Bahamas cruises for FL residents only?

[Shipof6Fools]

Since we are throwing around figures on deaths rates. I would like to throw this number out. In the US for those of us 54 and under our death rate is only .21 percent (7.8 million cases vs 16648 deaths for 54 and under).  The flu only has a .1 death rate. So basically I am twice as likely to die from covid 19 than the flu. Hardly, worth destroying the economy.

[time4u2go]

17 minutes ago, Shipof6Fools said:

Since we are throwing around figures on deaths rates. I would like to throw this number out. In the US for those of us 54 and under our death rate is only .21 percent (7.8 million cases vs 16648 deaths for 54 and under).  The flu only has a .1 death rate. So basically I am twice as likely to die from covid 19 than the flu. Hardly, worth destroying the economy.

Is that .1 death rate for the flu for people 54 and under, or for all age groups combined?  If it's for all age groups, then you are obviously comparing apples and oranges.

Edited October 10, 2020 by time4u2go

[LXA350]

On 10/9/2020 at 7:34 PM, Crazy planning mom said:

The Quantum is scheduled to resume sailing in December in Singapore only for Singaporeans.

Could Royal restart Bahamas cruises in December but limit sailings initially to residents of Florida?

 

RCL could not have chosen a better place for restarting it's cruises than Singapore. It's probably the cleanest Country / City State in the World. Starting with cruises from there will give them a very safe entry point and give them a great way to trial the new protocols and where needed have them fine tuned.

 

The concept RCL presented on their Singapore website for the restart there and likely as well in other regions at a later stage is absolutely excellent and gives the passengers great confidence. There are almost no places on land where such a safe experience is provided. Even during normal times, a RCL ship is already much cleaner than most 5 Star hotels.

 

However I think the hopes for cruises to begin from Florida in December are at 0%, it's just again the RCL communication that decided to cancel cruises one more month out instead of finally presenting a concrete plan on what might be possible and what for sure will not happen.

If I read RCL correctly, then anything smaller than Voyager Class will not be sailing until earliest spring / summer next year and the first cruises out of Florida will not happen before January 2021.

 

If comparing Singapore and Forida it's taking one of the most developed countries in terms of health Care to a Country that has a health care system comparable to a 3rd world country.

[livingonthebeach]

27 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

If comparing Singapore and Forida it's taking one of the most developed countries in terms of health Care to a Country that has a health care system comparable to a 3rd world country.

Comparing Singapore to Florida?  Singapore is a Sovereign city island of roughly 5 million compared to a State which is part of the United States with a population of about 20 million. 
 

The reason why the Singaporean Health Care is deemed better to some is because the health care costs are much less in Singapore.  Why?  Because the government invests in public hospitals and pharmaceuticals are kept at a low level.  The consumer pays higher out of pocket costs and through payroll deductions, they get money taken out for health care which is mandatory.  That would not necessarily work in the United States. 
 

Other ways Singapore differs from the US:

Only 15 percent of Singaporeans have cars, and guns are outlawed.  Cigarette and alcohol taxes are prohibitive.  If only 15 per cent of Americans drove, did not own guns, didn’t drink, and had to pay more out of pocket expenses for health care, Florida and the entire US just might have a lower cost health care system. 

[LXA350]

11 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Comparing Singapore to Florida?  Singapore is a Sovereign city island of roughly 5 million compared to a State which is part of the United States with a population of about 20 million. 
 

The reason why the Singaporean Health Care is deemed better to some is because the health care costs are much less in Singapore.  Why?  Because the government invests in public hospitals and pharmaceuticals are kept at a low level.  The consumer pays higher out of pocket costs and through payroll deductions, they get money taken out for health care which is mandatory.  That would not necessarily work in the United States. 
 

Other ways Singapore differs from the US:

Only 15 percent of Singaporeans have cars, and guns are outlawed.  Cigarette and alcohol taxes are prohibitive.  If only 15 per cent of Americans drove, did not own guns, didn’t drink, and had to pay more out of pocket expenses for health care, Florida and the entire US just might have a lower cost health care system. 

 

I guess we shouldn't take this any further, otherwise it get's again to political and we will get into "Fake news" issues.

 

On the bottom line, back to the subject, Singapore is a great entry point and numbers have to go down before cruising can commence safely in the US.

[Tree_skier]

5 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

I saw your other postings on your reasoning and I disagree.  Death rates as of today according

We’ll have to agree to disagree. The metric you are using has no foundation in statistical analysis. Mine does. What I have observed however is that no amount of legitimate statistical analysis  will change someone’s mind who has consumed media for porn for 7 months. When people have become emotionally invested and deemed virtuous by the decisions made on their behalf by government, changing that opinion is almost impossible. 
 

I’m always going to default to liberty and question authoritarian and autocratic rule.   

[voyager70]

1 hour ago, LXA350 said:

 

RCL could not have chosen a better place for restarting it's cruises than Singapore. It's probably the cleanest Country / City State in the World. Starting with cruises from there will give them a very safe entry point and give them a great way to trial the new protocols and where needed have them fine tuned.

 

The concept RCL presented on their Singapore website for the restart there and likely as well in other regions at a later stage is absolutely excellent and gives the passengers great confidence. There are almost no places on land where such a safe experience is provided. Even during normal times, a RCL ship is already much cleaner than most 5 Star hotels.

 

However I think the hopes for cruises to begin from Florida in December are at 0%, it's just again the RCL communication that decided to cancel cruises one more month out instead of finally presenting a concrete plan on what might be possible and what for sure will not happen.

If I read RCL correctly, then anything smaller than Voyager Class will not be sailing until earliest spring / summer next year and the first cruises out of Florida will not happen before January 2021.

 

If comparing Singapore and Forida it's taking one of the most developed countries in terms of health Care to a Country that has a health care system comparable to a 3rd world country.

 

3rd world country?  Now I've heard it all.

[livingonthebeach]

21 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

 

I guess we shouldn't take this any further, otherwise it get's again to political and we will get into "Fake news" issues.

 

On the bottom line, back to the subject, Singapore is a great entry point and numbers have to go down before cruising can commence safely in the US.

You’re right, Singapore is a good restart port.  I was very much looking forward to my Hong Kong to Singapore cruise in February 2021 - alas it was cancelled by Celebrity.

As a native Floridian I felt compelled to defend my State.  Florida’s health care system has its problems, just like every State in the US, but it is certainly not comparable to that of a third-world Country.  ‘Nuf said. 

[Tree_skier]

29 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

 

3rd world country?  Now I've heard it all.

Hilarious 

[voyager70]

4 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Hilarious 

 

When my father was in the Cleveland Clinic for heart surgery there were people from all over the world who traveled there for their outstanding heart care. But yeah, we're 3rd world.

 

[Mapleleafforever]

23 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

It is a totally different picture when you look at it based on confirmed cases as just posted above.  And as we know the count in the US includes people who died with Covid not of it.  example... George Floyd.

Same thing is happening in Canada. City of Toronto Public Health has acknowledged it. 

[John Reid]

7 hours ago, Shipof6Fools said:

Since we are throwing around figures on deaths rates. I would like to throw this number out. In the US for those of us 54 and under our death rate is only .21 percent (7.8 million cases vs 16648 deaths for 54 and under).  The flu only has a .1 death rate. So basically I am twice as likely to die from covid 19 than the flu. Hardly, worth destroying the economy.

Wow! Large blue font and underlined.

Virus doesn't care what you believe.

[Domino D]

6 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. The metric you are using has no foundation in statistical analysis. Mine does. What I have observed however is that no amount of legitimate statistical analysis  will change someone’s mind who has consumed media for porn for 7 months. When people have become emotionally invested and deemed virtuous by the decisions made on their behalf by government, changing that opinion is almost impossible. 
 

I’m always going to default to liberty and question authoritarian and autocratic rule.   

 

I wasn't sure I should post on this discussion, as I don't want to get into the debate about calculations you all are using. However, since you indicated an understanding of statistical analysis, you must realize that the "likelihood" being discussed is not related to probability.   You can not use any of the numbers you or the other posters are discussing to predict future deaths.  The numbers and correlation change daily, and there are too many other factors that go into the relationship.  

 

Again, I'm not arguing your math or position, but rather your language.  I think it is dangerous to use the any of the percentages as an indicator of how likely someone is to die if they get Covid.  

 

If you want to frame it as one country has a higher death rate to date, that would be mathematically accurate. A country with a higher CFR or IFR does not equate to individuals being more likely to die.  Sorry in advance if this seems nitpicky.  I'm probably over sensitive to the use of "Likelihood",  but a lot of people I know and care about freak about statements like this.  

[Tree_skier]

19 minutes ago, Domino D said:

 

I wasn't sure I should post on this discussion, as I don't want to get into the debate about calculations you all are using. However, since you indicated an understanding of statistical analysis, you must realize that the "likelihood" being discussed is not related to probability.   You can not use any of the numbers you or the other posters are discussing to predict future deaths.  The numbers and correlation change daily, and there are too many other factors that go into the relationship.  

 

Again, I'm not arguing your math or position, but rather your language.  I think it is dangerous to use the any of the percentages as an indicator of how likely someone is to die if they get Covid.  

 

If you want to frame it as one country has a higher death rate to date, that would be mathematically accurate. A country with a higher CFR or IFR does not equate to individuals being more likely to die.  Sorry in advance if this seems nitpicky.  I'm probably over sensitive to the use of "Likelihood",  but a lot of people I know and care about freak about statements like this.  

Thank you for this post double D, I agree with you completely.  My position, which I have not been particularly good at articulating, is that all the statistics that are used to justify any position are relatively meaningless when compared across jurisdictions since there are too many variables across all data points. 

 

Even within a single country there is so much variation it renders comparisons meaningless.  As an example here in Canada the testing rate is 212518 per 1000000 people. However, in the province of BC the testing rate is 95871 per 1000000 people.  Is it because BC has a lower infection rate and a lower suspected case incidence or is lower infection rate a result of lower testing numbers.

 

You can't compare data across jurisdictions when there is no defined standard tabulating data.  My apologies for my inability to communicate effectively. 

 

Cruising should begin as soon as possible.  People who don't want to go can stay home.  Those that want to can go.  All the statistics in the world are meaningless.

[Domino D]

Just now, Tree_skier said:

You can't compare data across jurisdictions when there is no defined standard tabulating data.  My apologies for my inability to communicate effectively. 

 

Cruising should begin as soon as possible.  People who don't want to go can stay home.  Those that want to can go.  All the statistics in the world are meaningless.

 

Thanks tree, you certainly don't me an apology.  I understood you had a larger point and was just trying to find a way to get past the use of the term "likely".   As far as the statistics, my wife is a big cable news watcher, and I'm always having to remind her that the numbers she sees are not saying what she thinks.   

 

Can't really disagree with the spirit of your last sentence.  The cruise to nowhere, limited capacity,  and a lot of the other plans laid out by the cruise lines ought to be sufficient to lower the risk factors and allow some type of cruising.  Nothing is 100% safe.  It should be about reasonable risk.  At that point, it is an individual decision.  

[Tree_skier]

3 minutes ago, Domino D said:

The cruise to nowhere

When they restart, I think you'll see cruises that include Coco Cay, Cozumel and Costa Maya.  The Quintana Roo health authority has already shown some interest in allowing cruise ships back.  Last December I was in Cozumel when 9 ships were there. It was chaos. However,  limit that to 3 or 4 ships at 50% capacity on cruise line approved excursions and it will feel like a ghost town.  

[molly361]

I had thought that when they re-start they will start with whomever is already booked on MA and/or NV.  Now I'm wondering if they would just cancel everyone and then re-sell the short cruises whenever they decide to start again??

[Ourusualbeach]

3 hours ago, molly361 said:

I had thought that when they re-start they will start with whomever is already booked on MA and/or NV.  Now I'm wondering if they would just cancel everyone and then re-sell the short cruises whenever they decide to start again??

That would depend on how long they feel that they can only safely sail 3 or 4 day cruises.  
 

if the 3/4 day cruises is only meant as a test / get their feet wet for a month or so then I think it will be done on ships like MN or NV and the rest of the fleet will follow with their regularly scheduled sailings although with altered ports. 
 

 

 

[mugtech]

16 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Other ways Singapore differs from the US:

Only 15 percent of Singaporeans have cars, and guns are outlawed.  Cigarette and alcohol taxes are prohibitive.   

In addition it is illegal to spit, litter or feed birds.

[Iamcruzin]

On 10/9/2020 at 1:56 PM, molly361 said:

I think it should be limited to only people from Iowa😇

I agree they are land locked. Florida residents can go to the beach...🤣

[LXA350]

5 hours ago, molly361 said:

I had thought that when they re-start they will start with whomever is already booked on MA and/or NV.  Now I'm wondering if they would just cancel everyone and then re-sell the short cruises whenever they decide to start again??

 

Likely when RCL restarts in January they will have completely new itinaries for the first monts that can look as follows:

First Stage: 2-3 night cruises to no where

2nd Stage: 3-4 night cruises to Coco Cay (Coco Cay  - Sea Day - Coco Cay)

3rd Stage: 5-6 night cruises with stops both at Labadee and Coco Cay

 

After this (2-3 months after) we might start seeing the regular 3/4 night itinararies from Mariner and Navigator and more if situation allows it.

 

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

 

Likely when RCL restarts in January they will have completely new itinaries for the first monts that can look as follows:

First Stage: 2-3 night cruises to no where

2nd Stage: 3-4 night cruises to Coco Cay (Coco Cay  - Sea Day - Coco Cay)

3rd Stage: 5-6 night cruises with stops both at Labadee and Coco Cay

 

After this (2-3 months after) we might start seeing the regular 3/4 night itinararies from Mariner and Navigator and more if situation allows it.

 

 

Cruises to nowhere are not allowed out of US ports.  I wish they would temporarily lift that restriction.  Short cruises to the Caribbean are very likely to be the ones to start the reopening. 

[ssb]

Simply One of the days soon for sure ! 

Edited October 11, 2020 by ssb

[LXA350]

35 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Cruises to nowhere are not allowed out of US ports.  I wish they would temporarily lift that restriction.  Short cruises to the Caribbean are very likely to be the ones to start the reopening. 

 

Is there no way to get out of it, such as actually docking at Freeport for instance for a "Technical Stop" not letting anyone disembark?

 

If this woudn't be possibe then we will see them start with  2-3 day Coco Cay only cruises.

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, LXA350 said:

 

Is there no way to get out of it, such as actually docking at Freeport for instance for a "Technical Stop" not letting anyone disembark?

 

If this woudn't be possibe then we will see them start with  2-3 day Coco Cay only cruises.

Are the Bahamas even allowing passengers from the U. S.?