Best summation of HAL: going forward

[Cruising-along]

4 hours ago, ski ww said:

Do you have grand parents? do you spent any time with them? have you shared this little gem of wisdom with them? I suggest you cruise on the party boats and don't ever get old.

Voyageur stated that he/she is also part of the older/vulnerable passengers, so I really doubt his grand parents are living, or that he cruises on party boats.  🙄

[Ken the cruiser]

IMHO for HAL to be profitable going forward and compete with its future competitors, I would think they would also need to sell off their other smaller ships. This would include the Volendam and Zaandam where around 70+% of their cabins are either inside or oceanview which I would image don't generate a lot of profit.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Ken the cruiser

[oaktreerb]

3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

That’s a hell of a generalization.  We usually sail in insides and not only leave the auto gratuity in place but usually leave a generous additional gratuity, not that it’s any of your business.  You are entitled to you opinion but not your judgement.  Ignore button activated. 

I am glad that you can enjoy the amazing low prices that HAL offers on inside rooms.  There is certainly nothing wrong with getting your best price for a cruise.  Those who are able to sail in inside rooms are getting a great value.  It sounds like you establish a great rapport with the crew and generously reward them for their hard work.  Good for you and happy future cruising.

Edited July 27, 2020 by oaktreerb

[iancal]

What on earth is wrong with an inside cabin?  We always do a balcony because I am somewhat claustophobic.  I need to see outside and to be able to step outside.  

 

We do mostly last minute buys.  I often envy those folks who are astute enough and able to snag some fabulous last minute inside deals.  We  have to shop harder for last minute balcony offers.  These folks are the ones that are often sailing at half what I paid and enjoying it just as much.  And often for twice as many trips!  More power to them.

 

  More than a few times we have come across a 'cabin snob' who has asked us out of the blue what type of cabin we have.  Have to wonder about people like that.  Those are the ones who like to refer to their balcony or verandah cabins as a 'suite'.

Edited July 27, 2020 by iancal

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

Wow.  It's just an internet message board.  If posts here get you that upset it might be time for a break.

 

And actually the posts you're referencing weren't offensive in any way.  The poster was just stating facts about passenger demographics and the cruise industry.  There were no personal attacks or insults whatsoever.

 

They may not have been offensive to you, but you cannot speak for others.

 

Words are important in conveying not just meaning but tone. There is a huge difference between saying something like:

 

"HAL tends to attract a clientele that is more vulnerable to serious outcomes if infected with COVID-19, which could make it more difficult for them to re-start."

 

and 

 

"HAL needs to dump ... its older, sicker clientele."

 

See the difference?  

 

Sometimes truths may be unpleasant (i.e., the much higher mortality rate among older persons from COVID does pose a problem for cruise lines, particularly those who offer many long cruises), but they can be communicated with empathy.

[PromenadeDeckWriter]

As a younger HAL passenger who sails with a similar mentality of the more experienced/wiser passengers that HAL attracts, I can attest to this. Not many in my age group are hooked on the classic style that I am, and prefer the more flashy foo foos. Maybe it's because ite what they are familiar with, and need to stay "busy" all day while I'm just content with a deck chair and a good book. 

 

Is there a way that we can marry the classic with the new? That's a marketing strategy to consider. There are some classic-oriented passengers in my age group, but where are they?

 

As a Millennial, I have no desire to sail on the benemouths of the seas/Frankenships but I do acklowdge that not many are of like minded. (I have yet to meet someone in my age group that loves the classic style as much as I do, and actually knows the classic ships that I name drop in conversations. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PromenadeDeckWriter

[RuthC]

3 hours ago, bouhunter said:

And actually the posts you're referencing weren't offensive in any way.  The poster was just stating facts about passenger demographics and the cruise industry.  There were no personal attacks or insults whatsoever.

Clearly, you don't recognize 'offensive' when you see it, or even when told by two posters that they found what was said offensive. 

[Lady Arwen]

3 minutes ago, RuthC said:

Clearly, you don't recognize 'offensive' when you see it, or even when told by two posters that they found what was said offensive. 

Well said, Ruth.  Unfortunately,  the worst offenders just don’t get it.

[bouhunter]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

They may not have been offensive to you, but you cannot speak for others.

 

Words are important in conveying not just meaning but tone. There is a huge difference between saying something like:

 

"HAL tends to attract a clientele that is more vulnerable to serious outcomes if infected with COVID-19, which could make it more difficult for them to re-start."

 

and 

 

"HAL needs to dump ... its older, sicker clientele."

 

See the difference?  

 

Sometimes truths may be unpleasant (i.e., the much higher mortality rate among older persons from COVID does pose a problem for cruise lines, particularly those who offer many long cruises), but they can be communicated with empathy.

Point taken.  Somehow I had missed his first comment about "dumping the older, sicker clientele".

[Dismomx5]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:38 PM, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

We've done inside a couple of times. It allowed us to sail more often. We've also done OV. In fact, I had an OV booked for Panama early next year. After returning from the March cruise on NCL, I called and upgraded, at a huge expense, to a Vista "suite". In the foreseeable future, we'll be more confident in a verandah. But, I loved the inside-and its savings-, and DH doesn't care one way or the other.

 

Aside from working on a vaccine, the medical community has been working on better ways to treat COVID. I'm hopeful that, with the two combined, cruising will-eventually- return. I have no desire for less than 10 (and prefer 20) day cruises.

[JeffElizabeth]

There are two great arguments for inside cabins. One, you can cruise for twice as long at the same price. And my brother loves inside cabins because he loves to sleep in after staying up all night.  There was a comment earlier about older people being more vulnerable.  It is true with the current data but I do wonder if seniors who travel are healthier than the general population.  For instance,  my father has COPD so travel is too burdensome for him. Holland America people are more likely to have a stronger immune system and mentally capable of taking care of themselves. 

[greensprout]

We had our first HAL cruise when hub and I were 40/42, and had 10/12 yo sons with us in the Mediterranean in 2008.  Amazing.  We have since cruised HAL another 4 times, once with kids over Christmas in the Caribbean, 2 with another good friend couple, and 2 with just us.  Now in early/mid 50s, we love the HAL amenities and atmosphere.  Chose to cancel the original booked 25 day around Hawaii and Mexican Rivera for Nov 2020 due to Covid.  Truly hope to be able to come back, but truly, don’t expect to until perhaps 2022 to be safe.  Have done Ocean view/veranda/ suite , wouldn’t rule out inside cabin, tho hub is fine with it, I’m a bit not cool with the no natural light, but may consider.  We don’t spend much time in the cabin, regardless.  Very much hoping to return sometime soon.... but are ok to wait for a while until world pandemic restrictions and risks are lowered.  Sad, as we are soon retiring so finally have the time for longer cruises (longest was 14d BTB).  

[TiogaCruiser]

7 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

I am glad that you can enjoy the amazing low prices that HAL offers on inside rooms.  There is certainly nothing wrong with getting your best price for a cruise.  Those who are able to sail in inside rooms are getting a great value.  It sounds like you establish a great rapport with the crew and generously reward them for their hard work.  Good for you and happy future cruising.

Not always are the prices “amazingly low” for an inside cabin. It totally depends on the itinerary and how well it’s selling. Cruises in areas that are already overpopulated by cruise ship will likely offer the “bargains” ( at several levels) you talk about. 
 

There have been several cruises I have taken that were not bargains. And sometimes a better location or cabin ( in our opinion) is more than an OV, depending on how they structure pricing (private sales, etc.)  

[CM1984]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:33 AM, DFD1 said:

This has become the Offensive Post thread....too bad.

 

 

Truly - how terribly sad.....................  BUT I guess I should not say this, however, all of these posts are pretty entertaining reading.... 

 

Here's my personal opinion - Inside/Outside/Balcony/Suites - whatever floats your boat!  I love HAL and hope it does fine - I'll not speculate for it serves no useful purpose to me.

Edited July 28, 2020 by CM1984

[Stateroom_Sailor]

20 hours ago, PromenadeDeckWriter said:

As a younger HAL passenger who sails with a similar mentality of the more experienced/wiser passengers that HAL attracts, I can attest to this. Not many in my age group are hooked on the classic style that I am, and prefer the more flashy foo foos. Maybe it's because ite what they are familiar with, and need to stay "busy" all day while I'm just content with a deck chair and a good book. 

 

Is there a way that we can marry the classic with the new? That's a marketing strategy to consider. There are some classic-oriented passengers in my age group, but where are they?

 

As a Millennial, I have no desire to sail on the benemouths of the seas/Frankenships but I do acklowdge that not many are of like minded. (I have yet to meet someone in my age group that loves the classic style as much as I do, and actually knows the classic ships that I name drop in conversations. 

 

I believe that Millennials are misunderstood in the travel industry, and that it wouldn't take drastic tweaking for HAL to be a valid option.  When the traveling bloggers I follow go to Las Vegas, they're not heading to Excalibur or Circus Circus for entertainment and party, or some fringe hipster hotel.  They care about quality, value, and experience, often times with a low key atmosphere.

[KirkNC]

I guess I approach this differently.  Carnival has multiple lines.  In my view each line should have a defined market niche that they target.  They should perfect their marketing and execution to dominate their assigned niche.  While they may get spill over from another niche, I.e. millennials may sale on HAL, that should not be  what they are about.  If every line is chasing everyone they end up not satisfying anyone and might as well fold the different lines into one.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

11 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I guess I approach this differently.  Carnival has multiple lines.  In my view each line should have a defined market niche that they target.  They should perfect their marketing and execution to dominate their assigned niche.  While they may get spill over from another niche, I.e. millennials may sale on HAL, that should not be  what they are about.  If every line is chasing everyone they end up not satisfying anyone and might as well fold the different lines into one.

Exactly. The whole point of having multiple lines is to capture a wide variety of target markets, not to compete against yourself.

[iancal]

We are in our late sixties.  Also not interested in the huge amusement park like ships.  But neither do we have any intention of sailing on older ships where regular mtce and cabin refurb has been deferred once to often.   

 

This may come as a surprise to some HAL loyalists but there are lots and lots of very well maintained ships in between these book ends.  Not only that, they can be found on a number of cruise lines offering service, in our experience, on a par with HAL.

 

IMHO HAL has been 'lost' for a few years.  Hopefully post covid HAL will get it's act together and decide what the company wants to be and what market they want to serve.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by iancal

[KirkNC]

49 minutes ago, iancal said:

We are in our late sixties.  Also not interested in the huge amusement park like ships.  But neither do we have any intention of sailing on older ships where regular mtce and cabin refurb has been deferred once to often.   

 

This may come as a surprise to some HAL loyalists but there are lots and lots of very well maintained ships in between these book ends.  Not only that, they can be found on a number of cruise lines offering service, in our experience, on a par with HAL.

 

IMHO HAL has been 'lost' for a few years.  Hopefully post covid HAL will get it's act together and decide what the company wants to be and what market they want to serve.

 

I hear you on the “deferred “ maintenance.  Our sailing on the Maasdam in the fall of 2019 was classic in that regard.  Great itinerary but the ship was in bad shape, buckets everywhere, broken this and that.  The highlight was on three separate occasions windows shattered,  one raining glass on the gangplank.   We ended up getting off 17 days early.

[ontheweb]

16 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I hear you on the “deferred “ maintenance.  Our sailing on the Maasdam in the fall of 2019 was classic in that regard.  Great itinerary but the ship was in bad shape, buckets everywhere, broken this and that.  The highlight was on three separate occasions windows shattered,  one raining glass on the gangplank.   We ended up getting off 17 days early.

We were on the Maasdam in the summer of 2018, and even met you guys as the only members of the roll call. Did the ship maintenance deteriorate that much in a year plus, or did we just not notice it?

 

(We are actually right  not supposed to be on a Princess ship, or on shore in Norway.)

[KirkNC]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We were on the Maasdam in the summer of 2018, and even met you guys as the only members of the roll call. Did the ship maintenance deteriorate that much in a year plus, or did we just not notice it?

 

(We are actually right  not supposed to be on a Princess ship, or on shore in Norway.)

Yes I remember, it was amazing what a year of no/little maintenance can do to a ship.  It was our third sailing on the Maasdam and we were very surprised how she had aged in a short period.

[ontheweb]

Just now, KirkNC said:

Yes I remember, it was amazing what a year of no/little maintenance can do to a ship.  It was our third sailing on the Maasdam and we were very surprised how she had aged in a short period.

Thanks, I did not remember any maintenance problems. 

 

It's too bad they let that happen. It's always easier to prevent than to deal with the consequences.

[iancal]

The first and last time a small older ship, the Veendam, made it to our short list our TA warned us off based on multiple feedback from her clients.  We listened and booked another ship/another cruise line.  That was several years ago.

 

As luck would have it I spoke to an older gentleman on that trip.  He claimed to be a four star or whatever Mariner.  His last two trips, within nine months of each other, were on Veendam.  He ended up, both times, in what he claimed his steward (whom he knew well from previous trips) referred to as the 'flood zone'.  AIr and flood issues both times.   He was apparently not a believer in 'third time lucky".  He did not seem to have an axe to grind and was quite matter of fact about it. 

 

Those two warnings  made us eliminate HAL's older, smaller ships from our selection process.  Not an issue because we always book a balcony cabin and the verandah offerings on those ships were seldom competitive to other offerings.   There are so many other wonderful ships and cruise lines to choose from in the marketplace-including HAL's newer ships.

Edited July 28, 2020 by iancal

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 hours ago, KirkNC said:

I guess I approach this differently.  Carnival has multiple lines.  In my view each line should have a defined market niche that they target.  They should perfect their marketing and execution to dominate their assigned niche.  While they may get spill over from another niche, I.e. millennials may sale on HAL, that should not be  what they are about.  If every line is chasing everyone they end up not satisfying anyone and might as well fold the different lines into one.

 

Chasing Millennials is a poor strategy, which we've recently witness on Celebrity.  The CEO now wants to switch to Gen X apparently, which I believe is missing the mark as well.

 

I see quite a few millennials enjoying their stays at Hyatt and Sheraton, flying on Delta and United.  They don't need to be overtly pandered to, and aren't concerned about the baby boomers enjoying the same hotel and flights.  Cruise Line niche should be based on personality, taste for travel and luxury, spanning multiple generations.

[RD64]

Deferred maintenance is a very valid point. I was on the Veendam July 2017, July 2018, and August/Sepember 2019.

 

Many maintenance issues persisted over the three years. The aft elevators - very rarely did all three elevators work - there was always at least one out of service. Last summer there was a lengthy power outage as well - luckily we were docked and not mid-Atlantic.

 

The aft pool - I think HAL just wants to forget this debacle - looking up towards the funnel - there were missing pieces of panel and railing. I commented on this three years in a row. I even sent pictures in to HAL management.

 

The loft area was used for storage, as were portions of the upper deck going forward - making for a junk yard appearance. The metal decking was blistering, faded, and peeling.

 

However - don’t get me wrong. Despite these issues I love the Veendam and would gladly go again. Inside maintenance - however - was spotless - the interior was always immaculate.