The madness of the upcoming virus cruise policies

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, josephine678 said:

Do you think Cruises will finally be permitted to sale from US ports(New Jersey) this summer, with these policies in place.

No

[Stevanb]

1 minute ago, Iamcruzin said:

This is why I won't book a cruise until I see what it's going to be. I can just do a land vacation with less hoops to jump through. With the constant itinerary changes, rate hikes, the uncertainty of when it will start and all of the protocols cruising has lost the appeal it once had.

We have gone to Mexico Costa Mujeres in Sept  and     Punta Cana in  Dec  2020.   Mask was needed in Mexico when you walked into a public area only   and in Punta Cana no mask needed anywhere .  At that time we where not vaccinated . Now we are and are booked  April for  Playa de Carmen   Sept  not sure yet  and Dec Jamaica    We only stay at adult all  inclusive  have been doing it twice a year for years and on long cruise a year    You can go on vacation  but land is only way right now and  this year no cruises

[twangster]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Masks for life? This is the type of off-the-wall comment that completely discredits the rest of your posts, no matter how factual or logical they may seem.  

 

I don't believe cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of Covid19 spread in the world as presently they are not operational.  In the past, if you look at the numbers, the cases from cruise ships were a drop in the bucket compared to the total cases.  In the future, vaccine requirements and safety protocols will preclude super spreader events and a cruise experience (fantasy world) as you see it. 

 

 

You are clearly glossing over the secret biolabs on deck 0 and deck 00.

 

The real reason why Oasis class can't go through the Panama Canal isn't because they are too high or too wide, this class have a 3rd secret deck 000 that makes the ships too deep.  

 

This is where COVID-19 was created and leaked to a Princess ship using underwater seal teams.  It was corporate espionage, nothing to do with China.  

 

Royal escaped the early outbreaks because they've always had the antidote.  Later they announced a few minor cases to deflect scrutiny.  

 

It's been cruise ships this entire time.  

[HBE4]

29 minutes ago, compman9 said:

I appreciate there are a fair few replies to my post, but no-one has addressed these bizarre contradictions

 

Nobody really knows the "right" way out of this situation, if there is such a thing. There are just various paths to get restarted and each cruise line has to do what it thinks best for it's particular market/demographic. I would think that after the first few cruises, rules would start to evolve and maybe continue to evolve for the next 3-6, maybe even 12 months.  Not that you have a lot of choice right now with bubble cruises based on nationality, but choose a line whose rules you can accept. Keep in mind, those rules may be temporary and may get more or less restrictive. 

 

After a year of speculations on 15,000+ different threads, most people are tired of talking about it and are just adopting a wait and see approach. I know I am. Probably won't even think of booking a cruise until a few months of successful, near-normal cruising. Instead, I will continue to book vacations that I know will happen & I know what the experience will be like.

 

 

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

I know I am. Probably won't even think of booking a cruise

Prices have been crazy low on a few cruises that were awesome to L&S. We rolled the dice. One was so good we plan to make final payment and then L&S to 2022.  Betting on Royal to cancel. Win some, lose some. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[alfaeric]

5 hours ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

Not contradictory at all- put it into their perspective- the worst thing that could possibly happen is if passengers bring on the virus and spread it among themselves.

 

So at this point, every single action, even if they are doubling down, is to prevent that at all costs.

 

A crew member getting sick is ok, as long as it does not spread, and the on-shore things they have no real control over.  

 

The policy also makes it easier to drop people off in different locations- as they would be less likely to bring a virus to a place that doesn't want it.  So there's protections to the destinations who may not be able to get the same protections.

 

It's all CYA policy toward the paying customers.

 

Which is to say, 100% expected.

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Empehi said:

My only comment concerning this topic is the question:

 

What is the point of the vaccinations if after you are vaccinated you have you still are required to wear masks, social distance and be tested constantly. It seems pretty absurd.

 

 

Thank you. There is no point to getting the vaccine is there if you have to live like that for life.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, lovescats5 said:

And I suppose Ace2542 you think children should not be allowed on a cruise ship because they cannot get vaccinated yet.  You need to find a different cruise line or just stay in your house with a mask on and live your life in fear.  And I do not believe the vaccine is the answer to everything.  But most would disagree with that also.  So we get one or two shots every year and still might get sick.  Oh well.

Saying that getting vaccinated doesn't stop you from getting infected is like saying that wearing a seat belt won't prevent a car accident. No, but you're more likely to survive.

Honestly, this isn't rocket science.

[HBE4]

10 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Prices have been crazy low on a few cruises that were awesome to L&S. We rolled the dice. One was so good we plan to make final payment and then L&S to 2022.  Betting on Royal to cancel. Win some, lose some. 

 

I know, it's tempting, especially to lock in a low price.

 

The downside to my approach is that by the time I do feel comfortable, that between pent-up demand and (if) sailings are at reduced capacity, sailings could be sold out or ridiculously expensive for some time.  Hopefully once Odyssey starts sailing, we'll have a clearer picture of what cruise life will be like in actuality. 

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, compman9 said:

I have to ask why you would not discuss any of those contradictions

The second half of my post explains that.

[nelblu]

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19? 

 

 

I beg to differ, but the prize goes to the NYC Subways which are packed like sardines.😊 

[CILCIANRQTS]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

You are clearly glossing over the secret biolabs on deck 0 and deck 00.

 

The real reason why Oasis class can't go through the Panama Canal isn't because they are too high or too wide, this class have a 3rd secret deck 000 that makes the ships too deep.  

 

This is where COVID-19 was created and leaked to a Princess ship using underwater seal teams.  It was corporate espionage, nothing to do with China.  

 

Royal escaped the early outbreaks because they've always had the antidote.  Later they announced a few minor cases to deflect scrutiny.  

 

It's been cruise ships this entire time.  

 

Deck 00 is where they insert the microchips into the vaccine vials.

Then they add a small helping of bleach to each vial.

Finally they unpack the tiny high power LED flashlights with instructions on what you can do with them...

[shrifk]

We thoroughly enjoy cruising and looking forward to our next cruise whenever that might be.  However we prefer to hire our own excursion guides or just get off the ship and wander around town rather than taking the cruise ship tour or staying on board -- so we'll wait until those restrictions are lifted.  Hopefully it won't be too long. 

[Eddie Wilson]

3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

It’s simple. Our debate here means NOTHING. Their ship, their rules. Matters not what we think. Don’t like their rules, don’t go. 

 

Agree Milwaukee, and add....not necessarily their ship rules, let’s add it is inevitable there will be a digital passport of some sort that airlines and foreign travel will require.  

So in order to arrive at some departures, if you are not vaccinated you may be subject to quarantine before getting near a ship.  That is, the cruise lines will not be the only hurdle to overcome for some travelers.

 

Eddie

[RFerrington]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

This is where COVID-19 was created and leaked to a Princess ship using underwater seal teams.  It was corporate espionage, nothing to do with China.  

 

Royal escaped the early outbreaks because they've always had the antidote.  Later they announced a few minor cases to deflect scrutiny. 

I KNEW it !  I thought there was some pretty unsavory shenanigans going on down there belowdecks.  I can't believe that you managed to get that information and survive to tell it....but thank goodness you did !

[lenquixote66]

9 hours ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

That is why I would never consider cruising until the pandemic is eradicated .

[sanger727]

19 hours ago, ace2542 said:

So about 40 people will catch Covid on the 9000 person Harmony. That is very small figure. A very encouraging figure.

 

That's still not how it works. The .04% was based on people being out in a general population of unvaccinated people during the study. When everyone on the ship is 90-95% immune to covid, now you are counting on the 250-500 people that aren't, A. one of them bringing covid on board. When there are 1,500 new cases a day out of 350 million there is a low percentage that one of those 250-500 people is infected. B. those 1-2 people that bring it on, encountering those other 250-500 people in close contact as opposed to the other 4500 people on the ship. The effective risk of infection will be much lower in a vaccinated population than in an unvaccinated population. I believe they have quoted that 70% immune is enough for herd immunity, where the couple people who are infected are unlikely enough to be in close contact with the few people who aren't immune and therefore the virus stops spreading. 

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

That's still not how it works. The .04% was based on people being out in a general population of unvaccinated people during the study. When everyone on the ship is 90-95% immune to covid, now you are counting on the 250-500 people that aren't, A. one of them bringing covid on board. When there are 1,500 new cases a day out of 350 million there is a low percentage that one of those 250-500 people is infected. B. those 1-2 people that bring it on, encountering those other 250-500 people in close contact as opposed to the other 4500 people on the ship. The effective risk of infection will be much lower in a vaccinated population than in an unvaccinated population. I believe they have quoted that 70% immune is enough for herd immunity, where the couple people who are infected are unlikely enough to be in close contact with the few people who aren't immune and therefore the virus stops spreading. 

I accept what you have written. The figure of 40 was just one  I threw into the air. However there is an article in the London Evening Standard which says "vaccination of all adults in UK is "unlikely" to achieve so called "herd immunity" and contain the virus and the goes on to discuss waves and reopening of society. 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-vaccine-contain-infections-university-of-warwick-b925058.html?itm_source=Internal&itm_channel=section_banner&itm_campaign=breaking-news-ticker&itm_content=1

Edited March 19, 2021 by ace2542

[Sky616]

On 3/18/2021 at 6:17 AM, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

Yea sounds like a great time.  No thanks, who in the hell would go through this crap?

[dswallow]

Up till now there were basically two possibilities:

 

1) No sailings.

 

2) Some sailings from near-US ports but with vaccination requirements.

 

Nobody - NOBODY - has said vaccinations will be required forever. But what is very clear, is the alternative to a few ships offering vaccination-only cruises in the coming months is to have no ships providing cruises in the coming months.

 

On the other hand, for all the craziness this topic has brought out in some people, I look forward to being on at least a few sailings without them.

 

Anything to motivate the CDC to move forward in some way is a good thing at this point. But there's otherwise nothing Royal Caribbean can do about sailings from US ports until the CDC lets something move forward in some way. This vaccination-only approach on a few ships seems to be what Royal Caribbean has managed to arrange with appropriate authorities in the Caribbean, Bermuda and Mexico right now. If you don't like it, see #1 above. That's what you'd otherwise have right now. So...

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Yea sounds like a great time.  No thanks, who in the hell would go through this crap?

Continue to convince yourself that the experience will be "crap". That is your defense mechanism kicking in because you will not be able to board a ship if you are not vaccinated. That is your choice. Don't forget that.

[Keksie]

39 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Continue to convince yourself that the experience will be "crap". That is your defense mechanism kicking in because you will not be able to board a ship if you are not vaccinated. That is your choice. Don't forget that.

I am fully vaccinated and it still sounds like the worst vacation ever so my choice will be to go on road trips this year.

[A&L_Ont]

6 minutes ago, Keksie said:

I am fully vaccinated and it still sounds like the worst vacation ever so my choice will be to go on road trips this year.

I’m not paying to cruise to have restrictions.  I understand the need for them, but like you I’d rather stay at home and save money for other things. 

[caroltovt]

So those who will cruise with vaccinations and masks will help keep the process going for all those who refuse. I will be one of them since I just love being on a ship. To those who refuse: you are welcome.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, Keksie said:

I am fully vaccinated and it still sounds like the worst vacation ever so my choice will be to go on road trips this year.

I agree with you actually. I won't cruise if masks are to be worn anywhere on the ship.