CDC says we may be able to start cruising from US this summer

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, BeachyBrowns said:

There's plenty of arguing to do on this thread, but here's my take on the OP:

 

CDC would be fine with cruising restarting, as long as there is no statistically significant increase in cases related to cruising that CDC would be blamed for, given that they seem to have unique power to stop cruising altogether.

 

Here's the problem: in order to sail on an enclosed ship safely, there needs to be solid evidence that vaccines prevent Covid from spreading on the ship.  Why are vaccines so important?  Because CDC knows that the performative "cruises to nowhere" with restricted capacity and mandatory masking and distancing are not going to satisfy the cruise lines or cruisers for very long.  Both cruisers and cruise lines want things as close to normal as they used to be.  I sure do.

 

In order to accumulate that evidence, there must be test cruises of vaccinated people in which there are no outbreaks.  In order to allow test cruises, CDC must be satisfied that the variants that are driving the stall in case decreases are also controlled by the vaccine; CDC is clearly not satisfied with that evidence yet.  And they are in a no-win situation: they will not get credit for allowing cruises to restart; they will only be blamed for the first cruise ship outbreak, if it occurs.  They would rather be the bad guys urging caution than cave to pressure to restart and then have to answer for an avoidable outbreak.  

 

So, CDC cover their rear end.  They require lines to jump through unrealistic hoops to restart cruising, thereby allowing them to say, "welp, we did all we could to prevent Covid from spreading on cruise ships."  They don't care whether cruising, which is near the bottom of the list of human activities in importance, restarts; they just want to keep their public health credibility intact.

Excellent post!

[smokeybandit]

2 hours ago, BeachyBrowns said:

Covid is killing people while flu is not because Covid is more contagious and more severe, so it spreads despite the partial participation in mitigation efforts; flu is less contagious and less severe, so even the partial participation in mitigation efforts has nipped it in the bud. 

This is so false it's not funny.

 

Covid is killing more 1) because it targets elderly and those medically vulnerable, and 2) because we use a totally different way to record covid deaths as we do flu deaths. Flu deaths are estimated based on those who 1) test positive, 2) see a doctor and 3) are hospitalized. Covid deaths are merely dying within 30 days of testing positive or showing covid symptoms without a positive test.

 

Mitigation efforts haven't worked anywhere except small island nations who can get away with completely closing their borders.  Take a look at regional data in the USA.  Take states with severe mitigations efforts put along side states with limited mitigation efforts. Their covid trends are IDENTICAL.

 

Flu is non-existent this year due to viral interference. Basically covid is shutting the flu (and other lessor coronaviruses) out.

Edited April 9, 2021 by smokeybandit

[Missusdubbya]

9 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I think the whole thing is based on one's conditioning...I couldn't and wouldn't want to live this way. Others are conditioned by PSAs etc to do this so it's not big deal for them. I've not heard of this app in use in Texas and most definitely do not know others that use it.

I think a predisposition to collective cooperation is cultural, rather than conditioning.
 

I am very open to collectively preventing virus spread as are most Australians, and we believe contact tracing is an important part of prevention.

 

A very different cultural attitude to yours (on this occasion 😁).

[mek]

9 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

The mask in the car is kinda silly but there is a reason for the wiping down of the groceries. Who knows if an infected person touched the item after wiping their nose etc! We did wait until we got home though. Since we have had our shots we do not do that anymore but we still wear a mask, wipe down our cart and use a disinfectant wipe on our hands before we open the car door. 

I no longer wipe down my groceries, although I will admit I did that until after I was fully vaccinated.  I will continue to wipe the handle on a grocery cart before I use it, but I don't, (and never have), wiped the outside handle on my car. - I have hand sanitizer in my car and always sanitize my hands once inside.

I've never worn a mask in my car and I've never worn one outside - even at the beginning of the pandemic,(but I would if it was required for something like attending an outside sporting event or concert.)

[mek]

1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

There was a mask wearer at our pool today. All wet and below her nose. Priceless 🤣

Wish I could have seen that!

[sgmn]

6 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I thought it was Covid that killed people. Not anti-maskers. What was it that killed all the folks in Europe? Didn’t they wear masks?

It's fairly unusual to see someone wearing a mask outdoors. It's only necessary on public transport or inside shops. 

[Keksie]

5 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

If you carry a phone, you are already being tracked in many ways. If you use a debit card, credit card, transit pass, drive a car in a city, go through a toll booth, you are being tracked, the list goes on and on. 

Cash and leave the phone at home.

[ThirstyCruiser]

Is there anything wrong with me if I wear a N95 while I shower?  🤪

 

 

[dswallow]

36 minutes ago, ThirstyCruiser said:

Is there anything wrong with me if I wear a N95 while I shower?  🤪

 

 

 

The answer to that depends on where on your body you're wearing it.

[voyager70]

I've recently added a bandana to my Covid KN-95 mask.  Total badass.

 

[RoamingRetirees]

1 minute ago, voyager70 said:

I've recently added a bandana to my Covid KN-95 mask.  Total badass.

 

What, no face shield?

[voyager70]

4 minutes ago, RoamingRetirees said:

What, no face shield?

, 

Bandana goes over the head, I'll try the face shield next 😉

[Arzeena]

4 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

There was a mask wearer at our pool today. All wet and below her nose. Priceless 🤣

I wore a mask at the pool too. Over my nose, tucked under my sunglasses. I was only floating around in a tube on a lazy river, so it was not wet. Yeah people laughed at me, stared at me, but they wasted their precious pool time staring at someone....I enjoyed my outing. 😃

[mek]

1 minute ago, Arzeena said:

I wore a mask at the pool too. Over my nose, tucked under my sunglasses. I was only floating around in a tube on a lazy river, so it was not wet. Yeah people laughed at me, stared at me, but they wasted their precious pool time staring at someone....I enjoyed my outing. 😃

If that made you feel good then more power to you - just don't expect me to do the same or give me dirty looks if I don't.

[livingonthebeach]

6 hours ago, sandebeach said:

I am looking at their website and says that yo can book for July. I don't see anything about capacity limits.

 

I meant the under 250 passengers rule which doesn't fall under CDC control - reason why they are allowed to sail from Palm Beach. 

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, Arzeena said:

I wore a mask at the pool too. Over my nose, tucked under my sunglasses. I was only floating around in a tube on a lazy river, so it was not wet. Yeah people laughed at me, stared at me, but they wasted their precious pool time staring at someone....I enjoyed my outing. 😃

 

It was the below her nose that made me snicker. That and the fact that it was all wet. She eventually pitched it

[Goodtime Cruizin]

6 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

I think a predisposition to collective cooperation is cultural, rather than conditioning.
 

I am very open to collectively preventing virus spread as are most Australians, and we believe contact tracing is an important part of prevention.

 

A very different cultural attitude to yours (on this occasion 😁).

 

I think it's because Australia borders no other country. so there is a thought process, that's it's on us as Australians to fix this. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the US or even Europe. Our borders are badly porous (sp) & international flights never stopped. Living on near the southern border all my life, I expereinced first hand the results of this border not in check. On a different note, heck one could drive across the US.... no probelms. One could take mass transit, subways, you name it. I of course can not and will not even attempt to speak for my feelow Americans, but on a personal level I could see some things happening that just did not make sense. This is the conditioning I was speaking to.   

[Arzeena]

21 hours ago, mek said:

If that made you feel good then more power to you - just don't expect me to do the same or give me dirty looks if I don't.

21 hours ago, mek said:

If that made you feel good then more power to you - just don't expect me to do the same or give me dirty looks if I don't.

Where did you read that I will give you a dirty look? Do I even know what you look like? LOL

I don't expect people to do what I do. Everyone has their own comfort standards.

[Arzeena]

19 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

It was the below her nose that made me snicker. That and the fact that it was all wet. She eventually pitched it

LOL!

[Iamcruzin]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:18 AM, dswallow said:

 

Do you own/carry a cell phone?

Never mind that. All you have to do is walk down a block in your own neighborhood and everyone who has a ring doorbell is recording you as you pass by. 

[Keksie]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Never mind that. All you have to do is walk down a block in your own neighborhood and everyone who has a ring doorbell is recording you as you pass by. 

There are only 7 houses on my mile long road and all are far away from the road with trees so you actually could walk my neighborhood and not be recorded.  I know there are many ways to be located if someone really wants to.  Some take warrants and some are available to anyone with time on their hands who want to look through hours of tape.  I won't add to those possibilities with an app on my phone.  

[BecciBoo]

On 4/9/2021 at 1:48 PM, BeachyBrowns said:

 

 

 

 

  They don't care whether cruising, which is near the bottom of the list of human activities in importance, restarts; they just want to keep their public health credibility intact.

I guess getting a tattoo, haircut or watching some jerk play a sport is significantly more important, right?  Geez, we can't all live under rocks for the rest of our lives.  And as far as Big Brother is concerned, you are being tracked in so many ways it would make your head explode...you ARE on a high speed wireless device aren't you....puleeeze.

Edited April 11, 2021 by BecciBoo

[BecciBoo]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:16 PM, Ocean Boy said:

I have no axe to grind. 

I guess her axe is already been ground to a high degree of sharpness. LOL

[B Midged]

10 hours ago, Navis said:

This has really been a difficult few days for me on this Board. I’ve tried to remain objective and level-headed while at all times respecting each person’s right to decide for his or herself what is right for them and their family. But I drew the line at fact .. we are all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts.

 

I have been on these boards for a long time (under a prior screen name for which I lost both the password and the email I was using). I joined because when we first started cruising we came here for advice and guidance and there are so many wonderful contributors here (looking at you Bird Travels, Jamie Logical and, of course the DougOut’s famous trip reports). We became cruisers because of all the great tips and insight you all provided and continue to provide. I would never have even learned about all NCL had to offer without you all. And we owe you all thanks for all great memories our family has made.

 

I wanted to join to give back and provide insight to other cruisers and be part of what was such an amazing community of enthusiastic cruisers! So much has changed here and it’s very disheartening to me.

 

I went to bed last night really down on the level of discourse on this Board ... knowing full well the part that I have played. The constant back and forth and the confirmation bias is worse here than on other social media sites. At first I thought it was a function of the fact that no one is cruising now so what else is there to talk about? Then I checked in on another Board on here ... Seabourn (where our next 2 cruises are scheduled on .. but we shall see). The discourse on that Board (although far less active) is so much more civil. And all my interactions there have been respectful.

 

I woke up this morning very upset to see what had transpired overnight and various posts throughout the day have clarified things greatly for me. At this time, I think it right that I bid farewell to this Board. I wish you all health and wellness and if anyone wants to find me I’ll be over on the Seabourn board.

Clear skies and calm breezes to you all.

 

 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

In a related story, hundreds of thousands of people are arriving at our southern border on foot as no negative testing for entry is required.

 

21 minutes ago, Keksie said:

There are only 7 houses on my mile long road and all are far away from the road with trees so you actually could walk my neighborhood and not be recorded.  I know there are many ways to be located if someone really wants to.  Some take warrants and some are available to anyone with time on their hands who want to look through hours of tape.  I won't add to those possibilities with an app on my phone.  

Just where are you going that is such a secret anyway?  Do you think the government actually cares?

[Keksie]

23 minutes ago, B Midged said:

 

 

Just where are you going that is such a secret anyway?  Do you think the government actually cares?

Nowhere and no I don't think they care.  It is the principal of the tracking that I am not willing to just accept.  As for the covid app or tracelets there are just too many unanswered questions.  How close do you need to be to someone and for how long to be notified?  How many days out?  How contagious was that person at that time? For instance could you have been in a store, passed by a person, who 5 days later tested positive?  On the ship could you have been in the same dining room but far away from someone who tests positive causing you to be let off at the next port?