Cruise capacity limits as Covid protocol?

[happy cruzer]

Have seen very general mention that the cruise lines will do capacity limits.  Has anyone seen a detailed explanation of what a particular line intends to do or are currently doing?  There were even mention that inside cabins may not be available.

 

Sorry if this is a repeat question.

[Heidi13]

6 hours ago, happy cruzer said:

Have seen very general mention that the cruise lines will do capacity limits.  Has anyone seen a detailed explanation of what a particular line intends to do or are currently doing?  There were even mention that inside cabins may not be available.

 

Sorry if this is a repeat question.

 

Our preferred Line resumed operations on Saturday, departing from Portsmouth with 260 (if memory is correct). Next cruise is rumoured to be at 50%, which is about 460.

 

They don't have inside cabins, so unable to comment on that.

[navybankerteacher]

With airlines already filling middle seats, why would expect cruise lines to have restricted capacity for very long - especially if vaccination is required.

[jocap]

The ships now sailing from the UK can only have 1,000 passengers, or 50% of their usual numbers if they are smaller ships. This is the government's restrictions for May sailings.

There will be further announcements by the Prime Minister/Health Minister towards the end of June, possibly with higher numbers.

[happy cruzer]

Thanks for the info provided.  I am pretty sure that MSC and one other line had mentioned reducing the numbers onboard.  It could be for various reasons like to reduce crowding,  less people for excusions in ports, allow the staff more time for additional COVID protocal work??  who knows until the reports start coming in..  Would like to know how things are progressing.  Thanks.

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, happy cruzer said:

 

Sorry if this is a repeat question.

 

I think it is a great question.  Thanks for bringing it up.  It will be interesting to watch how this all shakes out.   

[Honolulu Blue]

21 hours ago, happy cruzer said:

Have seen very general mention that the cruise lines will do capacity limits.  Has anyone seen a detailed explanation of what a particular line intends to do or are currently doing?  There were even mention that inside cabins may not be available.

 

Several weeks ago, when NCL started planning their sailings outside the U.S., they initially said capacity would be limited to 60%, then increased to 80% after about a month, then to 100% after that.  I can't find that specific wording where I found it before and now I'm only seeing the considerably more vague "we'll control guest capacity" with no specific numbers or dates attached.  They've been selling interiors as long as I've looked.

[wowzz]

18 hours ago, jocap said:

The ships now sailing from the UK can only have 1,000 passengers, or 50% of their usual numbers if they are smaller ships. This is the government's restrictions for May sailings.

There will be further announcements by the Prime Minister/Health Minister towards the end of June, possibly with higher numbers.

If the road map dates hold firm, from June 21st cruise lines operating from the UK will be able to sail at full capacity, if they wish to do so. 

[Joebucks]

No one knows for sure yet

 

My wager is we will "follow the science" for a few months then go back to full capacity.

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

No one knows for sure yet

 

My wager is we will "follow the science" for a few months then go back to full capacity.

If we "followed the science" (to use your words) then there would be absolutely no COVID related limitation of any kind on ships that had a 100% Vaccinated policy.  The reality is that much of what has been done around the world in the past year had very little to do with "science" and a lot more to do with politics.  

 

Do politicians matter?  Consider that here in the USA the Trump Administration implemented Operation Warp Speed around 1 year ago and said that the answer to COVID was to develop and administer vaccines.  Trump was criticized for such a position and many ridiculed him when he promised we would have vaccines by the end of 2020.  So now we fast forward 1 year.  The USA implemented Operation Warp Speed, the Biden Administration doubled down on the program, and the USA is now quickly moving out of the COVID danger zone to a normal life with over half its adult population already vaccinated.  Meanwhile over in Japan, for whatever reason, their leaders did not emphasize any vaccination program (only 2% of their population is vaccinated) and now they are paying a price.  They are suffering a new surge in COVID cases, and unless they keep their people locked down for at least another 6 months they will likely suffer more (and worse) surges.  The only reason half the Japanese population are not now vaccinated is because their political leaders messed up.....big time!

 

Hank

[Donald]

You may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have been talking, thinking, and planning for this situation for over a year. My colleagues at some of the better lines have shown me detailed plans for manning levels, operations, booking levels, service levels, etc, based on every permutation of percentage of occupancy.

They are not going to publish this internal information - and there is no need to do so.

[BruceMuzz]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If we "followed the science" (to use your words) then there would be absolutely no COVID related limitation of any kind on ships that had a 100% Vaccinated policy.  The reality is that much of what has been done around the world in the past year had very little to do with "science" and a lot more to do with politics.  

 

Do politicians matter?  Consider that here in the USA the Trump Administration implemented Operation Warp Speed around 1 year ago and said that the answer to COVID was to develop and administer vaccines.  Trump was criticized for such a position and many ridiculed him when he promised we would have vaccines by the end of 2020.  So now we fast forward 1 year.  The USA implemented Operation Warp Speed, the Biden Administration doubled down on the program, and the USA is now quickly moving out of the COVID danger zone to a normal life with over half its adult population already vaccinated.  Meanwhile over in Japan, for whatever reason, their leaders did not emphasize any vaccination program (only 2% of their population is vaccinated) and now they are paying a price.  They are suffering a new surge in COVID cases, and unless they keep their people locked down for at least another 6 months they will likely suffer more (and worse) surges.  The only reason half the Japanese population are not now vaccinated is because their political leaders messed up.....big time!

 

Hank

Hank,

The Japanese leaders did, indeed fail to emphasize the vaccination program. They had good reason; the Japanese public is very suspicious of Western vaccines, due to some very big problems they experienced in the past century.

The current vaccination program is now in over-drive. Everyone in Japan will be fully vaccinated by the end of July - something the USA will not be able to do.

 

As far as paying a price with the new surges, let me put it in perspective.

As of today, Japan, with 126 million people, high density populations in all the major cities, and very few vaccinated, has slightly lower numbers on COVID cases and much lower numbers on deaths than the State of Massachusetts. Massachusetts has about 7 million people, many of whom are vaccinated. In the USA today, there are 19 other states with far lower populations than Japan, higher numbers of people vaccinated, and far worse numbers of cases and deaths than Japan. Japan is currently completing our 4th wave of infection; the USA is just beginning their 4th wave.

 

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, BruceMuzz said:

Hank,

The Japanese leaders did, indeed fail to emphasize the vaccination program. They had good reason; the Japanese public is very suspicious of Western vaccines, due to some very big problems they experienced in the past century.

The current vaccination program is now in over-drive. Everyone in Japan will be fully vaccinated by the end of July - something the USA will not be able to do.

 

As far as paying a price with the new surges, let me put it in perspective.

As of today, Japan, with 126 million people, high density populations in all the major cities, and very few vaccinated, has slightly lower numbers on COVID cases and much lower numbers on deaths than the State of Massachusetts. Massachusetts has about 7 million people, many of whom are vaccinated. In the USA today, there are 19 other states with far lower populations than Japan, higher numbers of people vaccinated, and far worse numbers of cases and deaths than Japan. Japan is currently completing our 4th wave of infection; the USA is just beginning their 4th wave.

 

I spent two years of my youth living in Japan and fell in love with the country and people.  I hope you are right about them getting it done by late July.  I guess only time will tell.  As to your comment about a 4th wave in the USA, that is complete baloney.  In the USA we currently have just over 50% of all adults fully vaccinated, many more with one shot, and probably another 20-25% with natural immunity (having had COVID).  A majority of the remaining unvaccinated are not in high risk groups.  While we will continue to have some pockets of COVID, I do not see any chance of a 4th wave (as you put it) since there are not enough folks who can get seriously ill.  

 

As to Japan vaccinating most of their folks (over 100 million) in just 2 months I have my doubts.  They will certainly get it done, but I suspect it will not happen that quickly.  As to their issue with Western vaccines, my information is that the vaccine problems in Japan is simply an issue of a government who has failed their people!  Since face saving is very important in Asia there are going to be many tales and excuses but this is just a government screw up.  Here is a link to an interesting story on the subject:

EXPLAINER: Why Japan has been slow to roll out vaccinations - ABC News (go.com)

 

In Japan, following procedure and rules is ingrained in the culture.  In many cases this does serve the country well, but in this case the delays have cost them valuable time.  Yes, they have done a great job at controlling COVID through lockdowns and severe restrictions, but this comes at a huge price for their economy.    They will bounce back, but the delays will cost them in a big way.  Early in the pandemic we used to hear many officials say, "we must flatten the curve."  One day I said to my DW, "When you flatten a curve you elongate that same curve."  So while you might defer a very nasty situation the price you pay is you will often elongate the overall mess. 

 

Hank

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

You may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have been talking, thinking, and planning for this situation for over a year. My colleagues at some of the better lines have shown me detailed plans for manning levels, operations, booking levels, service levels, etc, based on every permutation of percentage of occupancy.

They are not going to publish this internal information - and there is no need to do so.

 

I would have been surprised if any cruise line has NOT spent most of the past year planning for a return to service. Any cruise line that hasn't, deserves to be out of business. 

 

Our preferred cruise line has been completely open and have published their guidelines for return to service. The initial health & safety policy was published in December and includes daily testing of all crew & pax with an onboard lab. They have also published pax levels, crewing levels, shore-ex bubbles, social distancing guidelines, mask guidelines, implementing MDR reservations, spa reservations, robot cleaners, enhanced Air Handling Units, etc.

 

I would hope the "better cruise lines" have not only completed detailed planning, but also implemented them and are prepared to publish them, so pax know what to expect.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If we "followed the science" (to use your words) then there would be absolutely no COVID related limitation of any kind on ships that had a 100% Vaccinated policy.  The reality is that much of what has been done around the world in the past year had very little to do with "science" and a lot more to do with politics.  

 

Do politicians matter?  Consider that here in the USA the Trump Administration implemented Operation Warp Speed around 1 year ago and said that the answer to COVID was to develop and administer vaccines.  Trump was criticized for such a position and many ridiculed him when he promised we would have vaccines by the end of 2020.  So now we fast forward 1 year.  The USA implemented Operation Warp Speed, the Biden Administration doubled down on the program, and the USA is now quickly moving out of the COVID danger zone to a normal life with over half its adult population already vaccinated.  Meanwhile over in Japan, for whatever reason, their leaders did not emphasize any vaccination program (only 2% of their population is vaccinated) and now they are paying a price.  They are suffering a new surge in COVID cases, and unless they keep their people locked down for at least another 6 months they will likely suffer more (and worse) surges.  The only reason half the Japanese population are not now vaccinated is because their political leaders messed up.....big time!

 

Hank

And those same politicians in Japan are welcoming the influx of foreigners that will happen in the Summer Olympics despite overwhelming opposition from the people of Japan. And I have read that they will reserve hospital space and medical workers for the Olympians. This can only take resources away from any massive vaccination effort.

 

Tokyo Olympics: Japanese Poll Finds 83% Oppose Summer Games - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Edited May 26, 2021 by ontheweb
added link

[c-boy]

  😲 hey look at that ! poll survey used smart phones to collect data from 2k + responses. 

[BruceMuzz]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:03 PM, ontheweb said:

And those same politicians in Japan are welcoming the influx of foreigners that will happen in the Summer Olympics despite overwhelming opposition from the people of Japan. And I have read that they will reserve hospital space and medical workers for the Olympians. This can only take resources away from any massive vaccination effort.

 

Tokyo Olympics: Japanese Poll Finds 83% Oppose Summer Games - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Yes, the ongoing opposition to the Olympics is growing. But then in 1964, there was a similar degree of public opposition to holding the games in Japan, for slightly different reasons. Many Japanese citizens who volunteered to assist at the games have changed their minds and cancelled. 

Medical Care for the Olympians has been shifted to volunteers only, to avoid over-taxing the medical venues.

The Japanese government will vaccinate any athletes who arrive without proof of the vaccine, and will test them every day they are here.

The athletes have been advised that they will not be able to travel away from the Olympic Village - except to perform in the games. Any athlete not conforming to all mask wearing and social distancing rules will be deported immediately.

Doesn’t sound like much fun.

 

Mass vaccination centers have been set up by the SDF (Japanese Army) in all the major cities. Soldiers rather than private doctors are giving the jabs.

I had my first shot last weekend. 

The local government office had mailed me an invitation to make an appointment.

I telephoned and set it up. I walked over to my neighborhood Ward Office.

A Japanese soldier greeted me at the elevator and escorted me through the entire process, explaining the whole thing as it happened. She sat with me for 30 minutes to ensure that I had no immediate negative reactions, then walked me home.

She has telephoned me every day since to ensure that I am OK.

I have a QR code on my smartphone to show to any authority who needs to see proof of my vaccine.

[AKJonesy]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:01 PM, Donald said:

You may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have been talking, thinking, and planning for this situation for over a year. My colleagues at some of the better lines have shown me detailed plans for manning levels, operations, booking levels, service levels, etc, based on every permutation of percentage of occupancy.

They are not going to publish this internal information - and there is no need to do so.

Exactly.  I keep saying "they've got this", so just sit back and relax and enjoy your next cruise.  

[Aquahound]

On 5/24/2021 at 5:13 AM, happy cruzer said:

 There were even mention that inside cabins may not be available.

 

 

I've been comparing all the cruises that just came open for Alaska this year.  All the lines I've looked at (Royal, Celebrity, HAL, Princess, NCL, and Carnival) are selling all categories of rooms, including interiors.  

[happy cruzer]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:17 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

I would have been surprised if any cruise line has NOT spent most of the past year planning for a return to service. Any cruise line that hasn't, deserves to be out of business. 

 

Our preferred cruise line has been completely open and have published their guidelines for return to service. The initial health & safety policy was published in December and includes daily testing of all crew & pax with an onboard lab. They have also published pax levels, crewing levels, shore-ex bubbles, social distancing guidelines, mask guidelines, implementing MDR reservations, spa reservations, robot cleaners, enhanced Air Handling Units, etc.

 

I would hope the "better cruise lines" have not only completed detailed planning, but also implemented them and are prepared to publish them, so pax know what to expect.

All the protocols seem to depend on vaccination levels.  Many of the items are very worthwhile in general to control diseases but are they mandatory once everyone is vaccinated for COVID - just wanting to know how it is all evolving.  Does a line want to commit to some protocol that is later deemed not to be required?

[Heidi13]

46 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

All the protocols seem to depend on vaccination levels.  Many of the items are very worthwhile in general to control diseases but are they mandatory once everyone is vaccinated for COVID - just wanting to know how it is all evolving.  Does a line want to commit to some protocol that is later deemed not to be required?

 

Can only comment on our preferred Line, which is just completing its 2nd cruise post COVID. The original Health & Safety protocols are being maintained, ay this time, even with all crew & pax vaccinated. They don't accept kids <18, so everyone is vaccinated.

 

Will the safety protocols be eased in the future, most likely, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess when that will be.

[Hlitner]

15 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Can only comment on our preferred Line, which is just completing its 2nd cruise post COVID. The original Health & Safety protocols are being maintained, ay this time, even with all crew & pax vaccinated. They don't accept kids <18, so everyone is vaccinated.

 

Will the safety protocols be eased in the future, most likely, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess when that will be.

That is interesting since even the CDC has now taken the position that mask wearing is generally not necessary on ships where everyone is fully vaccinated.   Guess we shall have to wait and see how things "play out" over the next few months as cruisers begin to exercise their "right to whine."

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

That is interesting since even the CDC has now taken the position that mask wearing is generally not necessary on ships where everyone is fully vaccinated.   Guess we shall have to wait and see how things "play out" over the next few months as cruisers begin to exercise their "right to whine."

 

Hank

"even the CDC" -- makes them sound like a malicious bunch of know-nothing troglodytes interested primarily in ruining everyone's fun.  They have simply been doing their job:   keeping as many of us alive as possible.   I have no problem with a vaccination requirement - and if such is in place, I expect the social distancing protocol (capacity limits) will follow its recently departed partner: the mask requirement.

[Hlitner]

29 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

"even the CDC" -- makes them sound like a malicious bunch of know-nothing troglodytes interested primarily in ruining everyone's fun.  They have simply been doing their job:   keeping as many of us alive as possible.   I have no problem with a vaccination requirement - and if such is in place, I expect the social distancing protocol (capacity limits) will follow its recently departed partner: the mask requirement.

I think you and I can agree to disagree on the CDC issue but I do agree with much of your first sentence.

 

Hank

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

That is interesting since even the CDC has now taken the position that mask wearing is generally not necessary on ships where everyone is fully vaccinated.   Guess we shall have to wait and see how things "play out" over the next few months as cruisers begin to exercise their "right to whine."

 

Hank

 

I recall reading that the US CDC had recommended that mask wearing may not be necessary, however that decision isn't consistent with all jurisdictions. In BC, after a slow start with vaccinations, we have now achieved > 72% of adults with the first jab and 70% of 12-18 yr olds. Even with these impressive numbers, the BC CDC still recommends wearing masks and most of our businesses still make them mandatory. The UK, with higher vaccination ratse to both Canada & US also still requires masks in many situations.

 

The US CDC requirements are only applicable to US ports/waters, so are not applicable to our preferred Line, who has no cruises planned for US Waters until at least November. The US CDC requirements are also a minimum stardard, with our preferred Line requiring higher standards in many areas.

 

Once the mega ships resume operations, I agree that it will be very interesting watching the competing interests regarding vaccination status, masks, social distancing, ability to leave the ship, etc.