Mandatory vaccination

[BoozinCroozin]

47 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Eventually, all (U.S.) citizens will have access to the vaccine.  All will be permitted to get it.  Depends on where you fall in the que.  

 

Agree though, just because you're young and may not be as susceptible as others, you can still be a carrier.

 

I'm thinking there will be no exceptions with the vaccine requirement, regardless of age or circumstance.

Age discrimination comes into play as a requirement. Yes, within the next 3-4 months all Groups will be eligible to get the vaccine. However, there is only one vaccine for 16 and older and no vaccine for under 16. They will have an extremely difficult time against lawsuits for families that have booked cruises with children under 16 and tell them they cannot go. Yes, children can be carriers and so can 99yo Grandma Maude who got the vaccine 3 weeks ago. Because of the number of people this would affect, it would move from just a simple complaint to Class Action. It is very easily solved by "In order to sail all passengers that are eligible to be vaccinated must be vaccinated." It would be far less costly to go with that statement. Plus, if children under 16 can go to in-person school without a vaccine, they can surely go on a cruise without one as well.

 

Group 3 begins next week (02/24). Group 4 will probably follow in about 6-8 weeks after. Group 5 will probably be starting by July 1 as Novavax, J&J, and the current ones ramped up massive production.

Edited February 19, 2021 by BoozinCroozin

[macandlucy]

45 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Eventually, all (U.S.) citizens will have access to the vaccine.  All will be permitted to get it.  Depends on where you fall in the que.  

 

Agree though, just because you're young and may not be as susceptible as others, you can still be a carrier.

 

I'm thinking there will be no exceptions with the vaccine requirement, regardless of age or circumstance.

Sincere (genuine, curiosity based :) question for you: If *you* are vaccinated, do you believe you have reasonable cause to worry about a carrier? 

Yes, it's true the carrier can spread covid, which you could theoretically breathe in, but since you are vaccinated, your immune system will now (90% plus chance) recognize the covid virus and deal with it so you don't get sick.  

(And even with vaccines, we'll still have some protocols in place, so in fairness, you'd have to not follow them to even be in a situation where you would allow yourself to get infected, AND you'd have to be the unlucky person who does all this with the person who somehow bypasses the covid tests with a false negative, but side issue).

 

Are you thinking here more about the lower probability that you will be in the 10% group, AND unlucky enough to encounter the false negative person on the ship AND also not practice your own respiratory/hand hygiene and ignore distancing rules, etc. It's possible to be that unlucky, but how possible? To my mind, it seems like it would be hard to catch covid anywhere where all of these requirements are met and all rules are followed. 

[graphicguy]

Discrimination isn't an issue if EVERYONE must be inoculated.  It WOULD be an issue if only a certain group had to be inoculated based on age.

 

Aged 6, 16, 66, 96 and their associated risks because of age doesn't come into it.  Cruise lines aren't going to accept the arguments of whether one group or another is more likely to transmit.  Heck, 15 year old Janey may not be susceptible, but she can transmit via touch.  Plus, as much as cruise lines implement "washy-washy" routines, I always see some people (usually kids) who do their best to circumvent the routine.

 

The ONLY way to guarantee healthy cruising is to require ALL passengers to be inoculated.  Last thing any cruise line wants is once they head out sea again is to come back with ANY passenger who was diagnosed with COVID and the ENTIRE ship manifest of crew and passengers having to be quarantined.

 

So, stands to reason, any sailings, once they start up, will not discriminate who can/can't sail based on their vaccine status.  Regardless of the reason, if you haven't received the vaccine, you aren't sailing.

[hamrag]

1 hour ago, macandlucy said:

....Personally, I would not cruise unless I had been vaccinated. And if I'm vaccinated, I don't care, on a personal level, whether everyone is vaccinated or not. With everything I am already doing, prevention-wise, plus a vaccine, that's more than enough layers of protection for me to feel it's safe enough. The around 90% protection from a vaccine, plus the distancing, hand hygiene and most importantly *effective* mask (95% effective against aerosols) I would wear brings the risk of infection to extremely low levels.

 

But wouldn't you care if the ship you were on had multi COVID-19 cases, and all passengers were quarantined at sea until the outbreak was under control? I'd wager, in that scenario, that those who claimed not to care would now wish that everyone aboard had been vaccinated!

[moto_italia]

Not sure how the phase determination works in all states, but in Tennessee, if you're 55 years old and have a BMI greater than 30, you're in Phase 1c, which is estimated to be available in March-April timeframe.

If that were true everywhere, what % of cruisers would you estimate would be in that phase or sooner? 

[prov2727]

3 hours ago, hallux said:

. . . .  However - the research on transmission by a vaccinated individual is not yet complete, so even with the entire ship vaccinated there's a chance you could still get sick, however "weak" the symptoms may be.

I think that could be a very real issue. Now, we know there are some people who are asymptomatic but with the vaccine, we are creating millions who can spread the virus never knowing that they are doing so.

[ArthurUSCG]

I suspect the decision will be forced by the Nations that the lines wish to dock.

If Grand Cayman says the only way back is to have 100% vaccination rate then that will be the requirement for the cruise. If the Bahamas requires it, then it will be a requirement.

 

I could also see some of the cruise lines that target retirees have the vaccine requirement as a way to boost the bottom line. Based on the current vaccination demographics, the upper income brackets have a higher vaccination rate. What better way to boost onboard sales then to target those with more disposable income.

[macandlucy]

23 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

But wouldn't you care if the ship you were on had multi COVID-19 cases, and all passengers were quarantined at sea until the outbreak was under control? I'd wager, in that scenario, that those who claimed not to care would now wish that everyone aboard had been vaccinated!

I would care if I had to be quarantined at sea, for sure. But I also don't expect that sort of thing to happen now, post 2020, because of pre cruise testing, enhanced protocols, etc.  Even if only half of the pax and crew were vaccinated/previously infected, that would go a long way towards reducing transmission. You'd still have to have a lot of bad luck to get infected and even more to get a bunch of people infected. 

 

Things are different now, and I do believe we all need to recognize that they are different when we consider these possibilities and potential outcomes of cruising going forward. I'd never encourage anyone to cruise if they don't feel safe doing so; it's a personal decision and I respect that. I do wish we would look at this situation as it is now though, with available testing, better protocols and PPE, vaccines and a population of recovered people, and not through a March 2020 lens.  

[electro]

42 minutes ago, prov2727 said:

I think that could be a very real issue. Now, we know there are some people who are asymptomatic but with the vaccine, we are creating millions who can spread the virus never knowing that they are doing so.

But if everyone is vaccinated, why is this an issue?

[winterbliss]

Oy Vey! How can we not have some folks on here questioning the moral and ethical issues that come in to play with mandating experimental vaccines.

[CILCIANRQTS]

This is NOT an age discrimination issue.

Certain ages can’t enter a bar.

Certain ages can’t enter a casino.

Certain ages can’t purchase a ticket to certain movies.

Certain ages can’t buy a gun.

Heck, Viking bans kids under 18. 

Let’s sue them and get rich !!!

This is based on vaccination status, not age.

 

[Laszlo]

Yes, all cruise lines will go this way. I just read something a few days ago where RC will make it mandatory for all ship staff to be vaccinated. Seem's fair all pax would be

[zerooveride]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how long before the cruise are you going to have to get your vaccine? 

 

Right now the CDC says that if exposed within 90 days after receiving your second dose you no longer are required to quarantine. Now no one knows if the benefits last longer or not. I think the 90 days is being conservative (hopefully).

 

I am getting the vaccine on the 7th of March (dose 1) and it will be interesting to know if I will have to get the vaccine AGAIN closer to my 12/26/21 NCL Encore voyage.

 

Also, will they require a specific vaccine? Pfizer & Moderna are 90%+ effectiveness. What about the Johnson & Johnson which they say is only ~66% effective?

[lizzius]

2 hours ago, electro said:

But if everyone is vaccinated, why is this an issue?

Because not everyone needs to be vaccinated to have the same ultimate effect. If you acknowledge the virus will always be with us, it's only about managing your personal risk.

[Laszlo]

57 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how long before the cruise are you going to have to get your vaccine? 

 

Right now the CDC says that if exposed within 90 days after receiving your second dose you no longer are required to quarantine. Now no one knows if the benefits last longer or not. I think the 90 days is being conservative (hopefully).

 

I am getting the vaccine on the 7th of March (dose 1) and it will be interesting to know if I will have to get the vaccine AGAIN closer to my 12/26/21 NCL Encore voyage.

 

Also, will they require a specific vaccine? Pfizer & Moderna are 90%+ effectiveness. What about the Johnson & Johnson which they say is only ~66% effective?

It said 14 days in the first post. I would assume that's 14 days After your second dose if you get the 2 shot vaccine.

 

Nobody knows right now how long the vaccine will protect you. 6 Months, a year, two???

 

Those in the studies are going on about 6 months now

Edited February 19, 2021 by Laszlo

[OZ.]

I think it’s a great idea.

[lizzius]

25 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

It said 14 days in the first post. I would assume that's 14 days After your second dose if you get the 2 shot vaccine.

 

Nobody knows right now how long the vaccine will protect you. 6 Months, a year, two???

 

Those in the studies are going on about 6 months now

This shows you how ill advised these mandates are for brand new vaccines being administered under EUA, in my opinion. It's possible (and perhaps likely) that a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine is more effective than AZ. We just don't know.

[stevejco]

5 hours ago, Buford T Justiice said:

I believe any vaccination proof will simply be self certification. Unless folks think that a random piece of paper from a city / town / county / state / province means something. Cruise lines don't have the manpower to do verification. Its simply a legal liability measure and perhaps a coming CDC directive to the cruise lines.

It wouldn't surprise me to see immunization records linked directly to your passport. Probably the most secure and efficient method of verifying sensitive info.

[linbobky]

49 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

It said 14 days in the first post. I would assume that's 14 days After your second dose if you get the 2 shot vaccine.

 

Nobody knows right now how long the vaccine will protect you. 6 Months, a year, two???

 

Those in the studies are going on about 6 months now

We take the flu shots every year, so why not the vaccine shot every year?

[Stick93]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

The ONLY way to guarantee healthy cruising is to require ALL passengers to be inoculated.  Last thing any cruise line wants is once they head out sea again is to come back with ANY passenger who was diagnosed with COVID and the ENTIRE ship manifest of crew and passengers having to be quarantined.

 

You do realize the vaccine is only 95% effective if we take what they are saying so the only guarantee to keep EVERYONE healthy is to not cruise...and hence this is where we are. 

[Laszlo]

26 minutes ago, linbobky said:

We take the flu shots every year, so why not the vaccine shot every year?

Because you might not need it every year. Its not an apples to apples comparison. In a good year about half the population of the US gets the flu shot. Right now its a complete unknown, that's why you are not hearing anything about it. At best we might start hearing something in 6 month, probably 8-10 months about how well the vaccines are protecting us

Edited February 19, 2021 by Laszlo

[lizzius]

30 minutes ago, linbobky said:

We take the flu shots every year, so why not the vaccine shot every year?

One, I doubt the overlap of people who are demanding 100% vaccination to board a ship and people who are up to date on their flu shots is complete... A lot of the people here are a good example: it's "I got mine, too bad for you" with regard to this, and they don't perceive their risk from flu in the same way. The truth is, they could probably help save a non-zero number people (including babies) if their zealotry was applied to flu vaccines but it matters not. And two, without naming names, some of the people demanding 100% vaccination without exceptions for kids or those with a medical necessity exempting them were the same ones who were absolutely losing it when this all started and the cruise lines mandated those over a certain age needed fitness to sail letters from their doctors.

Edited February 19, 2021 by lizzius

[Stick93]

When they find out the COVID shot last 4 months and a new variant is out - what will they do then?  The vaccine is one step in getting back. It’s not the only and probably won’t be the solution. Everyone wants a quick fix - but that is not happening. 

[sugcarol]

There is one sure fire way to know if vaccine is actually working is how many new cases appear. I think it will surprise many people at the anticipated drop of cases. Masks, social distance and vaccine are now all in play, then count the people who had it and survived and the asymptomatic who never knew they had it. Add all components together will pave the way for herd immunity.

[sanger727]

15 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

 

Group 3 begins next week (02/24). Group 4 will probably follow in about 6-8 weeks after. Group 5 will probably be starting by July 1 as Novavax, J&J, and the current ones ramped up massive production.

 

It sounds like things are going well in your area, though I'm not sure what all these "groups" consist of. But it's not moving that fast everywhere. We are currently still on 1B with no timeline on who will be in the next groups or when they might be done with 1B. I'll be surprised if I'm vaccinated before summer. They are even expecting to get kids until sometime in 2022.