SO WHAT DO YOU THINK, HAVE WE LEARNED ANYTHING? - Part 2

[Spif Barwunkel]

Several weeks ago Part 1 was sent to the boneyard. Since then are we smarter, wiser, more ornery, less tolerant, no change? We've seen cruising go to "All Stop" and right along with it here we are relegated to landlubber status. Based on forthcoming guidelines and directives we may have to establish our sea-legs all over again and learn how to cruise.

 

We have learned that in a serious crisis Celebrity is consistently inconsistent when it comes to refunds and FCC's. Also, no specific communication as to how and why X is proceeding with it's method of operation, only vague generalities which serve as an attempt at placation rather than an offer of substantive description. Some cruisers have had little or no problems, others continue to await resolution, feeling lost in the system, their brand loyalty unrecognized and unappreciated. I can only speak to X because I had four cruises on the books when the virus came. I'm sure that circumstances are the same with other cruise lines. Point here is, if we knew why things were happening the way they are, could we have better understood and accepted Celebrity's efforts?

 

What have we learned about third party involvement in the booking process when things go awry? Will TA's be as sought after once cruising begins again? Or, will most folks look to do business directly with Celebrity? Or neither?

 

There are other "lessons learned" out there. So What do you think?

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I've learned that I miss cruising and my cruising friends!  52 nights at sea down the tubes so far this year.  I still have one left in November.  Don't know if it will go or not.  It's not with Celebrity.

 

I've also learned that I would never have been made whole had it not been for my wonderful TA and her rep.  Crazy things happened.  Things were credited to a friend's credit card but counted as part of my refund.  But my TA, who is also her TA, recognized the last 4 digits of her credit card number (all that Celebrity would provide) and helped get it sorted out.  So, I will continue to use a TA.  Unfortunately, my TA is retiring at the end of the year.  I'm trying a new one.

 

I've also learned not to pay in full for shore excursions with Saga Tours of Iceland, who went bankrupt and left me and many others out hundreds of dollars.  Apparently they were using the money we gave them 1 1/2 years in advance for current operations.  They, of course, had wonderful reviews on Trip Advisor.  Some people were successful with getting a chargeback with their credit card company.  I wasn't.  I won't be doing any more business with Capital One.  There are other reputable credit cards out there that offer no foreign currency exchange fees.  

 

Celebrity has always been consistently inconsistent, and I have no expectation that they will change.  But I enjoy the experience on their ships, so I will probably continue to sail with them.  I do have three cruises booked with them for next year, all repeats of ones I had hoped to do this year.  We shall see.  I'm also looking at cruises on other lines, such as a cruise down the Mississippi River and a cruise on the Great Lakes.

[Georgia_Peaches]

12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Also, no specific communication as to how and why X is proceeding with it's method of operation, only vague generalities which serve as an attempt at placation rather than an offer of substantive description.

I think this is due, in part to the fact that they don't want to publish that which has not yet been approved only to have to change it again.  How would it look to the consumer if they put out multiple releases because they have to walk back or correct something put in an earlier release.  I'm of the opinion that the best course of action is the have a solid plan before releasing it.  Generalities is about all they can manage at the moment.  Like you, I find it very irritating but I'm not sitting in their chair so I try (sometime really try) not to judge.

 

12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

What have we learned about third party involvement in the booking process when things go awry? Will TA's be as sought after once cruising begins again? Or, will most folks look to do business directly with Celebrity? Or neither?

I will continue to use my TA.  She has been much more successful in communication with Celebrity than I would have been on my own.  I can see no benefit to my going it alone on future bookings.  And the bonus OBC that we score from our TA makes it worth it.

 

12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Some cruisers have had little or no problems, others continue to await resolution, feeling lost in the system, their brand loyalty unrecognized and unappreciated.

We had a cruise cancelled in April.  We received our refund in chunks from on board pre-paids to taxes and port fees, to finally the fare itself.  Entire time period was 90 days.  Some have not been so lucky.  But what's the lesson?  IDK.  If there's another situation that shuts down the cruise industry indefinitely, do you think they (the cruise industry) will have different protocols in place to speed up the refund process?  I don't see any of the cruise lines building in such a contingency.  It is what is it.

 

So what have I learned?

I won't book cruises so far in advance anymore.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Georgia_Peaches

[Spif Barwunkel]

  12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Also, no specific communication as to how and why X is proceeding with it's method of operation, only vague generalities which serve as an attempt at placation rather than an offer of substantive description.

 

Might have been a bit vague on the above statement. I did not intend reference to how X will operate once cruising begins again. Rather, I would have liked to see an initial correspondence on how Celebrity planned to handle the reimbursement plan, and why. Obviously, business as usual would not be an option. Too many obstacles and a change of routine would encumber the daily order of things. Perhaps an explanation of such would have served to keep us all informed and therefore more patient and accepting of what's to come.  

Edited July 8, 2020 by Spif Barwunkel

[Pinboy]

12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Since then are we smarter, wiser, more ornery, less tolerant,

IMO everybody is so frustrated with what's going on , not only regarding future cruising, but " Life " in general.

Because I must stay on topic, a TA is like any other service provider. Some are good , others not.  

About " When will be able to cruise again ? "-- pages and pages on this, but, who " really " knows ? What will the new regulations be , and are we willing to pay for it ?

Cruising is a privilege and a pleasure , however, at this time aren't there are more important issues at stake --- like getting the Economy going ??

However, CC is still a nice diversion from the " real world " .

 

 

 

[TeeRick]

My main lesson learned is to never take travel and cruising for granted.  The world changed this year almost overnight.  I had trips planned and cruises planned.  Worked all my life to travel in retirement.  Now my advice would be to travel if possible at any age, if you have the time, willingness and finances.  Watching Netflix stuck at home is no substitute!

Edited July 8, 2020 by TeeRick

[son3cruisers]

14 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

  Now my advice would be to travel if possible at any age, if you have the time, willingness and finances.  Watching Netflix stuck at home is no substitute!

This!!!!
I tell my spouse this every year. COVID has been a reminder of quickly life can take a turn. 
This March would have been our first on Celebrity. We decided to cancel a day before or scheduled sailing, {(Canada recommended no travel- we listened) therefore not eligible for a refund, or a L&S so just a FCC. Not sure when or if it will ever be used, so I take it as a loss. 
With the prices of cruises for 2021 and 2022, our FCC barely covers the cost of one passengers fare. 
What have I learnt? The future and travel has changed as we know it. Value the time we have and the places we go. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by son3cruisers

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

  12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Also, no specific communication as to how and why X is proceeding with it's method of operation, only vague generalities which serve as an attempt at placation rather than an offer of substantive description.

 

Might have been a bit vague on the above statement. I did not intend reference to how X will operate once cruising begins again. Rather, I would have liked to see an initial correspondence on how Celebrity planned to handle the reimbursement plan, and why. Obviously, business as usual would not be an option. Too many obstacles and a change of routine would encumber the daily order of things. Perhaps an explanation of such would have served to keep us all informed and therefore more patient and accepting of what's to come.  

Spif I understand your question here.  Celebrity and all cruise lines were caught in an unprecedented situation and mumbled and stumbled continuously creating frustrated cruise passengers. It has gotten a bit better.   But I tend to think that there is no acceptable communication plan or refund plan for many folks here than the obvious one.  A direct communication early on saying "immediate unconditional refunds" if you choose them regardless of whether the cruise date cancellation calendar game was being played.

[paulh84]

1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

 

Might have been a bit vague on the above statement. I did not intend reference to how X will operate once cruising begins again. Rather, I would have liked to see an initial correspondence on how Celebrity planned to handle the reimbursement plan, and why. 

 

They have repeatedly posted on social media as to what they process is. Customers weren't happy with the speed but that's a  separate issue. You need an explanation of why they have to issue refund in the manner they are? I wouldn't hold my breath. It's a manual process, it takes a long time and they are absolutely swamped with at least ~7 months of cancellations, changes and refunds. Seems fairly straight forward. 

[jelayne]

What I have learned:

-to be thankful that we have been able to travel extensively

-to cherish the friendships we have made through cruising and Cruise Critic

-that there are many people who are facing more serious problems that a delayed refund and who would happily have that as       their problem

-that the staff of  our TA and the staff at the Celebrity Call Centers have been upbeat, helpful and patient in spite have having staff cuts, working at home( while keeping an eye on kids and home schooling) Kuddos to them!

-that when we can travel again to be much more appreciative of that gift.

 

 

 

[Glendakayself]

I have learned that I am addicted to cruising, planning, and counting down the days...

 

I have learned that I need to be patient and content within my own bubble with hubby. I have learned to stay busy with housework, yard work, and home maintenance and to look forward to season changes--counting down the days to fall and cooler weather instead of the September cruise that was cancelled. 

 

I have learned to count my blessings. I am blessed to be connected on-line with the ability to order for pickup/delivery. I am thankful that I can communicate with others both on-line and through phone calls. We even meet with our church group once a week by ZOOM and family as well as doctors via FaceTime.  I am thankful for Cruise Critic and other social media.  I am grateful for YouTube and the ability of our church to stream services. We are blessed to have television as a source of entertainment and news. I am thankful for all the scientists, researchers, and volunteers who are working on vaccines and/or treatments. We owe so much to medical professorials who work endless hours in hospitals, sacrificing their own lives. There are new developments and technologies announced each day in the fight against Covid19. When I think about those who went through the 1918 flu epidemic without all the resources available to us, I realize that we are so fortunate. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Glendakayself

[Spif Barwunkel]

1 hour ago, paulh84 said:

 

They have repeatedly posted on social media as to what they process is. Customers weren't happy with the speed but that's a  separate issue. You need an explanation of why they have to issue refund in the manner they are? I wouldn't hold my breath. It's a manual process, it takes a long time and they are absolutely swamped with at least ~7 months of cancellations, changes and refunds. Seems fairly straight forward. 

I totally understand the process. My refunds showed up on July 4, 79 days after cancellation notification. I had no problem with that but many people did. It did not matter to me that others received reimbursement after 2 - 4 weeks. Still, more folks continue to wait after more than 100 days. Agreed, the process is slow. More future cancellations will add to the frustrations. Difficult for some folks to understand. At times, even the most understandable and straight forward situations need that little extra dollop of assurance and recognition. That has not been the case. 

[Prost Seattle]

I hope Celebrity and RCL have been learning lessons as well.  A robust IT and accurate website would go a long way to easing customer concerns.  

[TeaBag]

I have learned that life is fragile and that nothing on this earth can be taken for granted.  

 

I really miss cruising but I have been reading some wonderful blogs people have written about their cruises and it is like being on one.  That helps for now.

[hcat]

Dh  and I learned how lucky we have been to cruise on  many great ships to interesting ports  along with many wonderful cruisers and  staff/ officers. We will treasure our memories, enjoy old photos...and keep in touch with many   friends we made while cruising

 

We  observed various gov , maritime,  port entities,  and professional travel groups flounder for a long time trying to figure things out and learning to cooperate instead of acting in their own self interest. How refreshing  it will be to see this improve.

 

We learned that corporations ..notably X, (Royal C)   mostly put the corp bottom line first over good customer service.  While indiv reps may have been nice and tried to be helpful,  X as a whole failed to handle people and money on an acceptable level. ( poor management and technology combined)

 

We learned our $2,000 plus fcc  may be useless if  we can't use it in time;  that our Connie cruise may not materialize;  and X will let us know when  it is convenient for them! Our APEX re boot cruise may or may not happen...or may involve too many rules.

 

We will see what happens going foward but we also learned to no longer unconditionally  trust and accept promises made about cruises and travel in general.  We hope our trust and confidence is restored so we can enjoy cruising again some day.

[cruznjan]

18 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Several weeks ago Part 1 was sent to the boneyard. Since then are we smarter, wiser, more ornery, less tolerant, no change? We've seen cruising go to "All Stop" and right along with it here we are relegated to landlubber status. Based on forthcoming guidelines and directives we may have to establish our sea-legs all over again and learn how to cruise.

 

We have learned that in a serious crisis Celebrity is consistently inconsistent when it comes to refunds and FCC's. Also, no specific communication as to how and why X is proceeding with it's method of operation, only vague generalities which serve as an attempt at placation rather than an offer of substantive description. Some cruisers have had little or no problems, others continue to await resolution, feeling lost in the system, their brand loyalty unrecognized and unappreciated. I can only speak to X because I had four cruises on the books when the virus came. I'm sure that circumstances are the same with other cruise lines. Point here is, if we knew why things were happening the way they are, could we have better understood and accepted Celebrity's efforts?

 

What have we learned about third party involvement in the booking process when things go awry? Will TA's be as sought after once cruising begins again? Or, will most folks look to do business directly with Celebrity? Or neither?

 

There are other "lessons learned" out there. So What do you think?

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

I don't know about lessons learned, but after the norovirus outbreaks Celebrity and other lines responded by building bigger ships

[hcat]

1 minute ago, cruznjan said:

I don't know about lessons learned, but after the norovirus outbreaks Celebrity and other lines responded by building bigger ships

It was Counter-intuitive but that was part of "Royalization" marching on, and on and on!

[Covepointcruiser]

Actually, I thought Celebrity was building smaller “Edge” size ships.    Where is Celebrity building larger ships?

[Fouremco]

12 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Actually, I thought Celebrity was building smaller “Edge” size ships.    Where is Celebrity building larger ships?

I don't follow you. Other than the Galapagos series, each of the ship classes has increased in size over the preceding one. The Solstice class is longer, heavier and holds more passengers than the Millennium class, and the Edge class ships are bigger in turn than those of the Solstice class.

[cruise47]

I have one question. When will we be able to cruise again  I miss cruising..🥺

 

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

 

50 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I don't follow you. Other than the Galapagos series, each of the ship classes has increased in size over the preceding one. The Solstice class is longer, heavier and holds more passengers than the Millennium class, and the Edge class ships are bigger in turn than those of the Solstice class.

 

Actually the Edge is slightly smaller than the Reflection in length and passenger count at double occupancy. 

[Fouremco]

14 minutes ago, jelayne said:

 

 

Actually the Edge is slightly smaller than the Reflection in length and passenger count at double occupancy. 

Yes, you're right. While my comment holds true for the Solstice class as a whole, the Reflection is an exception.

[hcat]

Not so much the sizes  of X  ships , but at least they are not yet  big malls with a food court.  Reflection is our least favorite Solstice Clas ship.,,the layout  is not that great and feels crowded in several areas!   

But the overall discussion has ben interesting,

[jelayne]

I guess that’s why there is some variety.  Reflection is our favorite because of the added speciality restaurants.  In 4 cruises we only felt it was crowded on 1 when Blu was overcrowded, noisy and slow service.  Turns out there was a problem in Luminae and there were 60+ passengers from Luminae wanting to dine in Blu every night.
At least X hasn’t moved to the mega ships.

[TeeRick]

11 hours ago, jelayne said:

I guess that’s why there is some variety.  Reflection is our favorite because of the added speciality restaurants.  In 4 cruises we only felt it was crowded on 1 when Blu was overcrowded, noisy and slow service.  Turns out there was a problem in Luminae and there were 60+ passengers from Luminae wanting to dine in Blu every night.
At least X hasn’t moved to the mega ships.

It is interesting to think about the near future where RCCL parent corporation sells some ships, re-shuffles it fleet, and restructures overall in the post-COVID operation.  I wonder if one RCI mega ship, an Oasis Class or a Quantum Class, could be rebranded to Celebrity?  In lieu of Clebrity building more Edge Class after APEX?  Just a thought.