Mandatory vaccination

[debenson0723]

7 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Guess that rules us out.  I have no intention of getting the "vaccine" and I fear for those who do.

Have you ever had the Shingles vaccine or Shingles?  I have had both and let me tell you, that vaccine knocked me on my backside for 36 hours. OTOH, having Shingles kept me in pain and misery for over 8 weeks and I had a mild case. I never want to go thru that again so the vaccine discomfort was a small price to pay to prevent it happening.

 

I have been directly exposed to covid over 10 times in the past year (all from co-workers), been tested every time (the last was 4 weeks ago) and put in quarantine once but luckily always negative. I personally know 6 people who died of covid in January, the oldest one being age 61, and 3 of them exposed via their kids or grand kids at the holidays who had no idea they were positive.  It has been extremely sad.

 

Taking the vaccine was a no brainer for me, absolutely no side effects and the sense of relief it has given me since is measurable.  If doing this makes others consider me being part of a trial, so be it.  I do not regret my decision for a second.  Do not fear for me because come November, I will be sailing on my cruise while others sit at home.

[Laszlo]

9 hours ago, debenson0723 said:

Have you ever had the Shingles vaccine or Shingles?  I have had both and let me tell you, that vaccine knocked me on my backside for 36 hours. OTOH, having Shingles kept me in pain and misery for over 8 weeks and I had a mild case. I never want to go thru that again so the vaccine discomfort was a small price to pay to prevent it happening.

I agree 100%. My wife and I both had the shingles vaccine three years ago, the first injection kicked the crap out of us for a day and a half. I was glad to take it after seeing what both my parents have gone thru. My Mom has outbreaks of it around her face, my father on his back and legs, its very painful and will last weeks. I'll gladly take a day or two feeling miserable to be covered

[hallux]

9 hours ago, debenson0723 said:

I have been directly exposed to covid over 10 times in the past year (all from co-workers), been tested every time (the last was 4 weeks ago) and put in quarantine once but luckily always negative. I personally know 6 people who died of covid in January, the oldest one being age 61, and 3 of them exposed via their kids or grand kids at the holidays who had no idea they were positive.

Dang, Deb, you've been through the ringer this year!  The best way to look at this is that it can only get better, right?

 

I had it and have recovered.  I plan to get the vaccine.  I unknowingly (at the time) passed it to my parents, whom I had visited the day before I showed symptoms.  They, fortunately, made it through and my dad has had his first shot of the vaccine (which knocked him on his backside for a day).

[lizzius]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:44 PM, macandlucy said:

Me too. But it's even more than 95% when you add in the prevention protocols.

 

Vaccine

PLUS 95% aerosols protection from a good mask

PLUS distancing

PLUS hand hygiene

PLUS preboarding testing.

 

Flu vaccines range in effectiveness from 20% in a bad year to about 60% in a good year. 

95% effective is measles levels of protection. It's huge. 

 

 

 

No. The vaccines were tested in the context of populations where most of what you noted above were present in their communities, and things like schools were closed or restricted. The 95% number has those measures "baked in".

[debenson0723]

33 minutes ago, hallux said:

Dang, Deb, you've been through the ringer this year!  The best way to look at this is that it can only get better, right?

 

I had it and have recovered.  I plan to get the vaccine.  I unknowingly (at the time) passed it to my parents, whom I had visited the day before I showed symptoms.  They, fortunately, made it through and my dad has had his first shot of the vaccine (which knocked him on his backside for a day).

Thanks...it has been rough, especially last month.  But many people have had it much worse so I feel bad about complaining. I have a beach trip to Florida booked for April and can't wait to get on a plane, sit on my balcony and watch the waves.  Not a cruise but close.

[oteixeira]

My mom is in her early 70s, past health issues (with her heart and a stroke), but still kicking butt.  She just had the second shot and she has not seemed more upbeat and looking forward to things since this all started.  She had a very mild headache for 24 hours after each shot, and she had the Pfizer.  

The minute I am allowed, I will be in line to get it.

[macandlucy]

47 minutes ago, lizzius said:

No. The vaccines were tested in the context of populations where most of what you noted above were present in their communities, and things like schools were closed or restricted. The 95% number has those measures "baked in".

Hmm. We're talking about a cruise ship environment, which has a number of restrictions in place that did not exist in the study environment.  This is not an apples to apples comparison. Why?

 

Before boarding, you'll need to test negative for covid. You aren't required to do that before you enter a store, workplace, etc. and test subjects weren't required to do that.

 

Individual behavior, I would expect, would be under closer scrutiny on a cruise ship, and there aren't the same number of opportunities to be engaged in unsupervised risky behavior, like private social gatherings in homes.  Test subjects had the same rules and guidance as every other citizen, and presumably showed the same level of compliance with the rules as non-test subjects, some followed them to a T, others did not.

 

Masks are almost a confounding variable because there's such a tremendous range between mask effectiveness; some are really effective, some are close to useless. Some people wear them all the time, some don't. Some fit well, some gape and even fall off the face. Mask mandates have evolved and vary from city to city, region to region, country to country.  Some subjects in the Pfizer study may have had a mask mandate in their city at the time and some may not have. 

 

It's that kind of variability that's "baked in" to a controlled study with randomization and a huge sample size. But the environments of the outside world when the experiments were taking place and a post 2020 cruise ship with new protocols are different.

[macandlucy]

For the vaccine averse: if it's the new mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) you are hesitant about, there are other vaccine candidates awaiting emergency use authorization that are not mRNA vaccines. 

[Georgia_Peaches]

34 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

For the vaccine averse: if it's the new mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) you are hesitant about, there are other vaccine candidates awaiting emergency use authorization that are not mRNA vaccines. 

Yes!  This exactly.  I will wait until the non mRNA vaccine is available and then re-evaluate my stance.

[oteixeira]

9 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Yes!  This exactly.  I will wait until the non mRNA vaccine is available and then re-evaluate my stance.

Check out the J&J vaccine, there is a TON of info already available for you to research, and it is non-mRNA.  Should be getting authorization in the next couple of weeks or so.

[CruiseMH]

No matter which available and registered vaccine you get it will for sure be better then without vaccine.

In general i am not a friend of any vaccination if not necessary,but regarding covid there is no doubt to me that i will get vaccinated asap. (unfortunately this will take until October cause in germany we have a specific order when specific groups of the population have the chance to get the vaccine)

 

[BoozinCroozin]

8 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

One thing I love best about this country that still remains is the right to have and express an opinion.  Cheers!

Only if it is the opinion you are given, not your own. Fact Checkers never existed until the Facts got out.

Edited February 22, 2021 by BoozinCroozin

[moto_italia]

Thought of the Day:  If we took 'cin' out of the title of this thread, it becomes "Mandatory Vacation".  Just imagine all the possibilities of suggestions we could have posted for that!  No really, imagine!

[roger001]

The only statistically  certain regarding these "experimental unproven" vaccines that I care about is this.  I'm 78.  Without the vaccines if I get the virus there is a 13% chance that I will die a miserable death alone in a hospital room unable to even speak with a tube stuck down my throat.  However, with one of these vaccines, there is a better than 90% I won't get the virus if exposed to it, or if I do I will only experience a mild and brief case of flu symptoms.   Let's see....which do I prefer.  Oh yea...I'm now had both shots and am one happy camper feeling sooo much more comfortable with the total situation. But, certainly do as you wish after having made very thoughtful and open minded decisions regarding the vaccines.     

[complawyer]

26 minutes ago, roger001 said:

The only statistically  certain regarding these "experimental unproven" vaccines that I care about is this.  I'm 78.  Without the vaccines if I get the virus there is a 13% chance that I will die a miserable death alone in a hospital room unable to even speak with a tube stuck down my throat.  However, with one of these vaccines, there is a better than 90% I won't get the virus if exposed to it, or if I do I will only experience a mild and brief case of flu symptoms.   Let's see....which do I prefer.  Oh yea...I'm now had both shots and am one happy camper feeling sooo much more comfortable with the total situation. But, certainly do as you wish after having made very thoughtful and open minded decisions regarding the vaccines.     

amen brother!

[Stick93]

1 hour ago, roger001 said:

The only statistically  certain regarding these "experimental unproven" vaccines that I care about is this.  I'm 78.  Without the vaccines if I get the virus there is a 13% chance that I will die a miserable death alone in a hospital room unable to even speak with a tube stuck down my throat.  However, with one of these vaccines, there is a better than 90% I won't get the virus if exposed to it, or if I do I will only experience a mild and brief case of flu symptoms.   Let's see....which do I prefer.  Oh yea...I'm now had both shots and am one happy camper feeling sooo much more comfortable with the total situation. But, certainly do as you wish after having made very thoughtful and open minded decisions regarding the vaccines.     

if you were 43 - you may think differently.

If you were 23 - you prob would think differently

But we can all agree nothing is 100% besides death when the good Lord calls you. 

 

[debenson0723]

6 hours ago, Stick93 said:

The difference is that people are choosing to really think about the vaccine and the "technology" that goes into their body. 

You chose the "no Brainer" approach and is your choice. 

 

I will be laughing at you when cruises are still not going in November and you too my friend will be sitting on the same couch as the ones you so loath. 

 

First, I never said that I 'loath' anyone.  Please don't quote me if you are going to twist what I write to suit your agenda. I only asked that someone not fear for me because I do not live in fear.  After watching my 50 year old sister die of cancer 5 years ago, and hearing her say she had regrets about her life because she lived too much of it in fear, it changed the way I look at everything. There is a theory called Mortality Salience: When your own mortality is brought to mind, behaviors change. I prefer to look forward and be positive about what the end of this year will hold.  If I am wrong, then I will be sitting on my couch, planning my next adventure.

 

I am very aware about the 'technology' and 'science' that goes into these vaccines, probably better than most.  The no brainer approach was taken by me due to my age, chronic illness, and multiple conversations with my doctors, not because of my lack of knowledge. I did not have to think twice about taking this vaccine as soon as it was available, not only for myself, but to protect those around me who do not have the ability to get it sooner.  You assume too much about people and situations you don't know.  Peace.

 

 

[winterbliss]

I believe at this point whether one cruises or not is the least of our problems! So long NCL and all the other wonderful lines we've had the pleasure to sail with! 

[Tippyton]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:15 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I think history will show that the response was not commensurate with the risk

Understatement of our lifetime.  Actually, some of us have known this all along.  I first got a FB account in March for this reason and have been singing that tune since then, from every mountaintop I can.  Absolutely maddening.  I thing the pols did the only thing they thought they could because none have balls.  LT Gov Dan Patrick of Texas was sullied early on by pushing back, saying [not precisely] "I'm 71 - I've had  good life.  I'm worried about the lives my grandkids will have if we continue down this path."

 

Notice there is no demographic advertised about underlying conditions either.  Or age, or a combination about both.  Why?  Doesn't fit with what DCGuy64 [and lots of us] believe and the science says.

 

 BuT PeOPLe wILl DIe!!!

 

I've had Covid and there is no talk about what to do about us.  The science hasn't proven  a benefit to me to get the vaccine.  The science leans hard towards the direction that I'm good to go.

[Stick93]

1 hour ago, debenson0723 said:

First, I never said that I 'loath' anyone.  Please don't quote me if you are going to twist what I write to suit your agenda. I only asked that someone not fear for me because I do not live in fear.  After watching my 50 year old sister die of cancer 5 years ago, and hearing her say she had regrets about her life because she lived too much of it in fear, it changed the way I look at everything. There is a theory called Mortality Salience: When your own mortality is brought to mind, behaviors change. I prefer to look forward and be positive about what the end of this year will hold.  If I am wrong, then I will be sitting on my couch, planning my next adventure.

 

I am very aware about the 'technology' and 'science' that goes into these vaccines, probably better than most.  The no brainer approach was taken by me due to my age, chronic illness, and multiple conversations with my doctors, not because of my lack of knowledge. I did not have to think twice about taking this vaccine as soon as it was available, not only for myself, but to protect those around me who do not have the ability to get it sooner.  You assume too much about people and situations you don't know.  Peace.

 

 

You compared the shingles shot to the COVID vaccine. The science and technology behind the two are totally different and one is FDA approved while the other is the largest human trial in the history of the world (if you guessed the COVID shot for this you are correct). Also this vaccine has no provable time frame for immunity. It’s possible that in three months you will have no immunity to the virus. There is also the possibly of a new strain. So many questions for science and people believing they will be cruising ahead of the non vaccinated! Assumptions - not a good thing in general. 
 

Your comments above seemed to say that people who refuse will be at home and you will not. Maybe I embellished your comments but the sentiment was how it read. I don’t buy that cruises will be viable excluding people. I have no issue with the possibility of this happening as I think it may come to fruition, but it will hurt the vacation industry by excluding well paying people at a time they will need everyone. There will be plenty of people excluded who take the vaccine already for many medical reasons. 
 

I am sorry about your sister and living in fear is the reality most people are facing today more than ever.  It’s sad and it’s because nobody is getting unfiltered and non-biased information. The news is biased both ways and continues to keep their audience with fear itself. 
 

 

[Froggitt]

 

Some real world, as opposed to trials, vaccine efficacy...

 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

The COVID-19 vaccines being used in the UK could reduce a person's risk of being admitted to hospital by as much as 94% four weeks after the first dose, new data suggests.

Experts examined coronavirus hospital admissions in Scotland among people who have had their first jab and compared them to those who had not yet received a vaccine.

 

Scientists from the Universities of Edinburgh, Strathclyde, Aberdeen, Glasgow and St Andrews and Public Health Scotland (PHS) looked at data on people who had received either the Pfizer/BioNTech jab or the one developed by scientists at the University of Oxford with AstraZeneca.

Four weeks after receiving the initial dose, the Oxford jab appeared to reduce a person's risk of hospital admission by 94%.

Those who received the Pfizer jab had a reduction in risk of 85% between 28 and 34 days after the first dose.

[winterbliss]

8 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Understatement of our lifetime.  Actually, some of us have known this all along.  I first got a FB account in March for this reason and have been singing that tune since then, from every mountaintop I can.  Absolutely maddening.  I thing the pols did the only thing they thought they could because none have balls.  LT Gov Dan Patrick of Texas was sullied early on by pushing back, saying [not precisely] "I'm 71 - I've had  good life.  I'm worried about the lives my grandkids will have if we continue down this path."

 

Notice there is no demographic advertised about underlying conditions either.  Or age, or a combination about both.  Why?  Doesn't fit with what DCGuy64 [and lots of us] believe and the science says.

 

 BuT PeOPLe wILl DIe!!!

 

I've had Covid and there is no talk about what to do about us.  The science hasn't proven  a benefit to me to get the vaccine.  The science leans hard towards the direction that I'm good to go.

I hear you. My concern right now is for our younger generation. Pregnant women are now brought in to the fold...we can be sure they're coming for the children next....with experimental vaccines. I guess that will be ok with society, too, because that's what the experts will tell us to do?

[coffeebean]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:06 AM, oteixeira said:

Check out the J&J vaccine, there is a TON of info already available for you to research, and it is non-mRNA.  Should be getting authorization in the next couple of weeks or so.

Efficacy of the J&J vaccine is not as high as the mRNA vaccines.

[roger001]

17 hours ago, Stick93 said:

if you were 43 - you may think differently.

If you were 23 - you prob would think differently

But we can all agree nothing is 100% besides death when the good Lord calls you. 

 

And therein lies the problem.  If...I become infected and happen to pass the virus to one of the folks in the two younger age groups, then I probably will not be given them an issue more than a mild flu experience, especially for the younger group.  But...if one of that group becomes infected, although it is a minor issue to them, if they pass it to me there is a very good chance for hospitalization for me or even dying.   So, the need for the younger groups to wear a mask and stand back is not for their good health.  It is for mine.  Unfortunately, a number of those in the younger age groups are refusing to mask up and in doing so are being extremely irresponsible towards us older folks.  I have a nephew that doesn't mask and won't do so even if a store says it is required.  He told me, "I am not going to live in fear and change or inconvenience my life even if it kills me.....or even it it kills others."  I'm really not liking my nephew at the moment and think he is a totally self centered and selfish jerk.  However, he is certainly not alone in that behavior.  

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Understatement of our lifetime.  Actually, some of us have known this all along.  I first got a FB account in March for this reason and have been singing that tune since then, from every mountaintop I can.  Absolutely maddening.  I thing the pols did the only thing they thought they could because none have balls.  LT Gov Dan Patrick of Texas was sullied early on by pushing back, saying [not precisely] "I'm 71 - I've had  good life.  I'm worried about the lives my grandkids will have if we continue down this path."

 

Notice there is no demographic advertised about underlying conditions either.  Or age, or a combination about both.  Why?  Doesn't fit with what DCGuy64 [and lots of us] believe and the science says.

 

 BuT PeOPLe wILl DIe!!!

 

I've had Covid and there is no talk about what to do about us.  The science hasn't proven  a benefit to me to get the vaccine.  The science leans hard towards the direction that I'm good to go.

What I have heard from the "experts" is that natural immunity lasts about 3 months. After that the antibodies wane considerably. People who have had Covid have been told to get vaccinated after 3 months of having Covid. Have you heard that?