The Length of time between cruises in the US in the Covid era?

[cruisemom42]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:01 PM, Hlitner said:

Now compare all this to somebody simply jumping on a flight and flying to Mexico for a week vacation.  There is no need for testing, lots of options for dining, beaches, etc.  without having to take a mandatory excursion.  Islands in the Caribbean are gradually reopening for business with relatively few restrictions. 

 

On the other hand, as regards travel to Mexico, the US Dept of State still has a Level 3 (Reconsider Travel) warning and the CDC has issued a Level 4 (highest) Travel Health Notice for Mexico due to threat of COVID-19 infection. The exact wording of the first bullet point of the CDC warning is "Travelers should avoid all travel to Mexico."

 

I'm not sure which Caribbean islands are opening up, but all of the ones I checked also have the same Level 4 CDC warning including St. Martin, the Bahamas, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, and Jamaica, among others....

 

At this point, though we are all longing for some travel or at least a change of view, the smartest thing is to stay put.

 

 

 

 

 

[evandbob]

I am not religious, but here is another viewpoint:

 

• The pontiff said in his address: "But those people, good people, did they not think about those who stayed at home, about the economic problems faced by many people who have been floored by the lockdown, about the sick? They thought only about taking a holiday for their own pleasure. This pained me greatly."

•  

[clo]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

At this point, though we are all longing for some travel or at least a change of view, the smartest thing is to stay put.

 

Yep. Just because we're not banned it in no way means that we should be doing it. Common sense?

[clo]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Ahh, but will Canada take you?  Today we flew into Mexico with no hassles, no required testing, etc.  The only thing we had to do, COVID related, was fill out a very short health form which nobody even bothered to collect.   We normally drive up to Canada a couple of times a year for short vacations/wine tasting.  But since last Spring we are no longer welcome in Canada.  By the way, here in Puerto Vallarta nearly half the gringo tourists and expats are from Canada.  So, while you are trying to get into Canada many Canadians are spending their winters in Mexico in places like Puerto Vallarta, Cabo and Lake Chapala.  

 

Hank

Watch my lips 🙂 I'd rather stay home than go to Mexico!  Or the Caribbean.

[SelectSys]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Funny thing about Mexico.  For decades both DW and I had no interest in Mexico... after 2 weeks DW woke up one morning to the sounds of the crashing waves (we are ocean front) and said, "I like this place."  Now, more then 15 years later and having spent over 2 years of our lives in Puerto Vallarta we consider it our 2nd home.  We could live anywhere in the world in our winter months but PV is where we choose to be

 

I also view Mexico as my "segundo hogar."  To be honest, Mexico has so much to offer in so many different areas that one can spend a life discovering the county's treasures.  For me, my interest in Mexico goes beyond the normal coastal resort towns and cities.  

 

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Canadians are spending their winters in Mexico in places like Puerto Vallarta, Cabo and Lake Chapala

 

I don't really understand the attraction of Chapala/Ajijic as a place to live as it seems too quiet for my tastes.  

 

I am curious whether or not the Canadians have come this year.  My brother has a house in Palm Desert area where at least 1/3 the neighbors are from Western Canada.    He was there over New Years and said hardly any of them came for the winter.

 

BTW - I have yet to cross the border and my last visit was to PV for MLK weekend just about a year ago.

Edited January 4, 2021 by SelectSys

[SelectSys]

4 hours ago, evandbob said:

I am not religious, but here is another viewpoint:

 

• The pontiff said in his address: "But those people, good people, did they not think about those who stayed at home, about the economic problems faced by many people who have been floored by the lockdown, about the sick? They thought only about taking a holiday for their own pleasure. This pained me greatly."

•  

 

I hope we aren't going to have another discussion regarding the morality of travel.  The Pope's comments, regardless of whether you view him as a credible moral/religious authority or not, could be made at any time.

[JRG]

On 12/28/2020 at 3:40 PM, Hlitner said:

As you would likely surmise, some of these folks likely brought the virus onboard with them at embarkation since none of the tests are effective at detecting recent exposure.   Any passenger exposed to COVID during their travels to the embarkation port will likely test negative until a few days after they board the ship.  IMHO the alternative to a no vaccination policy is NO CRUISE.

 

Of all the posts in this thread,  this one stands out to me because it illustrates what the bigger problem is in battling Covid-19 and that is the asymptomatic evasiveness.

 

My guess is that the cruiselines will require proof of vaccination.   Sure this will keep non-vaxers away but there still should be enough Vaccinated PAX to fill limited cabin capacities.   I also think the 7 day limit is to avoid long distance rescue operations keeping things closer to port.

 

The bigger problem is detecting the virus in the unsuspecting carrier.   

 

In the fictitious story Sherlock Holmes vs the Invisible Bug,   he relied upon his powers of deductive reasoning to solve a similar problem and of course,  he saved the day.   It was such a simple obvious solution when he l

Edited January 4, 2021 by JRG

[Zach1213]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I also view Mexico as my "segundo hogar."  To be honest, Mexico has so much to offer in so many different areas that one can spend a life discovering the county's treasures.  For me, my interest in Mexico goes beyond the normal coastal resort towns and cities.  

 

 

I have been to Mexico about...15 times? Something like that. The only time I have ever seen the water is in Tijuana. I always end up in Mexico City, Queretaro, Monterrey, Oaxaca. Also a couple of border towns/cities like Juarez and Tecate (and Tijuana, as mentioned above). Such a great country. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Zach1213

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I also view Mexico as my "segundo hogar."  To be honest, Mexico has so much to offer in so many different areas that one can spend a life discovering the county's treasures.  For me, my interest in Mexico goes beyond the normal coastal resort towns and cities.  

 

 

I don't really understand the attraction of Chapala/Ajijic as a place to live as it seems too quiet for my tastes.  

 

I am curious whether or not the Canadians have come this year.  My brother has a house in Palm Desert area where at least 1/3 the neighbors are from Western Canada.    He was there over New Years and said hardly any of them came for the winter.

 

BTW - I have yet to cross the border and my last visit was to PV for MLK weekend just about a year ago.

Many Canadians and Americans have stayed home this year.  Our Condo building which is normally full this time of the year is probably no more then half full and we have heard some similar stories.  That being said we do have both Canadian and American friends who got here last month but these our folks who have their own places.   PV is on somewhat of a lockdown until Jan 10 and this has probably kept some folks away from town since the nearby State of Nayarit (think Nuevo Vallarta, Bucerias, and Sayulita) are not in a red lock down.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, clo said:

Watch my lips 🙂 I'd rather stay home than go to Mexico!  Or the Caribbean.

Watch my lips as a nice margarita passes through..not to mention the fabulous food we get here in PV.  Today the beach was lovely (temps about 80) with no problem social distancing.  Of course we could be sitting home in freezing weather relaxing with a book or watching TV.  Down here we have to put up with a nice day on beach with temps in the low 80s, great food/drink, and the wonderful sound of crashing waves.  Tough decision.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

delete

 

[clo]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Watch my lips as a nice margarita passes through..not to mention the fabulous food we get here in PV.  Today the beach was lovely (temps about 80) with no problem social distancing.  Of course we could be sitting home in freezing weather relaxing with a book or watching TV.  Down here we have to put up with a nice day on beach with temps in the low 80s, great food/drink, and the wonderful sound of crashing waves.  Tough decision.

 

Hank

LOL. Speaking of margaritas and food tomorrow is Taco Tuesday at our fave Mexican place - we have GREAT Mexican food out West. 80 degrees - yuck, too hot. Beach - ugh, hate sand and sun.  Our weather has been perfect. 20s at night, high 40s to 50 during the day. It was down into the teens for a while recently and I haven't worn more than a sweater and khakis so far. You can keep Mexico.

 

 

[Hlitner]

We can agree those tacos look delicious.  Might actually go out and have tacos tonight before we see one of our favorite group of musicians.

 

 

[gmjc2]

Mayan ruins and snorkeling!!  Love Mexico for those reasons BUT can't eat the food or drink anything not bottled and sealed. Several medical issues could be VERY much affected by Montezuma's revenge!!!  So can only go there with a cruise shore excursion. Eat only on the ship!!!

As for Canadian snowbirds--our friends from Ontario did not come this year. We are having to watch there winter home for them in Florida. They say that they cannot cross the border so how are these others getting here??

[clo]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We can agree those tacos look delicious.  Might actually go out and have tacos tonight before we see one of our favorite group of musicians.

 

 

Forgot to mention that they're $1.25 each.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, clo said:

Forgot to mention that they're $1.25 each.

OMG!  A real budget buster 🙂

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

OMG!  A real budget buster 🙂

Definitely! We make up for it with top shelf tequila 🙂 Our fave tacos are pastor, carne asada and pez.

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, clo said:

Definitely! We make up for it with top shelf tequila 🙂 Our fave tacos are pastor, carne asada and pez.

We think that best Al Pastor are found at Pancho Tacos here in Puerto Vallarta.  Folks line up down the block to get into the tiny place where a taco costs about 85 cents.  Another budget buster.  Sadly there is no social distancing in that venue so we might have to pass on visiting this winter.  

 

Hank

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

We think that best Al Pastor are found at Pancho Tacos here in Puerto Vallarta.  Folks line up down the block to get into the tiny place where a taco costs about 85 cents.  Another budget buster.  Sadly there is no social distancing in that venue so we might have to pass on visiting this winter.  

 

Hank

Our fave place which is across the border into CA (40 miles) is takeout only And we're not supposed to be there. So we aren't.

[sanger727]

On 1/4/2021 at 6:42 PM, clo said:

LOL. Speaking of margaritas and food tomorrow is Taco Tuesday at our fave Mexican place - we have GREAT Mexican food out West. 80 degrees - yuck, too hot. Beach - ugh, hate sand and sun.  Our weather has been perfect. 20s at night, high 40s to 50 during the day. It was down into the teens for a while recently and I haven't worn more than a sweater and khakis so far. You can keep Mexico.

 

 

40s/50s during the day fits in the category of ‘tolerable’ for me. For me, 80s and sunny is wonderful. Love hot weather. And there’s nothing more relaxing to me than listening to the sound of waves crashing on the beach.

 

On 12/18/2020 at 1:57 PM, ontheweb said:

I have also wondered about the reasoning about no longer than 7 days. The mandate of the CDC is to keep the virus from entering the country. So someone goes on a cruise. They very likely got there by airplane. And even if one assumes the airplane trip is safe, it is hard to see how there was safe social distancing in the airport. So hypothetically, they catch the virus, but get a false negative because they have just caught it. Since people have been asked to quarantine for now 10 days (down from 7, maybe they are still not showing but have it after 7 days. And then they return to the USA. But if the cruise was longer, they would either be free from the virus as they did not catch it or would be showing symptoms. Another reason why the 7 day limit seems counterproductive to keeping returning cruisers from bringing the virus into the USA.

If the cruise was 12 days then the person who initially caught the virus may be virus free when the ship returns. But not the people they spread it to, and the people those people spread it to, and the people those people spread it to...

[Joebucks]

On 12/18/2020 at 12:17 PM, jebhoward3 said:

It's probably just me, but I do not understand only 7 day cruises.  To me it would make more sense  to have much longer cruises and eliminate the short ones.  Less exposure to whatever virus is going around with fewer changes of people. 

 

Think of it like a large family that live in the same home, say 12 people.  Every 7 days 6 of them leave and 6 other extended family members arrive (possibly bring with them the virus that one of them caught from the previous large family that they just left.   And this goes on and on.

 

It would be much safer to cruise on a longer cruise with less exposure than to keep changing passengers.  Now if it the CDC's intent to keep cruise ships close to a US port in-case someone tests positive and needs removed from the ship, then they should state it that way.  Longer cruises could still happen doing that.

 

I do not understand this logic in the slightest. If anything, I believe the complete opposite. Shorter cruises would be better for the cruise lines right now. We all witnessed when COVID started to hit the ships. Nearly all of the biggest liabilities came from the longer itineraries. More exposure to each other on and off the ship, more time for the virus to incubate, more time for symptoms to develop. Time is not on the cruise line's side.

 

If cruise lines did 4-5 day cruises, with a mandatory test on embarkation, there is much less of a chance symptoms develop while on the ship, less people desperately needing ICU care, etc. They would be turning the passengers quick enough to throw their hands up and say "people weren't sick on board". That need to show people aren't sick and dying while on board. Someone trying to justify longer cruises because that is what they like doesn't change that.

[ontheweb]

4 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I do not understand this logic in the slightest. If anything, I believe the complete opposite. Shorter cruises would be better for the cruise lines right now. We all witnessed when COVID started to hit the ships. Nearly all of the biggest liabilities came from the longer itineraries. More exposure to each other on and off the ship, more time for the virus to incubate, more time for symptoms to develop. Time is not on the cruise line's side.

 

If cruise lines did 4-5 day cruises, with a mandatory test on embarkation, there is much less of a chance symptoms develop while on the ship, less people desperately needing ICU care, etc. They would be turning the passengers quick enough to throw their hands up and say "people weren't sick on board". That need to show people aren't sick and dying while on board. Someone trying to justify longer cruises because that is what they like doesn't change that.

But what happens when through contact tracing they show that those cruisers who did not yet show serious symptoms on the ship start spreading the virus back to their communities?

[Joebucks]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But what happens when through contact tracing they show that those cruisers who did not yet show serious symptoms on the ship start spreading the virus back to their communities?

 

I never said there is a perfect scenario for cruising at the moment. Contact tracing would take the back-seat for many when compared to people dying on board, quarantines, etc. 

 

And to my original point, the longer cruise does nothing to help this either. I have never in my life heard of taking a risks in big doses, rather than trying little by little to see what works.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Joebucks

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I never said there is a perfect scenario for cruising at the moment. Contact tracing would take the back-seat for many when compared to people dying on board, quarantines, etc. 

 

And to my original point, the longer cruise does nothing to help this either. I have never in my life heard of taking a risks in big doses, rather than trying little by little to see what works.

People died onboard because ports would not let passengers disembark and be hospitalized. And that of course led to the rapid spread of the virus on those ships.