Required ship excursions if getting off the ship

[clo]

4 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Why the h.... are casinos still open in the states? 

Surely gaming and social distancing cannot occur

No wonder the USA has a problem !

With this view of the virus the European cruises will not happen in 2021 either IMHO........

Then these phoney masks..........

I think it's unlikely that there are many casinos like this one. It probably holds 100 people max, has no table games or poker room. It has a sports book but that's just a counter where you make your bets. The whole space is just slots and they've turned off every other one. You can be served a drink but you can't go to the bar and order one. I probably feel safer there than most groceries.

[cruisemom42]

47 minutes ago, clo said:

I think it's unlikely that there are many casinos like this one. It probably holds 100 people max, has no table games or poker room. It has a sports book but that's just a counter where you make your bets. The whole space is just slots and they've turned off every other one. You can be served a drink but you can't go to the bar and order one. I probably feel safer there than most groceries.

 

Given that your average slots machine is less than 3 feet wide, are you really social distancing, even if every other one is blocked?

[Aquahound]

5 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Why the h.... are casinos still open in the states? 

Surely gaming and social distancing cannot occur

No wonder the USA has a problem !

With this view of the virus the European cruises will not happen in 2021 either IMHO........

Then these phoney masks..........

 

I have to agree.  The biggest problem the US has right now is the "do as I say not as I do" attitude by the people who are most vocal.  As you see in this thread, certain people are not shy about flaming those who want to go on a cruise in the near future, even calling them names like "rabid," but they give themselves permission to go sit in a casino and brag about their masks with holes in the front.   Fortunately, these people are in the minority but unfortunately, these people are the most vocal.  I think there's plenty of evidence of this on this board.  Sad, actually.  😟

[Toofarfromthesea]

19 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

You have asked this question a number of times; I know I have answered it at least twice.

 

I do not understand why it is difficult to comprehend, or accept, that one can both UNDERSTAND the need to wear a mask and yet NOT ENJOY wearing it.  

 

I have tried any number of different masks and I do not like wearing them. They make me feel light-headed and headache-y. It's not a moral failing. I will wear it when I go about essential activities. However, I'm not eager to take a vacation where my enjoyment will be compromised by the discomfort. 

 

Perhaps you could find common cause with the authors of this article in The Atlantic who say: "Summoning compassion for people who have a hard time wearing masks ... isn’t such a tall order.  Masks don’t deprive people of oxygen, but they do make it harder to breathe freely. They fog up people’s glasses. They make noses itch and faces sweat."

 

Personally, I do not have your faith in ventilation systems in places like restaurants. I wouldn't eat in one right now, even with social distancing, and especially would not want to NOT wear a mask -- yet how could one eat or drink without removing one's mask?  So I don't go. 

 

 

Some people just have a hard time with people who don't make the same choices they do.  I am on the opposite side of clo as you are.  You are more stringent and I am less stringent.  She justifies scolding less stringent people because she is a self-appointed guardian of public safety.  But even more stringent people like you are also questionable because she has trouble wrapping her head around people acting differently than her.

I've watched the MSC video of their covid protocols under which they have cruised, successfully, for the past few weeks.  From the above I assume that you would not choose to cruise with these restrictions.  I have no problems cruising under those restrictions and plan to do so on 11/7 (fingers crossed).  And that is fine.  Grown adults making their own decisions within what the rules require.  There is no right or wrong, here - it is personal choice based on personal circumstance, personal knowledge, personal health, personal risk tolerance, even personal philosophy of life, etc.  

[cruisemom42]

31 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I've watched the MSC video of their covid protocols under which they have cruised, successfully, for the past few weeks.  From the above I assume that you would not choose to cruise with these restrictions.  I have no problems cruising under those restrictions and plan to do so on 11/7 (fingers crossed).  And that is fine.  Grown adults making their own decisions within what the rules require.  There is no right or wrong, here - it is personal choice based on personal circumstance, personal knowledge, personal health, personal risk tolerance, even personal philosophy of life, etc.  

 

I am fine with that philosophy when we are discussing completely voluntary activities -- you are right that I would not choose to cruise now, but if others want to do so under the required conditions, that is fine.

 

The only thing I would quibble about -- and perhaps you did not mean to imply it -- is that I think people who are engaged in essential activities like grocery shopping, visiting a doctor's office, going to a drug store, etc. deserve that others respect the rules in place for everyone's protection -- so masks, social distancing taken seriously. I would hate to think that my 94-year-old father on his once-weekly grocery store visit that makes up about 95% of all his outings now would be infected with COVID by an asymptomatic "spreader" -- as I am quite sure he would not survive.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I am fine with that philosophy when we are discussing completely voluntary activities -- you are right that I would not choose to cruise now, but if others want to do so under the required conditions, that is fine.

 

The only thing I would quibble about -- and perhaps you did not mean to imply it -- is that I think people who are engaged in essential activities like grocery shopping, visiting a doctor's office, going to a drug store, etc. deserve that others respect the rules in place for everyone's protection -- so masks, social distancing taken seriously. I would hate to think that my 94-year-old father on his once-weekly grocery store visit that makes up about 95% of all his outings now would be infected with COVID by an asymptomatic "spreader" -- as I am quite sure he would not survive.

 

 

I follow the rules even though I think most of them are absurd.  But I am a rules follower.  But there is no way I would scold someone else because they aren't following a rule that I think is absurd.  I am not the Guardian of Public Health and I wouldn't want the US to turn into East Germany.

OTOH, I also wouldn't put myself in harm's way if I was in the extremely vulnerable group.  And I wouldn't count on other people protecting me if I voluntarily put myself in harm's way.

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I also wouldn't put myself in harm's way if I was in the extremely vulnerable group.  And I wouldn't count on other people protecting me if I voluntarily put myself in harm's way.

 

I fear that some don't have a choice. 

[clo]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Given that your average slots machine is less than 3 feet wide, are you really social distancing, even if every other one is blocked?

They're not touching each other.

[jocap]

23 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

You have asked this question a number of times; I know I have answered it at least twice.

 

I do not understand why it is difficult to comprehend, or accept, that one can both UNDERSTAND the need to wear a mask and yet NOT ENJOY wearing it.  

 

I have tried any number of different masks and I do not like wearing them. They make me feel light-headed and headache-y. It's not a moral failing. I will wear it when I go about essential activities. However, I'm not eager to take a vacation where my enjoyment will be compromised by the discomfort. 

 

Perhaps you could find common cause with the authors of this article in The Atlantic who say: "Summoning compassion for people who have a hard time wearing masks ... isn’t such a tall order.  Masks don’t deprive people of oxygen, but they do make it harder to breathe freely. They fog up people’s glasses. They make noses itch and faces sweat."

 

Personally, I do not have your faith in ventilation systems in places like restaurants. I wouldn't eat in one right now, even with social distancing, and especially would not want to NOT wear a mask -- yet how could one eat or drink without removing one's mask?  So I don't go. 

 

 

We've bought some small nose guard sort of things from Amazon, which hold the mask just a fraction of a distance from your nose, and are supposed to help stop your glasses misting... I wore one for at least an hour, and it made a difference; OH said it didn't work for him. I don't know if they're worth you trying?

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I fear that some don't have a choice. 

 

There is almost always a choice.  Take your dad.  There are other ways he could get his groceries, but he chooses to go in person.  More power to him.

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

There is almost always a choice.  Take your dad.  There are other ways he could get his groceries, but he chooses to go in person.  More power to him.

Agreed.  A 94 yo person is in danger every flu season.  

[cruisemom42]

23 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

There is almost always a choice.  Take your dad.  There are other ways he could get his groceries, but he chooses to go in person.  More power to him.

 

15 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Agreed.  A 94 yo person is in danger every flu season.  

 

I wish others would not make assumptions. Without going into particulars, there is not any viable option for him to get all his groceries based on where he lives. And he and my mother (who is 88) lead a very secluded life and get their flu shots every season -- in fact, have already gotten them this year.

 

[Mary229]

9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

I wish others would not make assumptions. Without going into particulars, there is not any viable option for him to get all his groceries based on where he lives. And he and my mother (who is 88) lead a very secluded life and get their flu shots every season -- in fact, have already gotten them this year.

 

I guess we all went a bit astray or do they cruise also?    I really don't want to get away from the forum guidelines and stick with the topic.  Sorry that I strayed and offended you deeply

Edited September 27, 2020 by Mary229

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

There is almost always a choice.  Take your dad.  There are other ways he could get his groceries, but he chooses to go in person.  More power to him.

 

I think it is presumptuous to think everyone has the same options you do. In country towns in Australia there are hardly ever delivery options so you have to go to the shop or otherwise find a way to live without food🙄

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I am not the Guardian of Public Health and I wouldn't want the US to turn into East Germany.

 

Caring about vulnerable people in your society is not going to turn your country into a dictatorship. Talk about catastrophizing😂. Taiwan has somehow maintained their democracy despite all the Covid safe rules😉. 

[KirkNC]

So back on cruising with ships shore excursions, not for us.  The more I read about the initial new cruise world, the less likely we will be onboard.  My fear is that it is difficult to unwind those restrictions as circumstances change especially when the cruise line makes lots of money on a restriction.

Edited September 28, 2020 by KirkNC

[Toofarfromthesea]

18 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

I wish others would not make assumptions. Without going into particulars, there is not any viable option for him to get all his groceries based on where he lives. And he and my mother (who is 88) lead a very secluded life and get their flu shots every season -- in fact, have already gotten them this year.

 

 

He made a choice as to where to live.  Or someone made the choice for him.  In either case, he chooses the life he leads.

[2wheelin]

4 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

He made a choice as to where to live.  Or someone made the choice for him.  In either case, he chooses the life he leads.

Not everyone has all the choices you take for granted.

As an example, we live in a state with many rural farm families living and working on a farm. No one delivers groceries or anything else. Should they move to the city because a pandemic suddenly arose and it might be hard to get groceries—for a week—or maybe longer—no one knows how long.

[cruizergal70]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Not everyone has all the choices you take for granted.

As an example, we live in a state with many rural farm families living and working on a farm. No one delivers groceries or anything else. Should they move to the city because a pandemic suddenly arose and it might be hard to get groceries—for a week—or maybe longer—no one knows how long.

Well...no one could predict a pandemic.  However,  when one chooses to live in a rural community,  they are making a choice to give up some of the benefits of living in a more populous area. Be it availability of food delivery,  ride sharing, health care facilities,  etc.

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, cruizergal70 said:

Well...no one could predict a pandemic.  However,  when one chooses to live in a rural community,  they are making a choice to give up some of the benefits of living in a more populous area. Be it availability of food delivery,  ride sharing, health care facilities,  etc.

 

Totally agree.  Have you noticed on your cell phone bill that there is a line for a federal tax to help pay for cell phone infrastructure and for internet infrastructure to help to pay for these structures in rural areas.  As you said, they are living in these areas by choice.

 

DON

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

 

Totally agree.  Have you noticed on your cell phone bill that there is a line for a federal tax to help pay for cell phone infrastructure and for internet infrastructure to help to pay for these structures in rural areas.  As you said, they are living in these areas by choice.

 

DON

Maybe all the farmers can move to the city and you can grow your own food.

[cruizergal70]

21 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Maybe all the farmers can move to the city and you can grow your own food.

All of life's choices come with consequences.  The great thing is everyone can try to get the needed services in whatever area they live. There's money to be made. LOL.

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, donaldsc said:

Have you noticed on your cell phone bill that there is a line for a federal tax to help pay for cell phone infrastructure and for internet infrastructure to help to pay for these structures in rural areas. 

 

I have.  And, then, I wonder why do I have to specifically pay for such on my phone bill when it is a Federal and/or a State tax?  Why do our Federal and State income taxes not pay for such?

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, cruizergal70 said:

All of life's choices come with consequences.  The great thing is everyone can try to get the needed services in whatever area they live. There's money to be made. LOL.

 

Someone really needs get out of the city. Talk about out of touch 😳 This is exactly what the pandemic has revealed. We call these people essential workers but we pay them crap, deny them services and expect them to risk their health by working through the pandemic. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Someone really needs get out of the city. Talk about out of touch 😳

LOL. Having lived IN SF at one point, later we were 13 miles from even a small town. I know the mileage cause Bob had to go to the hardware store there three times in one day. When you're not a pro at this handyman stuff it takes a lot. We still chortle...painfully.