Will cruises in Europe be the last to start up?

[Markanddonna]

I just read an article about the European Union's mistake in purchasing the vaccine. It seems they were resistant to any company making a profit and dragged their feet on purchase agreements. As a result, they are far behind. The US vaccine rollout looks like a model of efficiency compared to the EU which has only 3% of its population vaccinated. 

 

We have a late November Eastern Med cruise booked. That looks less and less likely now. 

[CruiserBruce]

Who knows? All speculation at this point.

[c-boy]

where's this article ?  I wanna read it .

Edited February 19, 2021 by c-boy

[cruisemom42]

Hoping land travel may open up earlier, for those who are vaccinated. 

 

But I have to agree that so far 2021 is not looking great for international travelers.

[wowzz]

The latest figures show the EU has vaccinated about 5.5% of its population.

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

It is important to bear in mind that the UK is currently vaccinating with a 12 week interval between doses, thus enabling the greatest number of people to have protection in the shortest period of time. The latest findings from Istael would seem to vindicate this policy.

 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n338

To get back to the question in hand. We have a Mediterranean cruise booked at the end of October. I think it 50:50 that it will go ahead, but with various protocols in place, if it does proceed.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The latest figures show the EU has vaccinated about 5.5% of its population.

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

It is important to bear in mind that the UK is currently vaccinating with a 12 week interval between doses, thus enabling the greatest number of people to have protection in the shortest period of time. The latest findings from Istael would seem to vindicate this policy.

 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n338

To get back to the question in hand. We have a Mediterranean cruise booked at the end of October. I think it 50:50 that it will go ahead, but with various protocols in place, if it does proceed.

Is that "fully vaccinated"...two shots? If so, the US is tipping over 5% fully vaccinated today...so Europe is comparable. If its one shot, then they are behind, as the US is over 12% now.

[SelectSys]

Cruises will restart in Europe this summer for residents in some capacity I would expect.  It will be interesting who else they might allow to participate.  Now that the UK is no longer part of the EU it's not clear they will be allowed in even if the UK has higher vaccination rates than Europe as a whole.   Americans will likely be shut out for another year in my opinion.  Maybe, just maybe towards the end of the year.

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

I just read an article about the European Union's mistake in purchasing the vaccine. It seems they were resistant to any company making a profit and dragged their feet on purchase agreements. As a result, they are far behind. The US vaccine rollout looks like a model of efficiency compared to the EU which has only 3% of its population vaccinated. 

 

We have a late November Eastern Med cruise booked. That looks less and less likely now. 

 

I don't understand your question. Cruises started up in Europe a long time ago. If Americans are welcome is another question but probably not right now. 

[gerryuk]

I live in Gran Canaria (Spanish island) which is part of Europe and cruise ships are in operation, with customers on board now. Mein Schiff 2 is a regular here as is German cruise ships from Aida that regularly stop here in Las Palmas. On the other hand Sea Cloud have 2 ships that have been in the port of Las Palmas since March and Aida have a couple of ships at anchor just outside the port of Las Palmas. Costa will restart in March again, don't know what the currant situation with MSC is at the moment. Cruises are happening in Europe now.

 

[gerryuk]

Sea Cloud will resume cruises in May around Europe.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Cruises will restart in Europe this summer for residents in some capacity I would expect.  It will be interesting who else they might allow to participate.  Now that the UK is no longer part of the EU it's not clear they will be allowed in even if the UK has higher vaccination rates than Europe as a whole.   Americans will likely be shut out for another year in my opinion.  Maybe, just maybe towards the end of the year.

Greece is already in talks with the UK about allowing tourism to restart. Spain is also hoping to resume tourism with the UK. 

Forget about the EU as an entity- at the moment the economies of the Mediterranean countries are in crisis. Spain and Greece desperately need UK tourists, so if the UK vaccine programne continues to outstrip the rest of Europe, UK tourists will be back in those countries by September,  regardless of what Brussels may say.

But cruises are a totally different matter ! Possibly in September,  but only with restrictions in place.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, gerryuk said:

Sea Cloud will resume cruises in May around Europe.

Well, that's a relief to all 64 passengers! 

I'm sure the governments of the world will be watching the May cruise with interest!

[SelectSys]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

U as an entity- at the moment the economies of the Mediterranean countries are in crisis. Spain and Greece desperately need UK tourists, so if the UK vaccine programne continues to outstrip the rest of Europe, UK tourists will be back in those countries by September,  regardless of what Brussels may say.

 

Makes sense.  It seems that Spain and Greece play the same role as Mexico does for the US and Canada in that they both provide nearby locations with value vacation opportunities.  Mexico never closed as they did want to shut down an important part of the economy - especially for the vacation spots outside the more industrial and business centers of the country.

[Ashland]

I have a July 2021 British Isles booked with Celebrity and am hoping they cancel before final payment date...they know this cruise won't sail !!

[Donald]

Some of you need to follow the news a bit more closely.

Big ship cruising started up in Europe several months ago, and is increasing every month. I am currently in Italy. I see ships with passengers sailing past my office window nearly every day.

Perhaps better to ask if cruises in North America will be the last to start up.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Some of you need to follow the news a bit more closely.

Big ship cruising started up in Europe several months ago, and is increasing every month. I am currently in Italy. I see ships with passengers sailing past my office window nearly every day.

Perhaps better to ask if cruises in North America will be the last to start up.

Perhaps better to ask if cruises in North America will be the last to start up. I was thinking the same thing, and the answer is probably yes, they will be the very last.

[cruisemom42]

32 minutes ago, Donald said:

Some of you need to follow the news a bit more closely.

Big ship cruising started up in Europe several months ago, and is increasing every month. I am currently in Italy. I see ships with passengers sailing past my office window nearly every day.

Perhaps better to ask if cruises in North America will be the last to start up.

 

Here is a list of the currently active cruise ships of 300+ passengers that I could find in Europe. Not many sailing YET though they will be joined by more in early March.

 

Assuming your offices are in Italy, seems only 2 or 3 ships actively carrying passengers could sail past your windows??  As per Cruise Industry News:

 

EUROPE (Currently Sailing)

• Mein Schiff 2 (TUI, ~2900 passengers at capacity) 7 and 14 nights to the Canaries calling at Fuerteventura, Lanzarote, Tenerife, La Palma and La Gomera. Recently had 4 COVID cases aboard.
• Mein Schiff 1 (TUI, ~2900 passengers at capacity)  14 and 21 nights to the Canaries, with stops at Tenerife, La Gomera, Santa Cruz de La Palma, Arrecife and Puerto del Rosario.
• Europa 2 (Hapag-Lloyd, ~500 passengers at capacity). From Tenerife sailing to Canaries and Madeira – Fuerteventura, Lanzarote, Gran Canaria, La Gomera, La Palma, El Hierro and Funchal.
• MSC Grandiosa (MSC, ~4900 passengers at capacity) One week (?) cruises from Genoa to Civitavecchia, Naples, Palermo and Valletta.
• MSC Magnifica (MSC, ~2500 passengers at capacity) 10 nights from Genoa to Livorno, Civitavecchia, Messina, Valletta, Piraeus and Katakolon.  Only resumed cruising on February 14.

EUROPE (Sailing Suspended or not yet started)

• Costa Smeralda (Costa, ~5200 passengers at capacity)  Sailings from Savona to La Spezia, Cagliari, Messina, Naples and Civitavecchia.  Sailings suspended until March 13.
• AIDAperla (AIDA, ~3200 passengers at capacity) Sailings from Gran Canaria (Spain) to the Canaries – Funchal, Tenerife, Fuerteventura and Lanzarote.  Sailings suspended until March 6, 2021.
• AIDAmar (AIDA ~ 2200 passengers at capacity) Sailings from Gran Canaria (Spain) to the Canaries – Funchal, Tenerife, La Palma and Lanzarote.  Sailings suspended until March 7, 2021.
• AIDAstella (AIDA ~ 2200 passengers at capacity) Sailing from Palma de Mallorca to Civitavecchia, Livorno, Marseille and Barcelona.  First sailing planned March 6, 2021.
• AIDAsol (AIDA ~ 2200 passengers at capacity) 7 nights to Southampton, Le Havre, Zeebrugge and Rotterdam.  First sailing scheduled on March 6, 2021.

[clo]

58 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Assuming your offices are in Italy, seems only 2 or 3 ships actively carrying passengers could sail past your windows?? 

I've notice that Mister Donald has a pretty high opinion of his opinions. So thanks, as always, for facts.

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, clo said:

I've notice that Mister Donald has a pretty high opinion of his opinions. So thanks, as always, for facts.

 

Maybe it's a definition, what's a cruiseship? He might count the big ferries as cruiseships.

 

I think that you and I had that discussions once about Hurtigruten. They don't have cruiseships but it's still possible to cruise with them! Their itinerary along the coast is NOT really a cruise.  

[Hlitner]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:26 PM, clo said:

I've notice that Mister Donald has a pretty high opinion of his opinions. So thanks, as always, for facts.

You must have been hiding in a hole!   Don't you realize that we cannot let facts get in the way of agendas?   LOL    

 

By the way, the MSC Grandiosa  also had a positive COVID test on Feb 16.  Not sure how they worked out for the cruise.  The infected passenger was transferred to a medical facility in Palermo.  There have also been over 200 reported COVID cases on European cruises since they resumed their limited cruises last year.

 

Hank

[iancal]

We were hoping to take a land vacation to the Med area in mid Sept through to Nov.  

 

Over the past month our confidence in our ability to do this has actually decreased.  We are not even bothering to follow flight prices etc for several destination alternatives as I did a month or so ago.

 

It is not about whether or not we will get vaccinated because we will.   The covid numbers/stats do not look good, a third wave complicated by new covid variants is potentially on the horizon.  

 

We have now move our expectation and hope towards a Jan-March snowbird trip.

Edited March 1, 2021 by iancal

[gerryuk]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:48 PM, Hlitner said:

There have also been over 200 reported COVID cases on European cruises since they resumed their limited cruises last year.

 

Hank

That does not seem right to me.

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, gerryuk said:

That does not seem right to me.

It is all documented but posting a link here would violate CC rules.  But, for example, a single cruise lines "Hurtigruten" accounts for 74 COVID cases which occurred on MS Roald Amundsen (71); MS Finnmarken (3 including 1 death).  Then we have the Costa Diadema (8), Costa Grandiosa (9); Silver Spirit (1);  Ponent;s Jacques-Cartier (13).  In addition there were over 90 cases reported on various European River Cruises of which 60 cases happened on a single cruise of the MS Swiss Crystal.  I am not going to bother listing all of the cases but this is just a quick review.   There are likely even more cases never reported because the passengers/crew did not discover they had COVID until they were off their respective vessels for several days after the cruise.    And I almost forgot about the very upscale Sea Dream that had 7 passengers and 2 crew infected on a cruise (all Europeans) that embarked at Barbados.

 

I could go back and fine even more but you should get the point.  Testing is certainly better then not testing, but testing has a very big problem.  No COVID test (either PCR or Antigen) will detect a recently exposed person (generally exposed within the prior 1-4 days).  In many cases this means that folks that get exposed while traveling to their embarkation port (not uncommon) will not be detected until several days into their cruise.  

 

I suspect that as more folks get vaccinated cruises will become a much better option.  Some cruise lines such as Saga have already adopted a policy that requires everyone to have been vaccinated.

 

Hank

 

 

[FredT]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:07 AM, Hlitner said:

It is all documented but posting a link here would violate CC rules.  But, for example, a single cruise lines "Hurtigruten" accounts for 74 COVID cases which occurred on MS Roald Amundsen (71); MS Finnmarken (3 including 1 death).  Then we have the Costa Diadema (8), Costa Grandiosa (9); Silver Spirit (1);  Ponent;s Jacques-Cartier (13).  In addition there were over 90 cases reported on various European River Cruises of which 60 cases happened on a single cruise of the MS Swiss Crystal.  I am not going to bother listing all of the cases but this is just a quick review.   There are likely even more cases never reported because the passengers/crew did not discover they had COVID until they were off their respective vessels for several days after the cruise.    And I almost forgot about the very upscale Sea Dream that had 7 passengers and 2 crew infected on a cruise (all Europeans) that embarked at Barbados.

 

I could go back and fine even more but you should get the point.  Testing is certainly better then not testing, but testing has a very big problem.  No COVID test (either PCR or Antigen) will detect a recently exposed person (generally exposed within the prior 1-4 days).  In many cases this means that folks that get exposed while traveling to their embarkation port (not uncommon) will not be detected until several days into their cruise.  

 

I suspect that as more folks get vaccinated cruises will become a much better option.  Some cruise lines such as Saga have already adopted a policy that requires everyone to have been vaccinated.

 

Hank

 

 

BUT.... Most of these cases were "Before vaccine"...   Should a cruise line demand EVERYONE on board have the vaccine, the incidences would be far, far fewer.   As well, notice that even in the cases mentioned, the more recent ones had far less of a "reaction" from local governments.   Like it or not everyone is becoming more and more used to the virus and have much better protocols in place to handle it.  (As well as the cruise lines themselves having better trained and equipped medical facilities to handle a possible case or outbreak.) 

[iancal]

I do not believe that people want to see the truth about covid.  They do not like the numbers that they see or the conclusion that those numbers draw hence their predisposition to ignore them.

 

The very best way to determine when cruising might open up in various parts or the world and who those countries will admit is to look at the covid numbers and the covid trends.   

 

 Comments, statements from the industry and from politicians are by their nature self serving and inaccurate/manipulative  at best.   

Edited March 4, 2021 by iancal