If Royal Requires A Covid-19 Vaccine Before Cruising Will You Get It???

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, BND said:

They can't be liable for something they didn't actually do.  Businesses require all kinds of things and can deny you service if you don't follow them.  If a business says you can't come in because you haven't had your shot, it's your choice as to whether you get the shot or you don't do business there.  

 

And, the reality is, they will require it because most countries, if not all will.  That does not make RCI liable in any way, so yes they can require it, but it's still a choice.

Of course there is a choice......choose to cruise or not to cruise. That is completely up to the customer.

[Sunshine3601]

6 hours ago, BND said:

I thought the Russians were the first lol

 

As for the children thing, I know it's been tested on kids between about 12 and 18 in the US.  But, to not give it to anyone at all under 18 seems weird.    I know children don't get as sick, but I wasn't talking about 5 year olds, it was about the fact they said under 18.  Also, unvaccinated children can be carriers. 

 

Article about trials on children:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer-trial-kids/index.html

 

There's also a few articles discussing the fact we can't defeat Covid without vaccinating children too.  

 

 

Yes they have recently started trials on kids 12 to 18.  I believe the interview on tv yesterday had said this but it has to go thru same timeline of adult trials.  So it will be some time before vaccine will be approved for that age group.

Yes kids are carriers of the virus too.

It will all take time.  I believe once the vaccine is approved and available it will be distributed alot quicker than some of the posters here think.

At least I hope it will!!

[Tree_skier]

Fauci said on MSNBC today that he expects that everybody who would want it would have been able to get it by the end of April

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fauci-says-all-americans-could-have-access-to-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-april/ar-BB1aUgee

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Tree_skier

[sgmn]

6 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I believe the claim about the demand. My very first flu vaccination was this year and I'm 70. Hubby made me do it!

Same here, my company always, offered it for free but I never had it. This year as I am 65 before end march I got offered it by my doctor last month

[ace2542]

8 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I'm not understanding by any age group would not be eligible for vaccination. How can we achieve herd immunity if a large part of the population will not be inoculated?

Perhaps because the younger people are for the most part not affected by it that much? I agree with your statement but some of the UK Media has said this for the UK in recent weeks though I think position may have moved a bit.

[Mapleleafforever]

10 hours ago, coffeebean said:

This is old news by the time I'm reading this and replying. It is now known the trial volunteer did not receive the vaccine in the trial. He received the placebo.

Definitely old news now but to be absolutely correct the person was in the control group and got a meningitis vaccine, not a placebo. But also definitely not the Covid-19 vaccine being tested. 

[nomad098]

Whether RCL or other countries require you to be vaccinated before entry will primarily depend on what sort of 1st generation vaccines we have.

 

If the the vaccine breaks transmission meaning a person can not carry or spread the disease then it makes sense to have a policy of only vaccinated people being allowed to cruise or enter other countries.

 

If the vaccine has a severe or a varying reduction in harm but still allows people to carry and spread the disease this then makes the call a lot more difficult. Do you exclude certain groups of people or individuals because the vaccine is not as effective for them?  

 

There is still a lot of unknowns with the vaccines and a lot of misinformation, I checked some of the "fact checker" sites used by social media, news outlets and most of them have very little grasp on what a mRNA vaccine is. Claiming it is a molecule rather than an edited piece of genetic code that only produces the covid-19 receptors not the disease when it infects cells producing an antibody, T-cell response. They also claim it does not affect DNA, where as most of the research before covid-19 into mRNA pointed to mRNA having an effect on DNA and epigenetic DNA. This does not mean it negatively affects a person it just has an effect.

 

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html

 

Whether a mRNA covid-19 vaccine would actually have an impact on the genome may well not be known for generations.

 

I personally would not take a mRNA vaccine as the science is still relatively new and as such may have unintended consequences both negative and positive.

 

A vaccine built upon a well understood platform would be preferable but I would still not take it for a few years even if this meant I could not cruise or holiday outside of the UK, simple because as the manufactures have stated that due to such small scale trials and duration the actual efficacy and consequences of any drug can not be truly determined at this time.

 

 

[BND]

4 hours ago, sgmn said:

Same here, my company always, offered it for free but I never had it. This year as I am 65 before end march I got offered it by my doctor last month

Did he offer you the version for people over 65?  I've been getting the shot for 25 years and only caught the flu once and that was this past Jan and it was a very, very mild case.  I've had it twice before I started getting the vaccine so I know what the flu feels like.

[BND]

11 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I'm not understanding by any age group would not be eligible for vaccination. How can we achieve herd immunity if a large part of the population will not be inoculated?

We can't and there's even a couple of articles that discuss that fact.

[mek]

11 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

Whether RCL or other countries require you to be vaccinated before entry will primarily depend on what sort of 1st generation vaccines we have.

 

If the the vaccine breaks transmission meaning a person can not carry or spread the disease then it makes sense to have a policy of only vaccinated people being allowed to cruise or enter other countries.

 

If the vaccine has a severe or a varying reduction in harm but still allows people to carry and spread the disease this then makes the call a lot more difficult. Do you exclude certain groups of people or individuals because the vaccine is not as effective for them?  

 

There is still a lot of unknowns with the vaccines and a lot of misinformation, I checked some of the "fact checker" sites used by social media, news outlets and most of them have very little grasp on what a mRNA vaccine is. Claiming it is a molecule rather than an edited piece of genetic code that only produces the covid-19 receptors not the disease when it infects cells producing an antibody, T-cell response. They also claim it does not affect DNA, where as most of the research before covid-19 into mRNA pointed to mRNA having an effect on DNA and epigenetic DNA. This does not mean it negatively affects a person it just has an effect.

 

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html

 

Whether a mRNA covid-19 vaccine would actually have an impact on the genome may well not be known for generations.

 

I personally would not take a mRNA vaccine as the science is still relatively new and as such may have unintended consequences both negative and positive.

 

A vaccine built upon a well understood platform would be preferable but I would still not take it for a few years even if this meant I could not cruise or holiday outside of the UK, simple because as the manufactures have stated that due to such small scale trials and duration the actual efficacy and consequences of any drug can not be truly determined at this time.

 

 

I will take it as soon as possible - not for cruising, but in order to be with my family and grandson.  If it allows me to do that then I will accept any possible risks associated with the vaccine.  I'm certainly not willing to wait a few years to do that.

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, mek said:

I will take it as soon as possible - not for cruising, but in order to be with my family and grandson.  If it allows me to do that then I will accept any possible risks associated with the vaccine.  I'm certainly not willing to wait a few years to do that.

 

It's a personal choice to be vaccinated.

It's the cruiselines choice in regards to vaccination to cruise

It's a countries choice in regards to vaccination to move in and out of their borders.

 

I draw the line on when it comes to mandatory vaccinations and vilifying those that choose not to.

 

[mek]

3 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

It's a personal choice to be vaccinated.

It's the cruiselines choice in regards to vaccination to cruise

It's a countries choice in regards to vaccination to move in and out of their borders.

 

I draw the line on when it comes to mandatory vaccinations and vilifying those that choose not to.

 

I will admit, I have such conflicted feelings about the vaccine.  On one hand I agree that any  government  shouldn't force  people to get a mandatory vaccination, but on the other hand I think everyone has a responsibility to get this thing under control and right now I believe the vaccine is the way to achieve that.  So what is more important? Do individual freedoms override what is best for most?  It's really hard for me to say everyone should have to get the vaccine, but in a issue of health of this magnitude I'm leaning in that  direction.

[nomad098]

48 minutes ago, mek said:

I will admit, I have such conflicted feelings about the vaccine.  On one hand I agree that any  government  shouldn't force  people to get a mandatory vaccination, but on the other hand I think everyone has a responsibility to get this thing under control and right now I believe the vaccine is the way to achieve that.  So what is more important? Do individual freedoms override what is best for most?  It's really hard for me to say everyone should have to get the vaccine, but in a issue of health of this magnitude I'm leaning in that  direction.

 

We do not mandate vaccines for good reason, there has been some serious problems made with vaccines over the years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/

https://www.nature.com/news/calls-in-india-for-legal-action-against-us-charity-1.13700

https://www.dw.com/en/now-just-free-africa-of-vaccine-derived-poliovirus/a-54879842

and apart from HPV these were well established vaccines for well known diseases built from well established platforms.

 

Though mRNA vaccines have been thought of since the 90's non have come to fruition, now several have been developed in less than a year.

 

It certainly is a frightening ethical dilemma, would you want to be the government that mandates a vaccine program on everyone for the good of the people only to find out at a later stage there are complications worse than the disease. 

 

 

[mek]

30 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

We do not mandate vaccines for good reason, there has been some serious problems made with vaccines over the years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/

https://www.nature.com/news/calls-in-india-for-legal-action-against-us-charity-1.13700

https://www.dw.com/en/now-just-free-africa-of-vaccine-derived-poliovirus/a-54879842

and apart from HPV these were well established vaccines for well known diseases built from well established platforms.

 

Though mRNA vaccines have been thought of since the 90's non have come to fruition, now several have been developed in less than a year.

 

It certainly is a frightening ethical dilemma, would you want to be the government that mandates a vaccine program on everyone for the good of the people only to find out at a later stage there are complications worse than the disease. 

 

 

I really am against government mandates, but how do you think we are going to get out of this pandemic if we don't have/use a vaccine?  

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, mek said:

I really am against government mandates, but how do you think we are going to get out of this pandemic if we don't have/use a vaccine?  

I don’t think a government mandate will happen if what is meant  a mandate from the federal government. I do see employees in some professions being mandated. Hospital workers, nursing home workers, workers in long term care. Also public school students. Cruise lines could mandate or it might be the destinations. A vaccination book or something like that may be needed for international travel. With the addition of those of us who understand the need to take the vaccine and will line up for it, likely a large majority of the population will come around,  I think there will be enough percentage of the population that take it to end the pandemic. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Charles4515

[nomad098]

3 minutes ago, mek said:

I really am against government mandates, but how do you think we are going to get out of this pandemic if we don't have/use a vaccine?  

 

I do not think we are going to get out of this even with a mandated, safe, 90% effective vaccine the numbers just do not stack up. The best we can do is mitigate the risk.

 

In the history of man we have only eradicated smallpox virus in humans and the rinderpest in bovines, everything else we mitigate the risk.

 

 

 

 

[NJ&Ozzie]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

We do not mandate vaccines for good reason, there has been some serious problems made with vaccines over the years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/

https://www.nature.com/news/calls-in-india-for-legal-action-against-us-charity-1.13700

https://www.dw.com/en/now-just-free-africa-of-vaccine-derived-poliovirus/a-54879842

and apart from HPV these were well established vaccines for well known diseases built from well established platforms.

 

Though mRNA vaccines have been thought of since the 90's non have come to fruition, now several have been developed in less than a year.

 

It certainly is a frightening ethical dilemma, would you want to be the government that mandates a vaccine program on everyone for the good of the people only to find out at a later stage there are complications worse than the disease. 

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head, so to speak.  Is individual freedom more important than the collective?  It is thought that once you move towards the "collective" this is a very slippery slope towards communism & loss of individual freedom/choice.  Everyone should think seriously about this.  Once gone, very difficult to get back.

NJ 

[torpeedo]

My sleeve is already rolled up!!  

[nomad098]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I don’t think a government mandate will happen if what is meant  a mandate from the federal government. I do see employees in some professions being mandated. Hospital workers, nursing home workers, workers in long term care. Also public school students. Cruise lines could mandate or it might be the destinations. A vaccination book or something like that may be needed for international travel. With the addition of those of us who understand the need to take the vaccine and will line up for it, likely a large majority of the population will come around,  I think there will be enough percentage of the population that take it to end the pandemic. 

 

You give your fellow man to much credit. According to latest statistics less than 55% will roll up their sleeves nowhere near enough.

 

Some countries need a vaccination certification already for some diseases, the problem comes when some untrustworthy people jump up and down saying you need to have a digital certification and it can be done with futuristic technology, this opens the door for the conspiracy theorists and unfortunately they do have some legitimate concerns in regards to data collection and privacy.

 

I'm all in favour of a vaccination paper book just not in favour of the Orwellian alternative.

 

Event 201 was a desktop plan for a coronavirus pandemic in October 2019 an extremely interesting insight into how the higher echelons work. One of their biggest worries when the pandemic was in full swing was that governments around the world would use the pandemic to implement more authoritarian control over their people which could become worse as time went on and not released when the danger had passed and could become stricter.

 

Mandating medical staff to take an experimental vaccine could possibly be a huge risk to the health of a nation

 

As one medical expert said "we need to put this to the mum test" would you inject your mum with an experimental vaccine without knowing all the facts, could you give informed consent when the manufacturers are unsure of the long term implications.

 

I hope all the vaccines work but I think I'll plan for the worst.

 

 

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

You give your fellow man to much credit. According to latest statistics less than 55% will roll up their sleeves nowhere near enough.

 

Some countries need a vaccination certification already for some diseases, the problem comes when some untrustworthy people jump up and down saying you need to have a digital certification and it can be done with futuristic technology, this opens the door for the conspiracy theorists and unfortunately they do have some legitimate concerns in regards to data collection and privacy.

 

I'm all in favour of a vaccination paper book just not in favour of the Orwellian alternative.

 

Event 201 was a desktop plan for a coronavirus pandemic in October 2019 an extremely interesting insight into how the higher echelons work. One of their biggest worries when the pandemic was in full swing was that governments around the world would use the pandemic to implement more authoritarian control over their people which could become worse as time went on and not released when the danger had passed and could become stricter.

 

Mandating medical staff to take an experimental vaccine could possibly be a huge risk to the health of a nation

 

As one medical expert said "we need to put this to the mum test" would you inject your mum with an experimental vaccine without knowing all the facts, could you give informed consent when the manufacturers are unsure of the long term implications.

 

I hope all the vaccines work but I think I'll plan for the worst.

 

 

The paper book can be forged though and could be very difficult to confirm authenticity?. It would be a lot harder I suspect to fake up a digital result.

[grandgeezer]

The question is “if Royal requires the shot, would you get it?” No shot, no cruise.

I would get it for my own personal safety, cruise line requirement would make no difference.

[mek]

3 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

As one medical expert said "we need to put this to the mum test" would you inject your mum with an experimental vaccine without knowing all the facts, could you give informed consent when the manufacturers are unsure of the long term implications.

Mum test?  That's easy  - she would be in line right behind me.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by mek

[OSUZorba]

7 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

We do not mandate vaccines for good reason, there has been some serious problems made with vaccines over the years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/

https://www.nature.com/news/calls-in-india-for-legal-action-against-us-charity-1.13700

https://www.dw.com/en/now-just-free-africa-of-vaccine-derived-poliovirus/a-54879842

and apart from HPV these were well established vaccines for well known diseases built from well established platforms.

 

Though mRNA vaccines have been thought of since the 90's non have come to fruition, now several have been developed in less than a year.

 

It certainly is a frightening ethical dilemma, would you want to be the government that mandates a vaccine program on everyone for the good of the people only to find out at a later stage there are complications worse than the disease. 

 

 

In the NIH article, this is basically the worst case

 

[quote]In 1976, concerns in the United States about a possible influenza pandemic involving a virus similar to the deadly 1918 pandemic strain resulted in a large-scale vaccination program for the entire country. Approximately 45 million people were vaccinated in 10 weeks with what became known as the “swine flu vaccine” [16]. The US government abruptly stopped the vaccination program when no swine flu cases were detected outside the military base where the disease originated and when an unexpectedly high number of cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome were reported in vaccinated individuals. The vaccine was estimated to have caused approximately one Guillain-Barré syndrome case per 100,000 persons vaccinated [17], resulting in 53 deaths [18]. As a result of the association between the 1976 swine flu vaccine and Guillain-Barré syndrome, this condition is closely monitored every influenza season as part of the influenza vaccine safety monitoring in the United States.[/quote]

 

I would gladly, knowingly take a 0.00012% of dying from a vaccine vs the 2+% chance of dying from COVID (about 16,226 times more likely to die of COVID than the worst case vaccine mistake). Also notice that the side effects were noticed pretty quickly, and by the time anyone other than volunteers get the vaccine there will have been 10s of thousands of people already vaccinated for a months, some for 9-10 months.

 

Of course there will be more risk that with say MMR or Polio vaccines that have been around for decades, but major common side effects would most likely show themselves before the vaccine reaches the masses.

 

BTW: Guillain-Barré is caused at a higher rate by the actual flu and COVID than the 1976 swine flu vaccine.

[OSUZorba]

On 11/11/2020 at 1:51 PM, BND said:

I thought the Russians were the first lol

 

As for the children thing, I know it's been tested on kids between about 12 and 18 in the US.  But, to not give it to anyone at all under 18 seems weird.    I know children don't get as sick, but I wasn't talking about 5 year olds, it was about the fact they said under 18.  Also, unvaccinated children can be carriers. 

 

Article about trials on children:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer-trial-kids/index.html

 

There's also a few articles discussing the fact we can't defeat Covid without vaccinating children too.  

 

 

I really think this is just that the vaccine trails on children won't be done yet. I am sure as soon as the children trails are complete it'll be offered to them.

[molly361]

Are these vaccines like the flu one where you have to get one every year?  I never see any mention of that