5-13-21 New CDC Covid 19 "When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated" guidlines...

[nocl]

48 minutes ago, nocl said:

Yes and no.  It is clear that the feds control the rules dealing with international ships entering the US and docking at ports. 

 

However, the ports in Florida are either owned by the state or by local government. Those agencies also run the ports, not an agency of the federal government.  

 

There are cases where State and local agencies have prevented ships from docking (the Grand in California is a good example). 

 

Also note that ships in port follow state law when it comes to things like sales taxes and in Texas state liquor laws. So clearly state laws can impact ships operations in port.

 

The state and/or local agency could make a decision to shutdown a port.  

 

Clearly once a ship has left port the state would have no influence.

 

But it is rather unclear if a cruise line, operating in a port, checking vaccination status of passengers while in port could do so or not.  It will make for a rather interesting court case that could run the range from states rights, to the commerce clause, to maritime law and treaties.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I would like the cruise lines require vaccination, this could make a very interesting fight that could take some time working its way through the court system if the cruise lines do try and challenge the California law.

 

Also wonder if the cruise lines might use this as a reason why they will not require vaccination for cruises from the US and try the strategy with the CDC that state law prevents it.

 

 

Oops I meant to say Florida Law

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Yes and no.  It is clear that the feds control the rules dealing with international ships entering the US and docking at ports. 

 

However, the ports in Florida are either owned by the state or by local government. Those agencies also run the ports, not an agency of the federal government.  

 

There are cases where State and local agencies have prevented ships from docking (the Grand in California is a good example). 

 

Also note that ships in port follow state law when it comes to things like sales taxes and in Texas state liquor laws. So clearly state laws can impact ships operations in port.

 

The state and/or local agency could make a decision to shutdown a port.  

 

Clearly once a ship has left port the state would have no influence.

 

But it is rather unclear if a cruise line, operating in a port, checking vaccination status of passengers while in port could do so or not.  It will make for a rather interesting court case that could run the range from states rights, to the commerce clause, to maritime law and treaties.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I would like the cruise lines require vaccination, this could make a very interesting fight that could take some time working its way through the court system if the cruise lines do try and challenge the California law.

 

Also wonder if the cruise lines might use this as a reason why they will not require vaccination for cruises from the US and try the strategy with the CDC that state law prevents it.

 

 

very astute analysis.

[gmjc2]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:25 PM, LACruiser88 said:

New CDC guidelines released yesterday, eliminate the pre and post testing for vaccinated passengers...

Could you link to this info please.

[gmjc2]

This gov will allow the vaccination proof if it suits the big companies bottom line! He waxes and wanes with the money trail. In this case it is in our interests as cruisers plus for the workers who need to resume their jobs!

 

[Daniel A]

17 hours ago, ehogan said:

No vaccine mandate?  No cruises for us.  Will cancel our three upcoming Princess cruises.

Before you cancel, understand that Christine Duffy is only president of the line of Carnival branded ships.  Those Carnival ships tend to cater to younger customers many of whom have families with small children who are not currently eligible to get Covid vaccinations.  She has no connection with Princess Cruises, and does not speak for Princess.  Jan Swartz is the president of Princess which is a part of the Holland America Group which does not include Carnival Cruises.

 

I hope this helps.

[c-boy]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:25 PM, LACruiser88 said:

New CDC guidelines released yesterday, eliminate the pre and post testing for vaccinated passengers...

yes I read that article, encouraging news. 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

21 hours ago, Syracusefan44 said:

The Carnival Cruise line President Christine Duffy will be on NBC News with Lester Holt tonight at 6:30 p.m. Duffy will confirm active discussions with the CDC and that the cruise line is aiming for a July restart. She also confirms there will be NO vaccine mandate on board.

 

I Carnival is caving to DeSantis and in my opinion is making a big mistake putting four unvaccinated passengers in a stateroom and hoping they don’t have a COVID19 outbreak onboard a ship.

 

 

I agree. ALL cruise lines should ahve the opportunity to check for vaccinated or not. The cruise industry got living hell over the pandemic break out. I want to cruise on a ship that know if the passengers are vaccinated. I think DeSantis is the greatest Governor we ever had. But I totally disagree on this decision. He must make the cruise industry exempt from this.

[PMGS247]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:32 AM, CI66774 said:

Don’t agree with your “way around” speculation. I speculate the parties will find a solution that doesn’t violate FL law (legislature passed the law re: passports) but adheres to reasonable CDC suggestions (e.g. negative COVID tests, etc.).

 

I think that'll happen too, but I think you'll see cruise lines operate in two different capacities - fully vaccinated cruises and non-fully vaccinated cruises.  The non-fully vaccinated cruises will operate under significantly more restrictive rules and procedures in terms of tests, masks, etc. Other states will allow this distinction and I believe that's where most of the cruise business will go if FL doesn't allow it. 

 

I'm not saying zero cruises will go out of FL.  Non-vaccinated cruises will represent some portion, but I think the vaccinated / less restrictive cruises will be way more popular, and as a result if FL chooses not to allow it they will be giving up a significant portion of the cruising market share and take a big hit economically.

[MishelleMcc]

Some more info...  Things are evolving!

 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/cdc-lifts-covid-testing-requirement-vaccinated-passengers?fbclid=IwAR1K-DY53KQZvM_y4l566eDMpe8ejuEEMeNGpQVnbTvrROZXGx93YjsFB6c

[HappyInVan]

Don't forget there's one problem who's doubling down...

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/desantis-florida-fill-void-small-180129977.html

 

🙄

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

I already said this in another topic. Who cares? Those that are not vaccinated are taking a greater risk of getting the virus from others on the ship that are not vaccinated. Those that are vaccinated are far less susceptible, if at all.

[Sprigs616]

3 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I already said this in another topic. Who cares? Those that are not vaccinated are taking a greater risk of getting the virus from others on the ship that are not vaccinated. Those that are vaccinated are far less susceptible, if at all.

 

I won't take any cruise where vaccination isn't required.  I'm vaccinated and am not overly worried about catching Covid-19 even though I realize there's a slim chance that could happen.  I'm more worried about having my cruise ruined by an outbreak on the ship amongst unvaccinated passengers.  Most likely anyone vaccinated won't have to quarantine in their cabin but won't the cruise be halted if there's an outbreak? Will foreign countries allow tourists off a ship when there's an active outbreak onboard?  I think it's unlikely.   So, yes, I care.

[beg3yrs]

17 hours ago, Sprigs616 said:

 

I won't take any cruise where vaccination isn't required.  I'm vaccinated and am not overly worried about catching Covid-19 even though I realize there's a slim chance that could happen.  I'm more worried about having my cruise ruined by an outbreak on the ship amongst unvaccinated passengers.  Most likely anyone vaccinated won't have to quarantine in their cabin but won't the cruise be halted if there's an outbreak? Will foreign countries allow tourists off a ship when there's an active outbreak onboard?  I think it's unlikely.   So, yes, I care.

I understand these concerns but it seems to me they're based on what happened to ships during the initial outbreak last year when not much was known about the virus. Today the medical and public health communities know a lot more and I don't think having some cases occur on a ship will be treated the same way as last year. There certainly won't be the same level of panic.

 

I wonder what the experiences are of the cruises currently sailing in Europe and elsewhere. I'll bet they're not the sky-is-falling scenario many think it will be.

[DougandEric]

From the Princess site:

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/cdc-travel-advisories.html

 

So my concern is that although I probably won't get sick and it doesn't appear that I can spread the virus since I'm vaccinated, the ship could get beyond the threshold of infections and the cruise canceled.  Sorry to say but I have little faith in my fellow passengers to be vaccinated and potentially ruin my vacation.  This is repeatedly proven with people getting on with Noro and spreading it around.  Assuming they don't know they have Noro how would they possible know they have Covid-19?  If Princess won't enforce a vaccinated only passenger population, I most likely will cancel our cruise out of LA this November to Hawaii.  The wine country is lovely as an alternative.

[Sprigs616]

1 hour ago, beg3yrs said:

I wonder what the experiences are of the cruises currently sailing in Europe and elsewhere. I'll bet they're not the sky-is-falling scenario many think it will be.

I haven’t been following the cruise news as closely as I did a year ago.  I know there was a Royal Caribbean cruise that was halted in Singapore this past December (2020) and another cruise (not RC) that was halted last month in Japan.  Cruising is nowhere near “business as usual.”  If all passengers and crew are vaccinated, the cruise ships might have a fighting chance of staying in business. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Sprigs616

[Ombud]

Getting back close to topic:

 

[gmjc2]

It's the idea that they have thrown out there that the ships can have vaccinated areas and non-vaccinated areas that bugs me. If the non-vaccinated on the ship ( has to be kids or those with medical exemption) decide to use the vax area ,unless there are officers patrolling and asking for proof of vaccination, how do they stop them from entering the vax zone? Sounds rather like a syfy movie of the post apocalypse/plague world!! Love those movies by the way. We have learned a lot about surviving the Zombie Apocalypse ---😁😄

Edited May 30, 2021 by gmjc2

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

8 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

It's the idea that they have thrown out there that the ships can have vaccinated areas and non-vaccinated areas that bugs me. If the non-vaccinated on the ship ( has to be kids or those with medical exemption) decide to use the vax area ,unless there are officers patrolling and asking for proof of vaccination, how do they stop them from entering the vax zone? Sounds rather like a syfy movie of the post apocalypse/plague world!! Love those movies by the way. We have learned a lot about surviving the Zombie Apocalypse ---😁😄

I would think it is nothing more than something someone cooked up. No more than that.

[Daniel A]

14 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

It's the idea that they have thrown out there that the ships can have vaccinated areas and non-vaccinated areas that bugs me. If the non-vaccinated on the ship ( has to be kids or those with medical exemption) decide to use the vax area ,unless there are officers patrolling and asking for proof of vaccination, how do they stop them from entering the vax zone? Sounds rather like a syfy movie of the post apocalypse/plague world!! Love those movies by the way. We have learned a lot about surviving the Zombie Apocalypse ---😁😄

 

4 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I would think it is nothing more than something someone cooked up. No more than that.

The vaccinated only areas of the ship are an option the CDC has put out in their latest guidance.  It would likely work no differently than limiting access to Club Class Dining, expedited access to tenders for Elites, entry to the Elite/Platinum lounge or the concierge lounge. 

 

The CDC even said the Vaccination Only Area can be a self serve buffet area...No masks or social distancing needed. 💉😊

 

I think CDC is now offering whatever incentives it can to induce more people to take the vaccine.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

4 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

 

The vaccinated only areas of the ship are an option the CDC has put out in their latest guidance.  It would likely work no differently than limiting access to Club Class Dining, expedited access to tenders for Elites, entry to the Elite/Platinum lounge or the concierge lounge. 

 

The CDC even said the Vaccination Only Area can be a self serve buffet area...No masks or social distancing needed. 💉😊

 

I think CDC is now offering whatever incentives it can to induce more people to take the vaccine.

I would thin that putting all unvaccinated persons in the same area is giving them a greater chance of getting covid19. It would be stupid to do so. If sailing out of a Florida port. Currently, they would have no idea who is or is not vaccinated anyhow.

[Daniel A]

42 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I would thin that putting all unvaccinated persons in the same area is giving them a greater chance of getting covid19. It would be stupid to do so. If sailing out of a Florida port. Currently, they would have no idea who is or is not vaccinated anyhow.

I don't think it would be like steerage vs first class separations, only some venues might be vaccinated only venues such as making one or two lounges and the buffet for vaccinated only.  The unvaccinated would most likely still have free access to most of the ship with a few restricted areas for vax only.  At least the vax PAX would have the freedom to not mask or distance in certain areas.

 

The Florida law doesn't prohibit a cruise line from asking guests to voluntarily show proof of vaccination.  I think the law prohibits requiring proof in order to board the ship at all.  If passengers voluntarily provide the proof once onboard and the ship opens up the vax only venues once at sea, then there wouldn't be a violation of the Florida law.

 

P.S. Thank you for your service.-- Memorial Day 2021 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Daniel A

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

19 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I don't think it would be like steerage vs first class separations, only some venues might be vaccinated only venues such as making one or two lounges and the buffet for vaccinated only.  The unvaccinated would most likely still have free access to most of the ship with a few restricted areas for vax only.  At least the vax PAX would have the freedom to not mask or distance in certain areas.

 

The Florida law doesn't prohibit a cruise line from asking guests to voluntarily show proof of vaccination.  I think the law prohibits requiring proof in order to board the ship at all.  If passengers voluntarily provide the proof once onboard and the ship opens up the vax only venues once at sea, then there wouldn't be a violation of the Florida law.

 

P.S. Thank you for your service.-- Memorial Day 2021 

Thanks. Loved the NAVY. Well, guess with all the speculation we will find out for sure once it all begins.

[sept10dsm]

How does anyone feel about the recovered?  There are many and have antibodies.  Since the vaccine doesn't prevent or stop spread I just wonder. 

[caribill]

13 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

 

The Florida law doesn't prohibit a cruise line from asking guests to voluntarily show proof of vaccination.  I think the law prohibits requiring proof in order to board the ship at all.  If passengers voluntarily provide the proof once onboard and the ship opens up the vax only venues once at sea, then there wouldn't be a violation of the Florida law.

 

 

 

Not practical. The CDC says the ship cannot sail unless at least 95% of the passengers are vaccinated.

 

Proof would be required before boarding the ship.

[caribill]

8 hours ago, sept10dsm said:

How does anyone feel about the recovered?  There are many and have antibodies.  Since the vaccine doesn't prevent or stop spread I just wonder. 

 

The CDC feels that the recovered must still be fully vaccinated in order to take a cruise where vaccinations are required.