5-13-21 New CDC Covid 19 "When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated" guidlines...

[Daniel A]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Not practical. The CDC says the ship cannot sail unless at least 95% of the passengers are vaccinated.

 

Proof would be required before boarding the ship.

That requirement only applies to ships looking to be exempt from conducting trial cruises.  Any ship that goes the trial cruise route to reopen can ask for the vaccination status of PAX when they are also accepting unvaccinated PAX.  I think those situations are what were being referenced - otherwise in a totally vaccinated cruise, the whole ship would be a vaccinated only area.

 

I think there are several lines that don't want vaccinated only cruises so this guidance would apply to them.

[MJC]

Forbes is the only source I've found for this so far, but let's hope it's true. Exemption from FL vaccine passport law for cruise lines.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/

[MJC]

It appears that Forbes added this headline to an older article, so perhaps they will update with more news soon. I can't find coverage (yet?) from another news site, but hoping this is true.

[Redwing55]

16 hours ago, sept10dsm said:

How does anyone feel about the recovered?  There are many and have antibodies.  Since the vaccine doesn't prevent or stop spread I just wonder. 

I don't see this as being true in any way.  The vaccine has shown to reduce, if not eliminate the spread.  If you can point to multiple studies stating otherwise, so be it, But whether it does or doesn't, why does that matter here?

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

A vaccinated person CAN spread the virus and here is how. They catch it from one that is not vaccinated. It no longer has any effect on them but can now spread it to those that are not vaccinated or never have had the virus to get antibodies. You can GOOGLE it.

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

That requirement only applies to ships looking to be exempt from conducting trial cruises.  Any ship that goes the trial cruise route to reopen can ask for the vaccination status of PAX when they are also accepting unvaccinated PAX.  I think those situations are what were being referenced - otherwise in a totally vaccinated cruise, the whole ship would be a vaccinated only area.

 

I think there are several lines that don't want vaccinated only cruises so this guidance would apply to them.

 

My comment was in response to a post about cruises that did require the 95% vaccinations. That post suggested providing the proof once at sea, not before boarding.

[caribill]

3 hours ago, MJC said:

Forbes is the only source I've found for this so far, but let's hope it's true. Exemption from FL vaccine passport law for cruise lines.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/

 

"Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.” "

 

I wonder if the Gov will then agree that Florida sales tax no longer needs to be paid on beverage purchases made on the ship before it leaves the pier since the ship is no longer in Florida with his logic.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

5 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

"Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.” "

 

I wonder if the Gov will then agree that Florida sales tax no longer needs to be paid on beverage purchases made on the ship before it leaves the pier since the ship is no longer in Florida.

You are not in international waters till you are 3 miles out.

[Daniel A]

23 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I don't think it would be like steerage vs first class separations, only some venues might be vaccinated only venues such as making one or two lounges and the buffet for vaccinated only.  The unvaccinated would most likely still have free access to most of the ship with a few restricted areas for vax only.  At least the vax PAX would have the freedom to not mask or distance in certain areas.

 

The Florida law doesn't prohibit a cruise line from asking guests to voluntarily show proof of vaccination.  I think the law prohibits requiring proof in order to board the ship at all.  If passengers voluntarily provide the proof once onboard and the ship opens up the vax only venues once at sea, then there wouldn't be a violation of the Florida law.

 

47 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

My comment was in response to a post about cruises that did require the 95% vaccinations. That post suggested providing the proof once at sea, not before boarding.

Your comment was definitely in response to my post at #71 (posted again here)  Nowhere in that post did I make reference to the 95% vaccinated cruises that are looking to be exempt from the test cruise phase of the CDC Framework.  Obviously, if everyone onboard a cruise ship is vaccinated then the entire ship would be a 'vaccinated only' zone.  The new CDC guidance is clearly meant to apply to the cruises which will be a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers.  In those instances, a ship sailing from either Florida or Texas which bans vaccine requirements could ask for proof of vaccination in order to create restricted venues once outside the state limits and it wouldn't violate the state ban.  If it were a vaccinated only cruise, then it wouldn't make sense to create vaccinated only areas on the ship.

 

I hope this clarifies the intent of my prior posts.

[beg3yrs]

4 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

A vaccinated person CAN spread the virus and here is how. They catch it from one that is not vaccinated. It no longer has any effect on them but can now spread it to those that are not vaccinated or never have had the virus to get antibodies. You can GOOGLE it.

Yes but even the CDC says that vaccinated persons have a much lower viral load if they're a breakthrough case hence the spread of the virus through vaccinated people while not zero, is very unlikely.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

5 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

Yes but even the CDC says that vaccinated persons have a much lower viral load if they're a breakthrough case hence the spread of the virus through vaccinated people while not zero, is very unlikely.

So what did I say that is not correct? 

[Redwing55]

2 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

So what did I say that is not correct? 

Word for word.  ok sure.  But similarly, it's deadly to swim or drive a car...or even just go out in public since one can catch all sorts of diseases or even just get hit by lightening.  There are literally millions of situations that may result in ones premature passing. Putting a reliable risk factor to it should typically be included.. otherwise it can be misleading and fear mongering.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Redwing55

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

Word for word.  ok sure.  But similarly, it's deadly to swim or drive a car...or even just go out in public since one can catch all sorts of diseases or even just get hit by lightening.  There are literally millions of situations that may result in ones premature passing. Putting a reliable risk factor to it should typically be included.. otherwise it can be misleading and fear mongering.

 

A man who was born to hang will never drown...

[beg3yrs]

4 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

So what did I say that is not correct? 

Where in my post did I say you were wrong?

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

A vaccinated person CAN spread the virus and here is how. They catch it from one that is not vaccinated. It no longer has any effect on them but can now spread it to those that are not vaccinated or never have had the virus to get antibodies. You can GOOGLE it.

Currently, the breakthrough infection rate of vaccinated people is 0.009%. That is such a low incidence of breakthrough infection, the possibility of a vaccinated person transmitting the virus to others is not zero but extremely low. Read about it HERE.

 

[gmjc2]

A poster on the roll call for the 5th June Celebrity took his test in preparation for his flight on Thursday. It came back positive even though he had his vaccinations. So it does happen and now he and his wife have had to cancel there cruise and go into isolation. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, gmjc2 said:

A poster on the roll call for the 5th June Celebrity took his test in preparation for his flight on Thursday. It came back positive even though he had his vaccinations. So it does happen and now he and his wife have had to cancel there cruise and go into isolation. 

Can he take a second test and hope it comes back negative? False positives do occur.

[gmjc2]

40 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Can he take a second test and hope it comes back negative? False positives do occur.

Unfortunately he cancelled the cruise and went into quarantine as mandated by his local health authority.

[LACruiser88]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Can he take a second test and hope it comes back negative? False positives do occur.

There have been lots of False Positive tests.  A vaccinated relative of ours recently tested positive for a pre-flight test for Hawaii.  Three subsequent tests were all negative.

[ChutChut]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:16 AM, MJC said:

Forbes is the only source I've found for this so far, but let's hope it's true. Exemption from FL vaccine passport law for cruise lines.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/

Don't think this story is credible. It's now a law and the FL legislature would have to amend it.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, gmjc2 said:

Unfortunately he cancelled the cruise and went into quarantine as mandated by his local health authority.

That is a shame. He should have at least been able to get a second test, especially since as you said he has had his vaccinations.

[ChutChut]

On 5/31/2021 at 11:21 AM, caribill said:

 

"Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.” "

 

I wonder if the Gov will then agree that Florida sales tax no longer needs to be paid on beverage purchases made on the ship before it leaves the pier since the ship is no longer in Florida with his logic.

Story is an older one and before legislature passed actual law. 

[ontheweb]

18 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

There have been lots of False Positive tests.  A vaccinated relative of ours recently tested positive for a pre-flight test for Hawaii.  Three subsequent tests were all negative.

Yes, a major problem with testing, especially any quick tests, are the false results, both false positives and false negatives. Both are a problem.

[caribill]

51 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Story is an older one and before legislature passed actual law. 

But the same twisted logic would apply with the actual law.

 

In reality, not apply at all.

[stevenr597]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:37 PM, CruiseVA said:

If they do, under current executive orders for the Gov of Florida they will not be able to operate. 

 

Have to disagree.  The State of Florida is already in talks to work around this. I believe that they have already agreed on a plan in respect to the Disney Theme Park.

On 5/14/2021 at 10:08 AM, Ride-The-Waves said:

westcoaster:  Many just don't understand that this is an evolving challenge for the medical profession and thus for those government officials charged with keep people safe and healthy.  We have come a long way since the "Black Death."  We no, longer use leeches to drain blood from those who are ill.  As you have well stated, many factors are used before recommendations for health and safety directives are promulgated.  Thankfully, the current CDC director is a well respected physician, scientist and administrator, and not a political hack.

I do wish that I could agree with you in respect to your conclusion about the CDC.  But the sad fact is that much of the knowledge which the CDC has used to guide their recent conclusions has been out there for many months. T The CDC has acknowledged that they do listen to "Special Interest Groups" which has had a significant influence on their decisions>

The current Director is certainly well respected and well trained, but she has shown in the recent past that she will indeed bend to the politics.

The role of the CDC is to make recommendations which is "Evidence Based"  That is based on reputable medical articles basedon reputable medical research, not on opinions.  It is then up to the government to decide if they wish to follow and implement their decisions.