CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions

[broberts]

50 minutes ago, RoyalC said:

 

So hotels, beaches, Disney World, Amusement Parks, etc don't count as leisure travel or activities? So 100,000 cruisers with only 10 testing positive is bad- none died? Better odds than land...

 

They don't qualify under any definition of travel. Some are involved in leisure activities. Do you think the virus understands that all leisure activities should be treated the same?

 

No idea where you got your numbers. Certainly I don't think there has been serious testing and tracking of all cruise participants. Has any of the data gathered actually been submitted to the CDC? Or should we expect it to make these decisions based on what it can find on Twitter and Facebook?

[Hlitner]

I want to take this thread in a slightly different direction.   On Monday, Rochelle Walensky, the CDC Director was on the Rachel Maddow show and said that CDC data released that same day “suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick, and that it’s not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data.”  I believe that might be the first time the CDC has publicly made that statement which might turn out to be huge for the cruise/travel industry. Her Statement was based on an internal study....and here is the link for anyone that really wants to get into the nitty gritty:

Interim Estimates of Vaccine Effectiveness of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Health Care Personnel, First Responders, and Other Essential and Frontline Workers — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–March 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

 

For those not familiar with the MMWR it is an official weekly publication of the CDC and it is widely read in the healthcare industry (used to come to my desk every week).

 

Think about it, we now have the CDC Director admitting that their own data shows that vaccinated folks cannot spread COVID (if you don't carry the virus you cannot spread the virus).  So a cruise ship that had 100% vaccinated passengers would not be at risk (or at very minimal risk) to any port.  One could also argue that there is absolutely no reason why a ship with 100% vaccinated passengers should not be able to move in and out of US Ports.   

 

It will be interesting to see if the CLIA and its members jump on this statement.

 

Hank

P.S.  While Dr. Walensky did make this wonderful statement on Monday, today she was all doom and gloom about increasing COVID cases.  But death rates continue to fall as apparently most of the new infections are among younger folks.

[sonnycruises]

2 hours ago, D C said:

The reality of the issue is that cruising is one of the very small number of areas where the CDC has direct influence. 

 

They can make a litany of recommendations on everyday life throughout the country that have no meaningful impact whatsoever. Don't travel, don't eat out, don't go to bars, etc, etc, etc.....   all without teeth.  Meaningless other than the power of suggestion. 

 

The CDC essentially has control of borders to prevent the introduction of disease into the US. 

 

With covid being widespread, does cruising present a risk of introducing a disease to the US, increasing the number of cases in the US, and/or taxing the healthcare system in the US if the cruise passengers and crew are fully vaccinated against covid?  It's really that simple. 

 

 

Plus Covid is pouring in over the Mexican border.

[mom says]

56 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

P.S.  While Dr. Walensky did make this wonderful statement on Monday, today she was all doom and gloom about increasing COVID cases. 

And you think it's a cause for rejoicing , or just indifference, that case numbers and hospitalizations are rising again and so is the incidence of illness due to variants? And what percentage of your population is fully  vaccinated? Should she have got up and danced on her desk instead of warning about a continued need for caution? How many people have died due to COVID this week?

Edited March 30, 2021 by mom says

[lyndarra]

2 hours ago, sonnycruises said:

Plus Covid is pouring in over the Mexican border.

"Pouring in"? Do you have any evidence?

Or is this claim politically motivated to scare people. There's no increase showing in border states case stats.

[Roger88]

These restrictions are being put down right now.. yes, slowly but we are about to get rid of them. I wonder how much longer it will take to abandon them once and for all.. 

[hcat]

6 hours ago, sonnycruises said:

Plus Covid is pouring in over the Mexican border.

Makes no sense  to keep  cruising from/ to US idle and northern border closed for health reasons, while southern border wide open...very little or no testing or control.    Should apply restrictions equally or open up equally. Germs deadly regardless of source.

Edited March 30, 2021 by hcat

[Oceangoer2]

6 hours ago, mom says said:

And you think it's a cause for rejoicing , or just indifference, that case numbers and hospitalizations are rising again and so is the incidence of illness due to variants? And what percentage of your population is fully  vaccinated? Should she have got up and danced on her desk instead of warning about a continued need for caution? How many people have died due to COVID this week?

Numbers don't lie.  Those in positions of authority have to make difficult decisions and tell us like it is.  You can't tell people it's all wonderful when that is contrary to the facts.  Good on her.

[TeeRick]

18 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

And as I said to grandgeezer I did not flame her or any of her credentials. I actually watched the questioning between the Alaska Congresswoman and the CDC Director.  I take issue with her lack of knowledge of this issue.  That has nothing to do with how qualified she may be for the post.

Sorry Gracie115 if you feel my post was in response to your comments here.  It was not.  I was just agreeing with grandgeezer that she has excellent credentials to run the CDC.  That's all.  I do feel that this message board in general is leaning toward more negative than positive views of the CDC.  I understand that since this is a cruise forum and the CDC has singled out and shut down cruising.  

[Oceangoer2]

4 hours ago, Roger88 said:

These restrictions are being put down right now.. yes, slowly but we are about to get rid of them. I wonder how much longer it will take to abandon them once and for all.. 

And sometimes I wonder how many of these posts are from some in other countries which are meant to start reaction and not necessarily in our best interests.

[Oceangoer2]

9 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Far more than 5.

 

Carnivals, state and county fairs, sports venues (yes, baseball played, but no fans.  Football had some fans, but no concessions in many arenas.), film industry complete shut down for months (open now), music venues completely shut down (which includes concessions, etc.), theaters (movies just now beginning to open, live theater still closed), convention centers....

 

So that's seven, eight if you want to separate state and county fairs.  The thing is, those that I mentioned affected hundreds of thousands of people.  Just look at a state fair.  All the people who work it, then you have all the food and retail vendors and the people who clean up the area all day every day.  The seven/eight I mentioned affected more people than all the cruise lines in their shut down. It trickled down to hotels losing business, gas stations losing business, restaurants, the food industry, etc., etc.

 

By the way, i didn't do much research.  I knew of those because they all affected me in some way last year, from losing my theater package to losing my 10-game season ticket package for minor league baseball to having to cancel my trip to the Illinois State Fair.

 

Yeah, cruising is big in the news because of the billions of dollars it's lost, but they're far from the only industry to still be shut down.

The original point in a prior post was....if a ship is shut down due to the virus,  in past experience ....you're not getting off.  If a building is shut down, you can leave it and go home.  Simplest terms.  Everyone has been affected, not just industry, theatre, state fairs, sports tickets, etc...but day to day lives...literally.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

7 hours ago, mom says said:

And you think it's a cause for rejoicing , or just indifference, that case numbers and hospitalizations are rising again and so is the incidence of illness due to variants? And what percentage of your population is fully  vaccinated? Should she have got up and danced on her desk instead of warning about a continued need for caution? How many people have died due to COVID this week?

 

I don't think there is anything to rejoice about. But I do think that the propaganda machine is about to go on full blast. The push to get everyone vaxed up is coming right at us. More fear mongering about increased cases while at the same time making statements that the vaccines are showing positive results to prevent covid as well. 

 

Hang on... because this is just the start. Soon we will see the full gauntlet from the Sunday morning news shows to the View and everything in between. Hollywood, Entertainers from Sports to Music will be doing PSAs and on our TVs, Radio, PODs, you name it.   

[markeb]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I want to take this thread in a slightly different direction.   On Monday, Rochelle Walensky, the CDC Director was on the Rachel Maddow show and said that CDC data released that same day “suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick, and that it’s not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data.”  I believe that might be the first time the CDC has publicly made that statement which might turn out to be huge for the cruise/travel industry. Her Statement was based on an internal study....and here is the link for anyone that really wants to get into the nitty gritty:

Interim Estimates of Vaccine Effectiveness of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Health Care Personnel, First Responders, and Other Essential and Frontline Workers — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–March 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

 

For those not familiar with the MMWR it is an official weekly publication of the CDC and it is widely read in the healthcare industry (used to come to my desk every week).

 

Think about it, we now have the CDC Director admitting that their own data shows that vaccinated folks cannot spread COVID (if you don't carry the virus you cannot spread the virus).  So a cruise ship that had 100% vaccinated passengers would not be at risk (or at very minimal risk) to any port.  One could also argue that there is absolutely no reason why a ship with 100% vaccinated passengers should not be able to move in and out of US Ports.   

 

It will be interesting to see if the CLIA and its members jump on this statement.

 

Hank

P.S.  While Dr. Walensky did make this wonderful statement on Monday, today she was all doom and gloom about increasing COVID cases.  But death rates continue to fall as apparently most of the new infections are among younger folks.

 

I think we've got good news and uncertain news mixing here over the last few days.

 

Good news: The analyses showing significant decreased transmission following vaccination is really good. I've been very cautious for months that the trials were not designed to get that information so no one knew; we may not "know" from purely scientific basis (high hurdle), but I think everyone's becoming comfortable that the vaccines really do cut transmission. Good news.

 

Bad news: If you read the entire press conference from yesterday, test positive cases are up on the seven day moving average. That's lagged about two weeks behind behavior (especially holidays, or in this case, probably spring break) over the course of the pandemic. And they're seeing more of the B117, more contagious variant.

 

Mixed news: Reading multiple sources, there's a slight uptick in hospitalization so far. That runs another couple of weeks behind test positives. I haven't seen a primary source on this, but it appears hospitalizations, especially ICU admissions, are dramatically down in the over 65 cohort. One hospital I saw in an article on WAPO commented they hadn't admitted anyone in that age group to the ICU over some period long enough to be noticeable. What they are now seeing is their primary hospitalizations are in the 40-65 group and some younger than that. Those are folks just now coming into the zone for vaccination, may be convinced they don't need vaccination, and probably more likely to drop other protective measures. I think that's where you get the gloom and doom message that we're almost there, please help us a little longer.

[HMR74]

this  issue of this thread is:

CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions

 

And as it stands now, the CDC is in no mood to approval sailing out of US ports. Which was my point when I posted the Directors comments. Regardless of which way we feel about it.

 

 

Yesterday the CDC reported that the vaccines were 90% effective. I have had my shots as has my wife. Sunday was the first time we had another couple over, they too were vaccinated and it was my wifes sister . First time in over a year.

 

So how does anybody know that the vaccines are 90% effective--if many of us have not been out yet.

 

Just asking.

 

I actually think that between the vaccine and people improving their immune systems with Vit D C , exercising and good diet practices, etc those folks should be in pretty good shape, but perfection will never be achieved.

 

I also believe the cruise lines are doing a pretty darn good job in planning for this, not perfect but pretty darn good.

 

I thought the ship we last sailed on in Dec 2019 was rather well maintained--That's now the past  and Its going to be much better.

 

There is only one way to know--got to have sailings.  And not just a few. and have to have ongoing studies, and if something does go wrong, does the cruise line and ship have the proper response.

 

That is about all they can do rather than permanently shutting down, which if you follow financial statements, there is a date for each cruise line out there where they just throw in the towel.

 

By the way, this is all very well publicized, and nobody is forcing anybody to go on a cruise if they think this is all crazy.

 

Except perhaps a spouse.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by HMR74

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I don't think there is anything to rejoice about. But I do think that the propaganda machine is about to go on full blast. The push to get everyone vaxed up is coming right at us. More fear mongering about increased cases while at the same time making statements that the vaccines are showing positive results to prevent covid as well. 

 

Hang on... because this is just the start. Soon we will see the full gauntlet from the Sunday morning news shows to the View and everything in between. Hollywood, Entertainers from Sports to Music will be doing PSAs and on our TVs, Radio, PODs, you name it.   

And so we should ALL be kept in the dark because some don't want to hear what they don't want to hear?

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry Gracie115 if you feel my post was in response to your comments here.  It was not.  I was just agreeing with grandgeezer that she has excellent credentials to run the CDC.  That's all.  I do feel that this message board in general is leaning toward more negative than positive views of the CDC.  I understand that since this is a cruise forum and the CDC has singled out and shut down cruising.  

Oh, it's all good..... I think we are all just cruise hungry at this point.   Sure hope by next year this time we are all posting about our first cruises back on the water!😁

[ECCruise]

43 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

Fauci went to baseball games until someone told him it was bad optics. 

Oh, come on.  Fauci went to ONE game which opened the 2020 season and threw out the first (badly thrown but he is 80) pitch to signify that games could at least be played. 

He was invited there by MLB, the NY Yankees and the Washington Nationals.  It wasn't like he was there to simply enjoy a game to your detriment. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by ECCruise

[Spif Barwunkel]

For those of you who feel that the CDC is much too guarded in it's approach to re-start cruising, here is a bit of information that I feel is quite pertinent.

 

Recently, central Florida has reported dozens of fully vaccinated persons are testing positive for the Corona virus. Needless to say, that would be dis-heartening for anyone, especially those who were injudicious enough to feel that they no longer were susceptible. 

 

Lot's of good news in the Covid world, no doubt. Lot's more to find out, as well. At some point in time we have to try something cruising. It seems that is going to happen over the next several months. At the same time, it's a cautionary tale should be told in order to compensate for the enthusiastic optimism of positivity. Is there a time limit for caution in the Covid world? If there is, let me know. In the meantime, I'm not setting my clock accordingly.  

[rmalbers]

I think at least some of this is because there are still some crazy unknowns about covid.  I think it was last week there was a new study released about the 'super spreaders'.   I know that has been talked about before but it seems like it really is part of the  puzzle.  If they could find a way to identify super spreaders.  We also have the long term affects that seem sort of crazy, with at least some people but we don't know why.  Even with everyone having had a shot if a super spreader gets on board there could be a bunch of sick people.  They really have a lot to learn about this crazy bug and I'm not sure the cruise companies are really ready to find out yet.  It's sort of like they are waiting for the other one, you go first, with the big cruise companies.  (I know, there is a little activity but I'm talking all out, resume.)

[Hlitner]

20 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

For those of you who feel that the CDC is much too guarded in it's approach to re-start cruising, here is a bit of information that I feel is quite pertinent.

 

Recently, central Florida has reported dozens of fully vaccinated persons are testing positive for the Corona virus. Needless to say, that would be dis-heartening for anyone, especially those who were injudicious enough to feel that they no longer were susceptible. 

 

Lot's of good news in the Covid world, no doubt. Lot's more to find out, as well. At some point in time we have to try something cruising. It seems that is going to happen over the next several months. At the same time, it's a cautionary tale should be told in order to compensate for the enthusiastic optimism of positivity. Is there a time limit for caution in the Covid world? If there is, let me know. In the meantime, I'm not setting my clock accordingly.  

Folks see and hear what they want to see and hear.  We have vaccines with an efficacy rate that seem to fall in the 90-95% area (depending on which study you view).  This means that between 5 and 10% of vaccinated folks could very well contract COVID (although there is good data that the severity of the infection will likely be mild).   In Florida there are approximately 6 million who have been vaccinated so even if you use the lower 5% number one would expect 300,000 of vaccinated folks to test positive for COVID.   So "dozens" of folks testing positive is well within the expected outcome.  What does not often get mentioned is how many of those who have been fully vaccinated end up being hospitalized because of COVID and that number is so low it is not even discussed or shown in most stats.

 

Hank

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

It is one thing to be a good technician or professional on an area or topic, say being a Doctor. It is another thing to be a good manager or leader of the same group. It happens all the time -I think its was called "The Peter Principle".

The Peter Principle reflects attaining one position higher than what that person is most likely able to manage (in mgmt opinion) and is usually the 'last stop' on the ladder.  This principle doesn't apply to managing a particular group outside qualifications which happens all the time in senior mgmt. which brings in a different set of abilities and viewpoint.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Oceangoer2

[Gracie115]

26 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

 

 

Recently, central Florida has reported dozens of fully vaccinated persons are testing positive for the Corona virus. Needless to say, that would be dis-heartening for anyone, especially those who were injudicious enough to feel that they no longer were susceptible. 

 

 

Where did you read/see this?  I live here, haven't heard anything about this.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Gracie115

[Jeremiah1212]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Folks see and hear what they want to see and hear.  We have vaccines with an efficacy rate that seem to fall in the 90-95% area (depending on which study you view).  This means that between 5 and 10% of vaccinated folks could very well contract COVID (although there is good data that the severity of the infection will likely be mild).   In Florida there are approximately 6 million who have been vaccinated so even if you use the lower 5% number one would expect 300,000 of vaccinated folks to test positive for COVID.   So "dozens" of folks testing positive is well within the expected outcome.  What does not often get mentioned is how many of those who have been fully vaccinated end up being hospitalized because of COVID and that number is so low it is not even discussed or shown in most stats.

 

Hank

 

Not really....efficacy is based on the individual, not the group. It means the individual has a 95% less chance of getting sick with COVID at each exposure, not 5% of the group would test positive. 

[cruisemom42]

19 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Where did you read/see this?  I live here, haven't heard anything about this.

 

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/29/dozens-in-central-florida-contract-covid-19-after-being-fully-vaccinated/

[Auntiemomo]

23 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/29/dozens-in-central-florida-contract-covid-19-after-being-fully-vaccinated/

My understanding of the vaccine was not to immunize you from catching the virus but help protect you from dying if you did caught the virus.