Will U.S. Passengers Comply with the Covid Requirements On Board?

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Such signs are everywhere in my area - and I do not think I have seen anyone in a store without one since April.  Just today I went to the post office, a grocery, a liquor store and a drug store — all with such signs and full compliance.   Also, deliverymen and service people coming to houses/apartments all wear them.   I think that is why (at least until very recently) CT has been able to largely control contagion.

 

 

In wish I had capitalized the words MEDICALLY ABLE. That was what I was trying to emphasize when I posted that. Note MEDICALLY ABLE means there is an exemption for MEDICAL  reasons.

[evandbob]

33 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

In wish I had capitalized the words MEDICALLY ABLE. That was what I was trying to emphasize when I posted that. Note MEDICALLY ABLE means there is an exemption for MEDICAL  reasons.

 

But some folk will try to find or create a loophole, just like with service dogs or age requirements. 

 

Would you believe that here in SW Florida, the state with the 4th highest # of deaths in the nation, people are still moaning & groaning about masks and social distancing, calling these measures unconstitutional, etc..  

 

 

[UnorigionalName]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:09 PM, ontheweb said:

I would say any disease that interferes with one's breathing.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 6:09 AM, CruiserBruce said:

I would be curious to hear what the medical conditions are that prevent wearing a mask. 

 

I am not aware of any respiratory/pulmonary disease where facemasks are contraindicated.  I would love to see if you can find a professional physicians group (like a real one, not those people willing to say anything for a dollar) that says otherwise. COPD and other lung diseases are not contra-indications.

(https://www.thoracic.org/about/newsroom/press-releases/journal/2020/face-masks-unlikely-to-cause-over-exposure-to-carbon-dioxide.php)

 

About the only condition I am aware of where it is a contraindication is severe psychiatric illnesses such as severe low-functioning autism.

Edited October 28, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

In wish I had capitalized the words MEDICALLY ABLE. That was what I was trying to emphasize when I posted that. Note MEDICALLY ABLE means there is an exemption for MEDICAL  reasons.

Unless there is a widely accepted definition of the term “MEDICALLY ABLE” it is pointless to throw those words around.  Many people can get their doctors to sign a note advising that they are better off not wearing a mask.

 

 If CDC came out with something along those lines it might make sense.  Even so - because cruising is an optional activity - it should be up to the cruise lines to establish the conditions.  

 

Nobody NEEDS to cruise. As long as there is a threat of a deadly contagious disease, it does not make sense for cruise lines to not take every precaution.  Then, as a practical matter, I sure as hell would not feel like booking a cruise unless EVERY practical precaution was in place - and letting possibly contagious people not adhere to reasonable precautions, for whatever reason, is not applying every practical precaution.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I thank you for the reasoned debate, but we are just going to end up agreeing to disagree. Maybe if there is a court case, we will really find out how the ADA applies.

 

The ADA is for the benefit of the handicapped. It cannot just be ignored because it would be inconvenient to not accommodate those who are afraid people not qualifying will demand the same accommodations. It also does not stretch to silly things like giving a drivers license to a blind person.  

 

 

 

I see no comments that would indicate this is an issue about "inconvenience".  Another example of an overly excessive response.   It is a safety issue during a pandemic.  And my silly statement about blind drivers was intended to show that common sense must prevail -- just like in a pandemic.   

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

I see no comments that would indicate this is an issue about "inconvenience".  Another example of an overly excessive response.   It is a safety issue during a pandemic.  And my silly statement about blind drivers was intended to show that common sense must prevail -- just like in a pandemic.   

Not only is this not an issue about “inconvenience”, there seems to be little common sense involved either.

[2wheelin]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

Come on now.  I never said the vulnerable or anyone else should stay home at all much less for years without company.  Implying that is just a little excessive.   What I said is why anyone with a respiratory problem so severe that they cannot even wear a mask, for even the most basic protection, would even consider going to a place where they would be heavily exposed to a virus that is deadly to them.  Not to mention they will be potentially exposing others.  

 

 There are few absolutes in life, meaning there will always be exceptions like your acquaintance.  Though I would be concerned that person might be among the higher at-risk from exposure to this pandemic and might want avoid a crowded cruise ship for a while.    

Sorry, I quoted and replied to you and then continued with a response to an earlier post without quoting the author. That was the one stating certain people should just stay put for the duration.

7 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

How do you propose separating out people with legitimate disabilities vs made up disabilities. Doesn't the ADA also not allow a business to ask about a person's disability? It's an unsolvable issue to say that IF you have a medical issue you don't have to wear a mask but I can't ask anything to confirm that you actually have a medical issue where you can't wear a mask. Really not sure how this is different from no shirt, no shoes, no service. I believe businesses have a right to refuse service. Yes, they have to make reasonable accommodations, but since most US based businesses offer carry out, drive through, delivery service, then those are reasonable accommodations. they don't have to let someone in without a mask. I don't believe cruising will have to abide by this either. A lot of things go off the table during a pandemic, like HIPPA. I cant tell you that in my profession, I have access to people's personal medical information, provided by their doctors, that relates to COVID. 

I don’t have to separate them out any more than I have to separate out any other disability claims. There could possibly also be an exemption for mask wearing where it is possible to ask for certification.?? Don’t think many people will go for carry out or drive through cruising.🤣

HIPPA is most definitely not off the table. It may be slightly relaxed but still very much regulated. People with a legitimate need to access medical information have always had that access but I certainly hope that you are not repeating anything outside those rules.

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

No, vulnerable people should not have to "just stay home". 
 

But there is a world of difference between going out (with appropriate precautions) to pick up a few groceries or a prescription, and undertaking a completely voluntary activity such as cruising where there is significant exposure to others. Especially before vaccines or effective treatments are widely available.

 

And btw, I have effectively been quarantining since I returned from Italy at the end of February -- first two weeks at the request of my company (due to the situation in Italy), then just when that period ended the US had the first few weeks of lockdown. Plus I live in an area where infection rates have been high almost from the start.

 

Since then my company -- a very solid, respected pharmaceutical company -- has kept sites closed and asked employees to work from home except for essential workers. To me, this is a clear signal that it is not safe to travel or to spend time in the company of others. Since February I have only filled up my tank once (and it is still half full); I have not visited friends or family nor have they visited me; I have not eaten in a restaurant or been to a bar.  I've been to the grocery or drugstore a handful of times but mostly use delivery.  And I have no plans to change these behaviors anytime soon.  And I don't even have any predisposing risk factors.

 

 

You’re working from home? If so, that is entirely different than an elderly person at home with no outside contact. You still have that network or contact? I was furloughed in March and felt really isolated and useless (I am 72 and work supplemental). I was able to work for the month of June transporting Covid samples and it was a life saver for me. I now go to the store, church, small family gatherings, etc. Companies are asking as many as possible to work from home, not because it is unsafe to travel or be around another person but because they wish to downsize the number of employees in one place. 

Mental health is just as important as physical health. I believe everyone should contribute by cutting back as much as they personally can but do take issue with those (not you) who think the older and vulnerable should be the only ones to be responsible for their own health.

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Such signs are everywhere in my area - and I do not think I have seen anyone in a store without one since April.  Just today I went to the post office, a grocery, a liquor store and a drug store — all with such signs and full compliance.   Also, deliverymen and service people coming to houses/apartments all wear them.   I think that is why (at least until very recently) CT has been able to largely control contagion.

 

 

The liquor store is certainly essential travel and exposure. 🙂

[Geobugs]

2 hours ago, evandbob said:

 

Would you believe that here in SW Florida, the state with the 4th highest # of deaths in the nation, people are still moaning & groaning about masks and social distancing, calling these measures unconstitutional, etc..  

 

Would you believe that in Marion County Florida, the Sheriff has forbidden masks for his deputies and will not enforce the mask rule, you rarely see a mask in town, and has some of the lowest Covid-19 positivity rates in Florida?  Maybe the Sheriff was right.

[navybankerteacher]

27 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

...

 

The liquor store is certainly essential travel and exposure. 🙂

You are the one who cannot seem to see any middle ground between ignoring COVID and risking spreading it - and holing  up like a hermit for years.  

 

Intelligent peope will avoid crowded bars but can still enjoy wine with dinner at home -

NEWS FLASH:  going to a store in which you and others wear masks and practice distancing and washing hands upon getting home enables you to avoid the hermit life you keep referring to.

Edited October 28, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

 

I don’t have to separate them out any more than I have to separate out any other disability claims. There could possibly also be an exemption for mask wearing where it is possible to ask for certification.?? 

ok, ill bite. If the cruise lines required you to provide information from your doctor detailing what your medical need for no mask is and why wearing a mask is more dentrimental to you than not wearing one is to others AND the medical staff on the ship agrees AND you submit to daily Covid testing I would be ok with that. But not simply someone saying ‘I can’t wear a mask’ or a doctors note saying  you can’t wear a mask because there’s no way to verify that those excuses are legitimate. The danger posed by people making up their own reasons for why they can’t wear a mask outweighs is too great.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Unless there is a widely accepted definition of the term “MEDICALLY ABLE” it is pointless to throw those words around.  Many people can get their doctors to sign a note advising that they are better off not wearing a mask.

 

 If CDC came out with something along those lines it might make sense.  Even so - because cruising is an optional activity - it should be up to the cruise lines to establish the conditions.  

 

Nobody NEEDS to cruise. As long as there is a threat of a deadly contagious disease, it does not make sense for cruise lines to not take every precaution.  Then, as a practical matter, I sure as hell would not feel like booking a cruise unless EVERY practical precaution was in place - and letting possibly contagious people not adhere to reasonable precautions, for whatever reason, is not applying every practical precaution.

Then why are the signs adding the words MEDICALLY ABLE? Wouldn't it be even more important to keep "dangerous" people out of places essential for others? Those who are not medically able could have delivery or someone go for them. 

 

And you shot down why someone might not consider a liquor store essential, but how about a gun shop?

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

You are the one who cannot seem to see any middle ground between ignoring COVID and risking spreading it - and holing  up like a hermit for years.  

 

Intelligent peope will avoid crowded bars but can still enjoy wine with dinner at home -

NEWS FLASH:  going to a store in which you and others wear masks and practice distancing and washing hands upon getting home enables you to avoid the hermit life you keep referring to.

BTW, I don't think the opportunity for you to have wine with your dinner is why liquor stores are classified as essential. Our son, who is a drug and alcohol counselor, told me near the beginning of this mess that the reason was to keep alcoholics from having DTs and further burdening the hospitals that were trying to deal with the Covid crisis.

[njhorseman]

53 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And you shot down why someone might not consider a liquor store essential, but how about a gun shop?

There was a threat from the federal government to sue any states that prevented legal firearm sales for violating second amendment rights to own a firearm, so the decision was made to allow gun shops to remain open.

[2wheelin]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

You are the one who cannot seem to see any middle ground between ignoring COVID and risking spreading it - and holing  up like a hermit for years.  

 

Intelligent peope will avoid crowded bars but can still enjoy wine with dinner at home -

NEWS FLASH:  going to a store in which you and others wear masks and practice distancing and washing hands upon getting home enables you to avoid the hermit life you keep referring to.

No, I am the one in the middle ground. I go out—to the store, to a restaurant, to the liquor store, to church. I don’t go to a bar which does not enforce distancing, or to protest marches, or to a wedding without masks. I did just fly across the country—perfectly safely. I just have a problem with those who justify everything they do but disparage others for their choices which may be just as safe. Even up to 10% of people not wearing masks—provided they are not coughing directly on others—is safe—IMO which is backed by common sense.

There is more to exposure than passing within 6 ft of someone without a mask, even if they are infected.

I wear a mask when required and distance when possible but I believe there is more resistance because of all the “stupid” rules made to dumb down the regulations so no one has to think. For instance, there is no reason to have one way aisles in stores. You just pass by the other shopper and continue on. No exposure. One way aisles only serve to keep you in the store longer by the need to traverse more aisles to get where you want. One of our local stores in the beginning made it so you had to cover the entire store to get through. You could only turn one way at the end of each aisle. I never went back.

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

No, I am the one in the middle ground. I go out—to the store, to a restaurant, to the liquor store, to church. I don’t go to a bar which does not enforce distancing, or to protest marches, or to a wedding without masks. I did just fly across the country—perfectly safely. I just have a problem with those who justify everything they do but disparage others for their choices which may be just as safe. Even up to 10% of people not wearing masks—provided they are not coughing directly on others—is safe—IMO which is backed by common sense.

There is more to exposure than passing within 6 ft of someone without a mask, even if they are infected.

I wear a mask when required and distance when possible but I believe there is more resistance because of all the “stupid” rules made to dumb down the regulations so no one has to think. For instance, there is no reason to have one way aisles in stores. You just pass by the other shopper and continue on. No exposure. One way aisles only serve to keep you in the store longer by the need to traverse more aisles to get where you want. One of our local stores in the beginning made it so you had to cover the entire store to get through. You could only turn one way at the end of each aisle. I never went back.

 

Did you ever think that the stores are using this as a merchandising gimmick.  Instead of going directly to the spot where you know that the stuff that you want is,  they try to force you to walk down  a whole bunch of aisles so you end up buying stuff that you don't need.  You have the right idea.  Either ignore the 1 way aisles or don't some back.

 

DON

[ColeThornton]

12 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

Did you ever think that the stores are using this as a merchandising gimmick.  Instead of going directly to the spot where you know that the stuff that you want is,  they try to force you to walk down  a whole bunch of aisles so you end up buying stuff that you don't need

 

 

No, in our area it was a government generated restriction.  Thankfully it's no longer in effect.

[sanger727]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Then why are the signs adding the words MEDICALLY ABLE? Wouldn't it be even more important to keep "dangerous" people out of places essential for others? Those who are not medically able could have delivery or someone go for them. 

 

And you shot down why someone might not consider a liquor store essential, but how about a gun shop?

 

No stores in my area have signs that mention "medically able", including national chains. They all have signs that say "masks mandatory" and they advise you that if you aren't medically able to wear a mask that drive through and delivery options are available. 

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Then why are the signs adding the words MEDICALLY ABLE? Wouldn't it be even more important to keep "dangerous" people out of places essential for others? Those who are not medically able could have delivery or someone go for them. 

 

And you shot down why someone might not consider a liquor store essential, but how about a gun shop?

I have not seen any “MEDICALLY ABLE” qualifying additions to the “Face Masks Required” signs in my area.   That would be a sure way  to invite non-compliance.

[sail7seas]

On 10/26/2020 at 7:59 PM, ontheweb said:

So you would make a person with a handicap quarantine for the rest of her life? The aim of the Americans with Disabilities Act is the exact opposite. It is to encourage them to a lead a full life and not be discriminated against.

 

 

Wowzee,

 

 

extreme much?

 

 

What do you suggest as solution/options?

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

2 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Did you ever think that the stores are using this as a merchandising gimmick.  Instead of going directly to the spot where you know that the stuff that you want is,  they try to force you to walk down  a whole bunch of aisles so you end up buying stuff that you don't need.  You have the right idea.  Either ignore the 1 way aisles or don't some back.

 

DON

 

 

 

🙂   Choose another market in which to spend your money,  shop.......

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

And let them know why you and all your bff's stopped shopping at their market      ThAT is how you make your point.

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

22 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Such signs are everywhere in my area - and I do not think I have seen anyone in a store without one since April.  Just today I went to the post office, a grocery, a liquor store and a drug store — all with such signs and full compliance.   Also, deliverymen and service people coming to houses/apartments all wear them.   I think that is why (at least until very recently) CT has been able to largely control contagion.

 

 

Many places of  business have posted signs on their entry doors,     " No mask/ face covering:  No service"

 

 'DO NOT enter without wearing  a mask or face covering."

 

 

[sail7seas]

In my corner of the world, we  have enough actual current problems  to deal with and hypothetical, not yet actual issues  get no priority let alone, anger, expressed or not.

 

Wear your masks,

 

 

 

hopefully it  will help the world  rid   itself of this monster plague.

 

In one way or another most of us have suffered since the worldwide spread

 

France just announced a new national lockdown which  will  begin Friday but schools will remain open.

 

 

[Geobugs]

Here is a new dirty little secret about Covid-19 and Hospitals.   I have confirmed this with both Doctors and Nurses. Due to a shortage in healthcare professionals, if a Doctor or Nurse tests positive for Covid-19, they WILL continue to work and provide medical care, as long as they don't have symptoms.  Asystematic medical professionals, who test positive for Covid-19 will continue to treat patients.  And those medical professionals who test positive will not have to tell you of their diagnosis.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, njhorseman said:

There was a threat from the federal government to sue any states that prevented legal firearm sales for violating second amendment rights to own a firearm, so the decision was made to allow gun shops to remain open.

OK, that makes sense as to why gun shops are included among the essential even in a state like NY where given the states laws concerning guns you would expect the opposite.