vaccine required?

[USCcruisecrazy]

17 minutes ago, D C said:

Did your post have a point?

Don't want to speak for the poster, but I'd surmise that the intent was "calling DeSantis an Idiot when Michigan's Governor is a few cents short of a nickel is a bit humorous!"  But that's just my guess.

[mcrcruiser]

Johnson & Johnson vaccine recall  in the USA do to potential blood clots 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-us-calls-for-pause-after-blood-clotting-cases/ar-BB1fB8wg?ocid=edgsp&li=BBnb7Kz

[USCcruisecrazy]

7 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Johnson & Johnson vaccine recall  in the USA do to potential blood clots 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-us-calls-for-pause-after-blood-clotting-cases/ar-BB1fB8wg?ocid=edgsp&li=BBnb7Kz

That's a bummer...they are having to pause.  Luckily, it's a minimal number compared to what Moderna and Pfizer have given.  I think J&J is like 7 million with an additional 9 million available.  Hopefully, they decide the 6 cases of blood clots are unrelated to the shot or related to an issue those 6 ladies had in common.

[rabin1]

check this out about Can Vaccines be required by businesses

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-businesses-require-vaccination-proof-experts-say-yes/

 

Kathy

[caribill]

7 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

I don't think this is a fair argument as the above measure came in early days of pandemic when there was not the data and knowledge exists today.  New York was on fire and there was evidence that people were heading to Florida to get away from New York.  New York themselves have since imposed a quarantine order.

 

My point was a year ago Florida did care if you might have Covid as far as business was concerned. Don't come here if you come from an area that has a number of cases.

 

But now the Florida viewpoint is businesses should not care if the people who come are protected from having the disease or not.

[USCcruisecrazy]

6 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

My point was a year ago Florida did care if you might have Covid as far as business was concerned. Don't come here if you come from an area that has a number of cases.

 

But now the Florida viewpoint is businesses should not care if the people who come are protected from having the disease or not.

That's a rather broad statement.  I think FL back a year ago wanted to get better data before making decisions.  That data for the most part exists.  And I don't think FL has a "we don't care if people who come are protected or not" attitude.  They have an attitude that adults need to make their life decisions based on data and what they feel comfortable with.  I know it's a novel idea for many, but using common sense, acting like an adult, and not taking undue risks does not mean shutting your world down.  And FL decided back in June of 2020 that they were willing to allow adults to make adult decisions.

[voljeep]

1 minute ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

That's a rather broad statement.  I think FL back a year ago wanted to get better data before making decisions.  That data for the most part exists.  And I don't think FL has a "we don't care if people who come are protected or not" attitude.  They have an attitude that adults need to make their life decisions based on data and what they feel comfortable with.  I know it's a novel idea for many, but using common sense, acting like an adult, and not taking undue risks does not mean shutting your world down.  And FL decided back in June of 2020 that they were willing to allow adults to make adult decisions.

businesses can require staff to be vaccinated - that protects the business - and masks, and distance

 

adults making adult decisions based on risk tolerance and reward

 

we went to WDW pre vaccinated - adult decision based in part on he way WDW was set up

[nocl]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Johnson & Johnson vaccine recall  in the USA do to potential blood clots 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-us-calls-for-pause-after-blood-clotting-cases/ar-BB1fB8wg?ocid=edgsp&li=BBnb7Kz

It is not a recall.  It is a pause in new inoculations while the data is being reviewed.

 

It is a far cry from a recall.

 

I expect that once they have the review completely their might be a label change that might limit who it should be used for and probably a notice that if anyone has recently had the vaccine and showing signs of blood clots that they should not be treated with Heparin.

[K.T.B.]

2 hours ago, rabin1 said:

check this out about Can Vaccines be required by businesses

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-businesses-require-vaccination-proof-experts-say-yes/

 

Kathy

 

Thanks for supplying that!  I already knew that was the case, but nice to see a good write up on it!

[K.T.B.]

I just saw this.  And this is why cruise lines must require that 100% of the people on board be vaccinated.

 

 

[MaineCruiser243]

I find this COVID vaccine situation troubling and feel I may not be able to get vaccinated, even if it means having to give up cruising, for the following reasons:

1. The vaccines are experimental and were rushed into production with limited testing. So essentially the long term trials normally done before a medication is approved are being done now by millions of people worldwide. Note that trials were mainly done on younger healthy people and very few on elderly people who are the ones that supposedly need it the most.

 

2. The vaccines use a totally new mechanism of messenger RNA that has never been used before.

 

3. Reports of adverse reactions even deaths. While the claim is that these are few in number, one also has to be concerned given that there is such an interest in minimizing bad publicity and emphasizing the good. We also don't know the long term effects, again because no long term trials were done.

 

4. We don't know how long the vaccine will be effective, some have said people may need booster shots every year. 

 

5. There are also reports that the vaccine does not prevent you from being a carrier of the virus. I guess this is why getting the vaccine does not relieve you of the need to wear a mask or social distance.

 

So people have to decide what is important to them and whether they can trust what we are being told about it.

[USCcruisecrazy]

9 minutes ago, MaineCruiser243 said:

I find this COVID vaccine situation troubling and feel I may not be able to get vaccinated, even if it means having to give up cruising, for the following reasons:

1. The vaccines are experimental and were rushed into production with limited testing. So essentially the long term trials normally done before a medication is approved are being done now by millions of people worldwide. Note that trials were mainly done on younger healthy people and very few on elderly people who are the ones that supposedly need it the most.

 

2. The vaccines use a totally new mechanism of messenger RNA that has never been used before.

 

3. Reports of adverse reactions even deaths. While the claim is that these are few in number, one also has to be concerned given that there is such an interest in minimizing bad publicity and emphasizing the good. We also don't know the long term effects, again because no long term trials were done.

 

4. We don't know how long the vaccine will be effective, some have said people may need booster shots every year. 

 

5. There are also reports that the vaccine does not prevent you from being a carrier of the virus. I guess this is why getting the vaccine does not relieve you of the need to wear a mask or social distance.

 

So people have to decide what is important to them and whether they can trust what we are being told about it.

I appreciate your concerns, so here are a few thoughts:

1 and 2.  The Messenger RNA vaccine is not experimental.  They have been working on that technology for over a decade.  The reason being is that you can produce vaccines quicker.  The two roadblocks were red tape and funding and that was taken care of. My wife that works in the Industry will tell you that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are the cleanest she has ever seen...much cleaner than any flu shot in recent history, as an example.

3. Every medicine has a potential for adverse effects and death.  In fact, if you read the paper work for anything you take from your doctor, it would likely scare the crap out of you.  Case in point:  had a friend that ate peanuts for years and then one day ate one and almost died from an adverse reaction. Should that keep us all from eating peanuts?  It's a minimal risk that most would be willing to take.

4.  Why should how long it lasts be a factor in taking it?  I get a flu shot every year.

5.  Most reports have shown that a vaccinated person can not carry a high enough viral load to make anyone else sick from the virus.  Pretty sure if everyone is vaccinated, social distancing and masks (according to science) will not be required.  can't speak for the political/control the sheep piece.

 

Yes, make your own decision...everyone should.  But get all the facts and decide how they stack up for you.   Got both of my shots...no reaction...hardly a sore arm...and would take a booster every 6 months if that's what they said was required to get on with life!!!

[LHARTWICK]

16 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

I just saw this.  And this is why cruise lines must require that 100% of the people on board be vaccinated.

 

 

And yet CCL's CEO has announced vaccines will not be required.  I just don't get it.  🤔

[voljeep]

18 minutes ago, LHARTWICK said:

And yet CCL's CEO has announced vaccines will not be required.  I just don't get it.  🤔

won't be or still undecided ?

[nocl]

19 minutes ago, LHARTWICK said:

And yet CCL's CEO has announced vaccines will not be required.  I just don't get it.  🤔

It makes one wonder if the what the Florida Governor is doing is with agreement of the cruise lines because they really do not want to require vaccination and this could give them an excuse in the US not to require it.

[Daniel A]

41 minutes ago, LHARTWICK said:

And yet CCL's CEO has announced vaccines will not be required.  I just don't get it.  🤔

 

20 minutes ago, nocl said:

It makes one wonder if the what the Florida Governor is doing is with agreement of the cruise lines because they really do not want to require vaccination and this could give them an excuse in the US not to require it.

First, CCL CEO Duffy is only CEO of one of the ten cruise lines owned and operated by the parent corporation which is called Carnival Corporation & PLC.  Apart from vaccination being required for the UK cruises with Princess, Cunard and P&O and for Seabourn's in Greece this summer, there is no company-wide or brand policy on vaccination.

 

Carnival Cruise Line has a significantly younger demographic than say, Princess or Holland America.  Duffy may be looking to avoid alienating the younger "party" demographic by requiring vaccinations as the younger demographic doesn't seem to be as keen to take the vaccine as the > 60 group.  JMHO

[nocl]

8 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

 

First, CCL CEO Duffy is only CEO of one of the ten cruise lines owned and operated by the parent corporation which is called Carnival Corporation & PLC.  Apart from vaccination being required for the UK cruises with Princess, Cunard and P&O and for Seabourn's in Greece this summer, there is no company-wide or brand policy on vaccination.

 

Carnival Cruise Line has a significantly younger demographic than say, Princess or Holland America.  Duffy may be looking to avoid alienating the younger "party" demographic by requiring vaccinations as the younger demographic doesn't seem to be as keen to take the vaccine as the > 60 group.  JMHO

However, your also have Fain making the comment for Royal that a decision is not yet made for US departures.

 

NCL is the only one of the 3 major holding to state definitively that it will require vaccination for US  departures for its brands.  RCL and CCL owned brands have not made any committment.

[PescadoAmarillo]

51 minutes ago, voljeep said:

won't be or still undecided ?

 I understood Arnold Donald to have said won’t be.  I was very disappointed. Of course, Princess is also not saying what will happen when COVID occurs on board, as it inevitably will. Will my cruise be interrupted?  What happens with B2B guests (and Princess is allowing logical bookings at least as soon as January 2022) when an outbreak occurs? 

[mellon1]

6 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

I appreciate your concerns, so here are a few thoughts:

1 and 2.  The Messenger RNA vaccine is not experimental.  They have been working on that technology for over a decade.  The reason being is that you can produce vaccines quicker.  The two roadblocks were red tape and funding and that was taken care of. My wife that works in the Industry will tell you that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are the cleanest she has ever seen...much cleaner than any flu shot in recent history, as an example.

3. Every medicine has a potential for adverse effects and death.  In fact, if you read the paper work for anything you take from your doctor, it would likely scare the crap out of you.  Case in point:  had a friend that ate peanuts for years and then one day ate one and almost died from an adverse reaction. Should that keep us all from eating peanuts?  It's a minimal risk that most would be willing to take.

4.  Why should how long it lasts be a factor in taking it?  I get a flu shot every year.

5.  Most reports have shown that a vaccinated person can not carry a high enough viral load to make anyone else sick from the virus.  Pretty sure if everyone is vaccinated, social distancing and masks (according to science) will not be required.  can't speak for the political/control the sheep piece.

 

Yes, make your own decision...everyone should.  But get all the facts and decide how they stack up for you.   Got both of my shots...no reaction...hardly a sore arm...and would take a booster every 6 months if that's what they said was required to get on with life!!!

We just talked about that very same thing.  Thank you for posting.  Everything, even food has risks for cancer.

[mellon1]

18 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

 I understood Arnold Donald to have said won’t be.  I was very disappointed. Of course, Princess is also not saying what will happen when COVID occurs on board, as it inevitably will. Will my cruise be interrupted?  What happens with B2B guests (and Princess is allowing logical bookings at least as soon as January 2022) when an outbreak occurs? 

Are  you guys doing b2b2b2b2..... in 2022???

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

 I understood Arnold Donald to have said won’t be.  I was very disappointed. Of course, Princess is also not saying what will happen when COVID occurs on board, as it inevitably will. Will my cruise be interrupted?  What happens with B2B guests (and Princess is allowing logical bookings at least as soon as January 2022) when an outbreak occurs? 

Apart from vaccination being required for the UK cruises with Princess, Cunard and P&O and for Seabourn's in Greece this summer, there is no company-wide or brand policy on vaccination.

 

I guess that doesn't mean Carnival is against mandating a vaccine, they're just waiting on CDC to relax its mandates in the US alone.  Their tactic is to say they should be treated just like any other travel industry.  It could be setting up an "equal justice under law" argument for later.

[Steelers36]

9 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

I appreciate your concerns, so here are a few thoughts:

1 and 2.  The Messenger RNA vaccine is not experimental.  They have been working on that technology for over a decade.  The reason being is that you can produce vaccines quicker.  The two roadblocks were red tape and funding and that was taken care of. My wife that works in the Industry will tell you that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are the cleanest she has ever seen...much cleaner than any flu shot in recent history, as an example.

3. Every medicine has a potential for adverse effects and death.  In fact, if you read the paper work for anything you take from your doctor, it would likely scare the crap out of you.  Case in point:  had a friend that ate peanuts for years and then one day ate one and almost died from an adverse reaction. Should that keep us all from eating peanuts?  It's a minimal risk that most would be willing to take.

4.  Why should how long it lasts be a factor in taking it?  I get a flu shot every year.

5.  Most reports have shown that a vaccinated person can not carry a high enough viral load to make anyone else sick from the virus.  Pretty sure if everyone is vaccinated, social distancing and masks (according to science) will not be required.  can't speak for the political/control the sheep piece.

 

Yes, make your own decision...everyone should.  But get all the facts and decide how they stack up for you.   Got both of my shots...no reaction...hardly a sore arm...and would take a booster every 6 months if that's what they said was required to get on with life!!!

Nice to see a voice of reason show up.  I would have echoed much the same thoughts.  Thanks.

[caribill]

10 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

 I understood Arnold Donald to have said won’t be.

 

 

What A.D. said:

 

While we will have a limited number of sailings carrying to those who have already received vaccines, our decisions about vaccines and all of our health protocols continue to be informed by our global medical and science experts and the requirements of the places we operate and visit.

 

Today everybody doesn't have access to vaccines. Children are not yet really eligible for vaccines. Hopefully, that'll change over time. Hopefully, the availability of the vaccine so everyone will have access will also change over time. And we would encourage everyone to be vaccinated. We would. Today, we can't buy vaccines to do anything. So we just have to let this play out. And keep in mind, we are currently sailing (almost 400,000 guests so far overseas) without any major incident, without anybody being vaccinated and with protocols in place.

 

To my knowledge, there is no major country today that is mandating vaccines for travel. And so the option is vaccines or testing or whatever. We want to encourage people to take the vaccine. And then what our ultimate policies will be, we'll have to get that evolve and see. In the UK, we have some -- we've announced some other sailings in the UK. We just announced one in Seabourn where it's available to people who have vaccinations, but we do not have a company or brand policies right now around vaccinations. And we're going to allow that to play out in line of with what makes the most sense.

 

We continue to be very encouraged about recent vaccine distribution and the positive progress that signals. Vaccines are a game-changer. They are another important tool, along with advancements in treatment therapies, contact tracing technology and affordable rapid testing. And while we will have a limited number of sailings carrying to those who have already received vaccines, our decisions about vaccines and all of our health protocols continue to be informed by our global medical and science experts and the requirements of the places we operate and visit.

 

 

 

[Daniel A]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

What A.D. said:

To my knowledge, there is no major country today that is mandating vaccines for travel. And so the option is vaccines or testing or whatever. We want to encourage people to take the vaccine. And then what our ultimate policies will be, we'll have to get that evolve and see. In the UK, we have some -- we've announced some other sailings in the UK. We just announced one in Seabourn where it's available to people who have vaccinations, but we do not have a company or brand policies right now around vaccinations. And we're going to allow that to play out in line of with what makes the most sense.

Thanks for posting the entire quote from A.D.  That was exactly where I got my information from.  👍 

[HappyInVan]

So, how come RCL and NCL (plus the small companies) have a vax mandate??? 🙄

 

Looks like CCL is the Lone Ranger, holding up the industry! 😒

 

Its common sense. If 50% of the population vax, then 50% will sail.

Edited April 15, 2021 by HappyInVan