CDC gives Celebrity the approval to start in June

[CruiserFromMaine]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

That would be a shock!!!  [not]

I had a post to that effect that somehow got lost.  
 

But the governor also said yesterday that Celebrity needs to follow the law. Maybe he meant they could use that last sentence but he didn’t make it  sound that way. 
 

Stay tuned, folks, and fasten your life jacket! 

[Pratique]

3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

So what you're suggesting with regards to paragraph (1) is that, for example, as long as the cruise line just has you sign a legal document stating, in part, that you have been fully vaccinated for at least 2 weeks with an approved COVID vaccine, but without requiring you to show physical proof, the cruise lines should be good to go. 

 

Makes sense. But, in that case I would hope the signed document includes verbiage with regards to who is liable for what if it is later discovered the passenger lied on the signed document about being fully vaccinated.

Yes that seems like a possibility. All I’m saying is that the sentence has a different meaning if the word “otherwise” is deleted.

[cscurlock]

30 minutes ago, CruiserFromMaine said:

I had a post to that effect that somehow got lost.  
 

But the governor also said yesterday that Celebrity needs to follow the law. Maybe he meant they could use that last sentence but he didn’t make it  sound that way. 
 

Stay tuned, folks, and fasten your life jacket! 

It makes you wonder how Celebrity has an port agreement in Everglades when the port and city knows full well they are technically intending to break Florida law with the vaccine requirement as written.  Doesn't that seem odd?    

[D C]

10 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

It makes you wonder how Celebrity has an port agreement in Everglades when the port and city knows full well they are technically intending to break Florida law with the vaccine requirement as written.  Doesn't that seem odd?    

Why would an agreement at the port level care about whether vaccination proof is being requested of passengers? 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by D C

[cscurlock]

6 minutes ago, D C said:

Why would an agreement at the port level care about whether vaccination proof is being requested of passengers? 

 

I would think that knowing they will break Florida law might be an issue.  I understand the law is crap and unconstitutional it just seems weird to me that they would have not put language in the agreement as a requirement knowing what they were planning.  The state just took over local port control in the last bill they passed.  So future negotiations might be different.

Edited May 30, 2021 by cscurlock

[gbphipps]

*IMHO Federal law generally supercedes state law so the Fla governor can pound sand.

[bajathree]

Celebrity has made it very clear they are going to sail. They are telling their travel agents to call their customers and tell them we will be sailing starting June 26 with the Edge requiring proof of vaccination. DeSantis I don't believe knows what to do at this point other than probably hope that the cruise lines find a way to require proof in a way he can't stop....would solve his problem. Celebrity has also said at this time you will need to bring your vaccine card as proof but going forward in the near future they will have a way for you to upload that info....maybe a hint?!?! Also on Friday I listened to DeSantis say he will uphold the law with Celebrity but then said in the next sentence...."who knows maybe they will work it out". It's a game of chicken right now. His popularity right now is dropping with this being on the news every day and he is up for election next year. Last thing he is going to want is to have this tarnishing him...and it already is. If it ends up going to court and he losses he will be finished...they will work it out...my 2 cents.

 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, gbphipps said:

*IMHO Federal law generally supercedes state law so the Fla governor can pound sand.

What would be the actual Federal Statute that is being violated?

 

Hank

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What would be the actual Federal Statute that is being violated?

 

Hank

I think the Florida law also applies to demanding vaccinations from employees, so this is the first Federal supremacy conflict I have found:

WSJ: Employers Can Require Covid-19 Vaccine Under Federal Law, New Guidance States

[cscurlock]

38 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What would be the actual Federal Statute that is being violated?

 

Hank

The commerce clause in the constitution.

[Hlitner]

30 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The commerce clause in the constitution.

I like it :).  That could be a very interesting legal argument.  It sure would not be the first time that clause had been used to keep a State in it's place.

 

Hank

[cscurlock]

29 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I like it :).  That could be a very interesting legal argument.  It sure would not be the first time that clause had been used to keep a State in it's place.

 

Hank

Yeah, there is one exception regarding alcohol I think the the 24th amendment for alcohol sales.  Basically Florida law would apply outside the ship while in port but inside the ship Congress is the only one who can make laws to affect the operations of the vessel unless the safety or the well being of the state is affected.  The vaccination requirement is an internal policy of the ship for boarding and does not fall under the states jurisdiction. The vaccination requirement is not a legal mandate, its a business decision based on the cruise line and the cruise by definition is international commerce which falls under the authority of Congress.  

[Gracie115]

12 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Maybe all of the reporters aren't doing their job and looking into all of the details.

 

Oh my....what a statement....could be said about pretty much any story on any topic everywhere these days........ in depth reporting is very much a thing of the past with the mass media with only VERY rare exception!!!

[CalTexCruiser]

10 hours ago, bajathree said:

Also on Friday I listened to DeSantis say he will uphold the law with Celebrity but then said in the next sentence...."who knows maybe they will work it out". It's a game of chicken right now. His popularity right now is dropping with this being on the news every day and he is up for election next year. Last thing he is going to want is to have this tarnishing him...and it already is. If it ends up going to court and he losses he will be finished...they will work it out...my 2 cents.

 

 

Exactly. I can't imagine this is the hill he wants to die on.

 

I'm not a Floridian and don't know the situation on the ground there, but my guess is that a significant percentage of the voters he is seeking support from are avid cruisers who want to cruise SAFELY, i.e., vaccinated cruises.  I'm sure they would be pretty pissed if he is the one to shut down cruising in Florida.

 

How ironic that the conversation has shifted from blasting the CDC to now blasting him for being the one that is stopping cruising from happening.

[Oville]

48 minutes ago, CalTexCruiser said:

 

Exactly. I can't imagine this is the hill he wants to die on.

 

I'm not a Floridian and don't know the situation on the ground there, but my guess is that a significant percentage of the voters he is seeking support from are avid cruisers who want to cruise SAFELY, i.e., vaccinated cruises.  I'm sure they would be pretty pissed if he is the one to shut down cruising in Florida.

 

How ironic that the conversation has shifted from blasting the CDC to now blasting him for being the one that is stopping cruising from happening.

I am a Floridian and I doubt “a significant percentage of the voters” are cruisers.  We’ve been avid cruisers for years and I can’t name anyone I know who would fall into that category or for that matter have any interest in cruising. I think his bigger concern should be workers associated with the ports and cruise lines.  Also, he just looks bad with his threats of fines.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Oville

[Homosassa]

Maybe a check of the ports of call on Celebrity's itineraries would give a clue to the requirement for vaccination and proof of vaccination.

 

For example, I am booked on another cruise line and two of are ports of call are Nassau and the private island which is also on the Bahamas.

 

When a check is made of the Bahamian government website for Covid 19 requirements, there is a health visa that is required for all visitors. Depending on vaccination status, the requirements are very different.

 

If vaccination is claimed, a proof of vaccination (for US citizens the CDC card is the only allowable proof) and it must be carried with the tourist.

 

A cruise line would therefore be obliged to know the vaccination status of the passengers (health visa requirements must be electronically filed at least 48 hours before arrival in the Bahamas) and check for the appropriate documentation at embarkation.

 

It wouldn't matter what temper tantrums are done on the Florida state level, the cruise line would be following  the public health mandates of a sovereign nation and therefore fall under the loophole language in both the Executive Order and Florida law.

[Ken the cruiser]

4 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Maybe a check of the ports of call on Celebrity's itineraries would give a clue to the requirement for vaccination and proof of vaccination.

 

For example, I am booked on another cruise line and two of are ports of call are Nassau and the private island which is also on the Bahamas.

 

When a check is made of the Bahamian government website for Covid 19 requirements, there is a health visa that is required for all visitors. Depending on vaccination status, the requirements are very different.

 

If vaccination is claimed, a proof of vaccination (for US citizens the CDC card is the only allowable proof) and it must be carried with the tourist.

 

A cruise line would therefore be obliged to know the vaccination status of the passengers (health visa requirements must be electronically filed at least 48 hours before arrival in the Bahamas) and check for the appropriate documentation at embarkation.

 

It wouldn't matter what temper tantrums are done on the Florida state level, the cruise line would be following  the public health mandates of a sovereign nation and therefore fall under the loophole language in both the Executive Order and Florida law.

St Maarten is also considering a fully vaccinated option which both the Edge and Equinox visit on some of their start-up cruises in July and August.

 

The Daily Herald - Ottley: Fully vaccinated visitors may be exempted from testing

 

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

St Maarten is also considering a fully vaccinated option which both the Edge and Equinox visit on some of their start-up cruises in July and August.

 

The Daily Herald - Ottley: Fully vaccinated visitors may be exempted from testing

 

Yes, that is why ports of call may be important.

 

To go further with the Bahamas example, for non-vaccinated visitors, a PCR antigen test must be done no more than five days before entry into the Bahamas. The test result (must be negative for clearance) must be uploaded no less than 48 hours before arrival.

 

As the itinerary I am on is a seven day cruise and has arrival  has arrival in the Bahamas on  day five, it causes logistical problems for non-vaccinated passengers to obtain a PCR antigen test five days before arrival and uploading the results 48 hours ahead of arrival.

 

I also can't see a cruise line not checking Covid 19 status before departure which means for non-vaccinated passengers the double whammy of the cruise line requirement of negative Covid 19 test results before arrival at the departure port, and then worrying about providing another test for the passengers to meet the port entry requirements.

 

A three or four day itinerary gives the time to meet the reporting requirements before departure.

 

[wrk2cruise]

Has Celebrity stated that you will need to meet the covid entry requirements for each country on the itinerary including testing, health visas, fees etc?  Generally doesn't the cruise line have agreements for a day stop?   I'm asking a serious question.   I fully support vaccinated cruises and want Celebrity to verify passengers vaccine status.

 

I'm aware they are stating that the rules of the country will be provided once onboard in regards to mask and distancing and independent excursions.

[Homosassa]

I looked at the Celebrity June 26 sailing.

 

There is a stop in the Bahamas on day six of the cruise.

 

Read my post 116 and 118 for what this means.

[D C]

2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Maybe a check of the ports of call on Celebrity's itineraries would give a clue to the requirement for vaccination and proof of vaccination.

 

For example, I am booked on another cruise line and two of are ports of call are Nassau and the private island which is also on the Bahamas.

 

When a check is made of the Bahamian government website for Covid 19 requirements, there is a health visa that is required for all visitors. Depending on vaccination status, the requirements are very different.

 

If vaccination is claimed, a proof of vaccination (for US citizens the CDC card is the only allowable proof) and it must be carried with the tourist.

 

A cruise line would therefore be obliged to know the vaccination status of the passengers (health visa requirements must be electronically filed at least 48 hours before arrival in the Bahamas) and check for the appropriate documentation at embarkation.

 

It wouldn't matter what temper tantrums are done on the Florida state level, the cruise line would be following  the public health mandates of a sovereign nation and therefore fall under the loophole language in both the Executive Order and Florida law.

Is someone who does not disembark still considered a visitor?  

[d9704011]

1 minute ago, D C said:

Is someone who does not disembark still considered a visitor?  

Of course.  Every passenger on the ship is likely a visitor... I suppose those traveling with Bahamian passports would be considered differently but suspect there’ll be few of them.

[D C]

7 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Of course.  Every passenger on the ship is likely a visitor... I suppose those traveling with Bahamian passports would be considered differently but suspect there’ll be few of them.

It depends entirely where the point of entry is located.  I doubt that anyone who does not disembark would be required to show proof of vaccination as the point of entry is most likely on land.  

[d9704011]

59 minutes ago, D C said:

It depends entirely where the point of entry is located.  I doubt that anyone who does not disembark would be required to show proof of vaccination as the point of entry is most likely on land.  

Why wouldn’t the ‘point of entry’ be when the ship enters Bahamian waters with the intent of anchoring or going to the dock to let people (anyone) go ashore?  

[Babr]

If I remember correctly, people without proper documentation of yellow fever vaccines were denied boarding for an Amazon cruise because the ship could not enter the ports if everyone did not meet the requirement. In other words, they could not just go along for the ride and stay on the ship. Perhaps someone with more recent experience can clarify.

 

So everyone on the ship is a visitor, but we know the rules are still evolving in the current situation.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Babr