many crew would already hold visas valid into the future,

although the visa would have to be valid at least until the end of the crew's contract.

 

[clo]

Related. The EU is about to make a decision if they're going to allow people from the US to enter at all because of the lousy way "we've" handled COVID. Should know quickly.

[slidergirl]

This will suck for the hotel and summer resort industry, possibly into Winter.  They hire boatloads of seasonal foreigners instead of locals.  They can pay them less than citizens.  The last hotel I worked at (NOT the condo group), we would have 2 or 3 US citizens for the Front Desk and maybe 3 for bellmen.  Management would fill in the other 5 Front Desk and 3 bellmen with "H" or "J" visa employees.  We had some that rotate between us in the Winter, go home for a month or so, then go to the East Coast or Michigan resorts for the summer.   The "J" especially were underpaid since they were considered interns.  They were always the last to go at the end of season because their intern contracts required X number of hours and X number of weeks.  We got most of the "J"s from hospitality schools in the Philippines.  

[Roberto256]

 

Sample from the internet:

 

 

 

This is from the visa application, I hope this is legible:

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Roberto256

[navybankerteacher]

On 6/22/2020 at 6:20 PM, CineGraphic said:

If the cruise lines need to be able to get workers into the USA in order to board ships and work, a new bill may make that impossible.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-sign-order-freezing-visas-foreign-workers-through-end-year-n1231782

 

The White House announced Monday that President Donald Trump plans to sign an executive order that will freeze new visas for foreign workers through the end of the year, citing the need to preserve jobs amid the economic downturn caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Senior administration officials told reporters that H1B visas for tech workers, H2B visas for low-skill jobs, H4 visas for spouses of certain visa holders and J visas for those participating in work and student exchanges, as well as L visas for intracompany transfers, will all be suspended through Dec. 31.

 

I'm not sure what visas the industry has used in the past, but if the freeze does affect them, they would have to staff the ship completely overseas before returning to the USA.

Because many idled ships are parked in places like Manila Bay ( convenient to a primary source of their staff) where they off-loaded many,  it would seem logical that they would be re-manned in such places rather than sailing empty to the US so they could board staff who would have to have been flown in from home countries.

[ldubs]

18 hours ago, slidergirl said:

This will suck for the hotel and summer resort industry, possibly into Winter.  They hire boatloads of seasonal foreigners instead of locals.  They can pay them less than citizens.  The last hotel I worked at (NOT the condo group), we would have 2 or 3 US citizens for the Front Desk and maybe 3 for bellmen.  Management would fill in the other 5 Front Desk and 3 bellmen with "H" or "J" visa employees.  We had some that rotate between us in the Winter, go home for a month or so, then go to the East Coast or Michigan resorts for the summer.   The "J" especially were underpaid since they were considered interns.  They were always the last to go at the end of season because their intern contracts required X number of hours and X number of weeks.  We got most of the "J"s from hospitality schools in the Philippines.  

 

Interesting. I assume the J visa allows intern status so that the job is considered part of education and hence the lower pay.  I've always been concerned intern status was abused to avoid wage laws.  If those interns are filling positions, it sounds like they should be considered "employees" under any reasonable test.  But you were right there, so I'm not going to take exception if you correct my thinking.    

[slidergirl]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Interesting. I assume the J visa allows intern status so that the job is considered part of education and hence the lower pay.  I've always been concerned intern status was abused to avoid wage laws.  If those interns are filling positions, it sounds like they should be considered "employees" under any reasonable test.  But you were right there, so I'm not going to take exception if you correct my thinking.    

Where I worked, the Front Desk interns were no different from any other Front Desk Agent other than they always got their hours if we had to start doing short shifts toward the end of the season.  And, as a Supervisor/Manager, I was never told to treat them differently.   The only difference between the "J" kids was that we had to write up a special evaluation for their school and they had to write up a paper on their experience.  It's going to be interesting to see the "talent" that hotels end up with this season.  Honestly, I would rather have the "J" kids than some of the slacker kids I had who were in town only to go out every night and drink.  I usually ended up with the visa people because none of the slacker kids ever wanted to do the evening shift!!  I always felt sorry for the "J" kids who came over with the other Hospitality school kids and got put with Food & Bev as host/hostesses at the Restaurant instead of the Front Desk.  

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, slidergirl said:

Where I worked, the Front Desk interns were no different from any other Front Desk Agent other than they always got their hours if we had to start doing short shifts toward the end of the season.  And, as a Supervisor/Manager, I was never told to treat them differently.   The only difference between the "J" kids was that we had to write up a special evaluation for their school and they had to write up a paper on their experience.  It's going to be interesting to see the "talent" that hotels end up with this season.  Honestly, I would rather have the "J" kids than some of the slacker kids I had who were in town only to go out every night and drink.  I usually ended up with the visa people because none of the slacker kids ever wanted to do the evening shift!!  I always felt sorry for the "J" kids who came over with the other Hospitality school kids and got put with Food & Bev as host/hostesses at the Restaurant instead of the Front Desk.  

 

Thanks.  The "J" kids sure sound like employees as opposed to students looking over someone's shoulder.   One of the management problems in your industry, and especially restaurants, is that so many workers are there only temporarily and have no motivation to do more than they need to get by.  I would not want to be a manager in that model.  I give you credit.