Could a CDC change to pre-cruise testing requirements be coming soon?

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, mics pics said:

Exactly. At my workplace, every employee is vaccinated. I am boosted. We currently have an outbreak of Covid among us because of the busy summer travel season. It is a mild outbreak with people only fee!ing bad for a few days compared to what we (as a workgroup) went through in early 2020. 

 

I still have not officially tested positive in the past two years although I'm quite sure I've had to have had it at some point since coworkers and husband have both tested positive for it. That to me is proof that vaccines do their job. 

The problem for cruisers is that even if you get a very mild or asymptomatic case of COVID (and it is detected) you will likely be quarantined for a week!  That is a bummer when on any vacation.

 

Hank

[mics pics]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The problem for cruisers is that even if you get a very mild or asymptomatic case of COVID (and it is detected) you will likely be quarantined for a week!  That is a bummer when on any vacation.

 

Hank

Very good point, and definitely one I am concerned about.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, mics pics said:

Very good point, and definitely one I am concerned about.

We posted elsewhere the situation that can happen with or without testing.  In late March we took a 27 day Seabourn cruise from Miami to Lisbon and then on to Monte Carlo.  Until about a week before our voyage Seabourn required folks get a negative test within 2 days of the cruise and then get another test done at embarkation.  But a few days before our cruise the cruise line decided to eliminate that embarkation test.  So we had about 500 passengers (and 360 crew) with nobody being tested at embarkation.  During the cruise we had quite a few COVID cases (among passengers and crew) and all those folks were immediately put into quarantine (in a suite) for 7 days.  Lots of folks disappeared for 7 days :(.  Those that got infected within a few days of arriving in Lisbon were disembarked (apparently this was a requirement of Portugal) and continued their quarantine at a Lisbon hotel.  The ones that were booked on the following cruise (14 days from Lisbon to Monte Carlo) were not permitted to continue on the cruise.  

 

Of course the unanswered question is whether testing at embarkation would have caught the positive cases that came aboard...and this is something we will never know.

 

But there is an ugly truth.  Being vaccinated and boosted (even with 2 boosters) does not prevent one from getting the Omicron variant (if you doubt this just ask Dr. Fauci).  And even those who are fully vaccinated/boosted and wear masks (even 2 masks) also get Omicron (just ask Dr. Fauci).  These are just the facts of life in this COVID era.  When folks have asked DW and I how we have somehow managed to extensively travel and cruise for the past year without getting Omicron (although one can never be sure) are simple response is "luck."  We never wore masks (unless it was required) and did not concern ourselves with social distancing...figuring if we get it we get it.  So far that strategy has worked for us while most of our friends who have been very cautious have had Covid at least once (some have had it multiple times).  I have sometime joked that perhaps COVID anxiety makes one more susceptible to the virus and those of us who simply go on with our lives seem to do fine.

 

Hank

[SargassoPirate]

Hank,

 

I wonder if any of those folks you described as being quarantined and kicked off the ship were even sick?

 

 

IMHO, it's time to quit focusing on testing for a virus that is here to stay and focus on personal responsibility for protecting yourself if you are vulnerable and focusing on those who are actually sick with the therapeutics available.

 

I think the cruise lines are moving in that direction but are scared to death of the media.  Michael Bayley has been quoted that RCI has carried milllions of passengers since the restart and two of those died from covid.

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We posted elsewhere the situation that can happen with or without testing.  In late March we took a 27 day Seabourn cruise from Miami to Lisbon and then on to Monte Carlo.  Until about a week before our voyage Seabourn required folks get a negative test within 2 days of the cruise and then get another test done at embarkation.  But a few days before our cruise the cruise line decided to eliminate that embarkation test.  So we had about 500 passengers (and 360 crew) with nobody being tested at embarkation.  During the cruise we had quite a few COVID cases (among passengers and crew) and all those folks were immediately put into quarantine (in a suite) for 7 days.  Lots of folks disappeared for 7 days :(.  Those that got infected within a few days of arriving in Lisbon were disembarked (apparently this was a requirement of Portugal) and continued their quarantine at a Lisbon hotel.  The ones that were booked on the following cruise (14 days from Lisbon to Monte Carlo) were not permitted to continue on the cruise.  

 

Of course the unanswered question is whether testing at embarkation would have caught the positive cases that came aboard...and this is something we will never know.

 

But there is an ugly truth.  Being vaccinated and boosted (even with 2 boosters) does not prevent one from getting the Omicron variant (if you doubt this just ask Dr. Fauci).  And even those who are fully vaccinated/boosted and wear masks (even 2 masks) also get Omicron (just ask Dr. Fauci).  These are just the facts of life in this COVID era.  When folks have asked DW and I how we have somehow managed to extensively travel and cruise for the past year without getting Omicron (although one can never be sure) are simple response is "luck."  We never wore masks (unless it was required) and did not concern ourselves with social distancing...figuring if we get it we get it.  So far that strategy has worked for us while most of our friends who have been very cautious have had Covid at least once (some have had it multiple times).  I have sometime joked that perhaps COVID anxiety makes one more susceptible to the virus and those of us who simply go on with our lives seem to do fine.

 

Hank

I think there is something to be said for getting a little exposure in small doses over time  boosting ones immunity. Kids who play in the dirt once in a while seem to remain healthier than those who live in sanitized households.

[Hlitner]

40 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Hank,

 

I wonder if any of those folks you described as being quarantined and kicked off the ship were even sick?

 

 

IMHO, it's time to quit focusing on testing for a virus that is here to stay and focus on personal responsibility for protecting yourself if you are vulnerable and focusing on those who are actually sick with the therapeutics available.

 

I think the cruise lines are moving in that direction but are scared to death of the media.  Michael Bayley has been quoted that RCI has carried milllions of passengers since the restart and two of those died from covid.

One couple we knew (we sat next to them nearly every evening in the Observation Bar) both got sick with some mild symptoms.  They went to the Doctor, were tasted, and quarantined.  Since they were not put into quarantine until about 4 days before Lisbon, they were required to leave the ship and finish up at the Intercontinental.  They were supposed to be on the next cruise (along with us) but could not finish their quarantine in time.  But the punch line to the story is that couple had primarily booked the entire 27 day cruise for two ports, Casablanca and Tangier.  A few days before they got COVID we learned that Seabourn had quietly changed the itinerary (without officially telling those of us aboard) and eliminated both of the ports in Morocco.  To this day, SB has never given us an explanation for the port change.  Unofficially we heard that Morocco was insistent that all the cruise passengers had to have negative PCR tests prior to arriving at their ports and that SB was not equipped to handle PCR tests.

 

We have cruised 48 days (on Seabourn and Princess) since last August.  The attitude of these cruise lines was to keep passengers ignorant of the COVID situation onboard as well as the situation with scheduled ports.  In most cases we would not find out about the ports until 1 or 2 days prior to our arrival.   We have met quite a few fellow passengers who admitted to having anxiety issues because of their fear of COVID.  A few couples on our Seabourn Ovation cruise stayed to themselves, spent most of their time in their suites, and when we saw them on deck they would sit far from anyone.  We happened to meet one of these couples (they were probably in their early 40s) in the Restaurant one evening when they were at the next table.  They told us of their outrage that not everyone wore masks all over the ship and said they were avoiding all socialization to maintain social distancing.  These folks were obviously living in constant fear and DW and I both felt a little sorry for them since they seemed like very nice folks whose company we would have enjoyed at our nightly time in the Observation Bar.  And yes, they told us they would only go to the outdoor bar (near the pool) since they were concerned about being at an indoor bar where nobody was wearing masks.

 

The thing about COVID is that many folks have created their own COVID prison and have so-far served more than a 2 year sentence.  We have some very good friends who have fallen into this COVID prison and they have had all kinds of mental problems trying to escape.  They have tried several trips and cut all of them short because of their own anxiety related to COVID phobia.  They plan on joining us in Mexico next winter and we shall see if they can get past that fear...since COVID will be with us next winter and likely forever.

 

Hank

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have cruised 48 days (on Seabourn and Princess) since last August.  The attitude of these cruise lines was to keep passengers ignorant of the COVID situation onboard as well as the situation with scheduled ports

I respect the cruise line’s right to keep private that which is private.  They are following the law as regards to reporting to the CDC (or similar agencies elsewhere). FOIAs are an option for those bent on getting the information but I would suggest anyone that interested may be best doing something else with their leisure times.  
 

As to port changes, I have had similar port changes and I simply go to the said government’s website and read the updates.  Many governments have chosen to not have steadfast rules but are using rapidly changing updates to manage to balance between Covid cases and their fragile economies.  I chalk that up to low vaccination rates or those using a lesser vaccine than the ones widely available in the western world.  The Chinese insist upon using their own vaccine and due to its poor results have announced that they expect to continue their rolling lockdowns until at least 2027.  

Edited July 4, 2022 by Mary229

[Ashley321]

I just read that Australia soon will drop all covid restrictions for international travellers (no vax, testing) and this also applies to those traveling by sea. I have to think that would include cruise ships?? Anyone hear about this?

[Markanddonna]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The thing about COVID is that many folks have created their own COVID prison and have so-far served more than a 2 year sentence.  We have some very good friends who have fallen into this COVID prison and they have had all kinds of mental problems trying to escape.  

Hank said it well. These folks aren't following logic, recent experiences or the science. I have a niece who is demanding all people at her fall wedding be vaccinated. )Honey, unvaxxed people aren't any more likely to give you COVID.)  

The anxiety that some people are putting on their children and families is unreal. I hope as the weeks go on that they will be in the minority and not dictate to or impose their demands on others. They need to turn to a different TV station!

 

Look at our military that can't recruit enough soldiers and are punishing those healthy young people who are the least likely to become ill. I've noticed some European countries just shed the crazy thinking very quickly and have moved on. The Spanish flu from the early 1900s keeps popping up on occasion. We just have to learn to go about life sensibly.

[lissie]

9 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Hank,

 

I wonder if any of those folks you described as being quarantined and kicked off the ship were even sick?

 

Doesn't matter if they had symptoms or not - they were infected and therefore infectious to others. This is not just about the patient its about the effect that person has on others. 

[lissie]

2 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

Hank said it well. These folks aren't following logic, recent experiences or the science. I have a niece who is demanding all people at her fall wedding be vaccinated. )Honey, unvaxxed people aren't any more likely to give you COVID.)  

The anxiety that some people are putting on their children and families is unreal. I hope as the weeks go on that they will be in the minority and not dictate to or impose their demands on others. They need to turn to a different TV station!

 

Look at our military that can't recruit enough soldiers and are punishing those healthy young people who are the least likely to become ill. I've noticed some European countries just shed the crazy thinking very quickly and have moved on. The Spanish flu from the early 1900s keeps popping up on occasion. We just have to learn to go about life sensibly.

Good on our niece . And yes you are more likely to get it from unvaxxed people than vaxxed because they are more likely to be infected!  

 

There are people who  seem to have overally concerned about getting ill.  And I know some who are amazed that my vulnerable (older heart issues) partner and I are not just cruising but doing the even riskier thing of spending 10 days pre cruise in the USA!  And then we are going to eastern Europe so then they think we will be  killed by the Russians! But there have always been people like that - I've travelled my whole life and there is always something to be scared of.  

 

But we are still in the midst of a pandemic and we are both quietly relieved to have had Covid in May - just slightly gutted to not know which variant it was so don't know where we stand with Omicron 5 . If we can find a place that will give us an updated vaccine while we're travelling - we'll be very happy to pay for it. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by lissie

[Tonsoffun44]

17 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Hank,

 

I wonder if any of those folks you described as being quarantined and kicked off the ship were even sick?

Exactly - unless showing symptoms were they tested more than once - know plenty of people that tested somewhere and it was Positive but the next day tested somewhere else and it was Negative. So many false positives and negatives since testing began for one reason or another. 

Would be really ticked to get kicked off a cruise due to false test result because they only test once to make the decision. 

[Hlitner]

6 minutes ago, Tonsoffun44 said:

Exactly - unless showing symptoms were they tested more than once - know plenty of people that tested somewhere and it was Positive but the next day tested somewhere else and it was Negative. So many false positives and negatives since testing began for one reason or another. 

Would be really ticked to get kicked off a cruise due to false test result because they only test once to make the decision. 

As I said, there was no routine testing of anyone until a day before we reached Lisbon.  So one would assume that nobody went to the doctor (to be tested) unless they had some symptoms that caused them a lot of concern.  We do not know if there were other asymptomatic cases discovered when they did the mandatory testing (prior to Lisbon).  On the following 14 day cruise (Lisbon to Monte Carlo) there was no mandatory testing onboard...even at the end of the cruise prior to disembarkation.  When we arrived at Monte Carlo we could just walk off the ship (the gang plank went directing to the pier (not a terminal) where there was no testing, Passport Control (which later caused us a problem in Munich) and our pre-ordered car/driver was waiting on the pier.  The ship had offloaded our luggage and just piled it up on the pier (where it got wet in the rain).  So we just walked off the ship, found our car, and than grabbed our luggage and wheeled it over to the car.  

 

The follow-up issue happened 3 weeks later when we were flying home from Prague to Newark.  Our first flight was a commuter jet from Prague to Munich where the German rules require everyone (in transit) to go through a quick Passport check.  The German Immigration Officer noted that we had no EU entry stamp in our Passports which meant we were illegally in the EU.  He demanded an explanation (which we provided along with supporting documents) and he was not very happy.  His partner (in the same booth) smoothed over the situation and they both just waved us on our way.   They were both surprised that Monoco let cruise ship passengers enter the EU with no checks.   As we have often posted, the travel world (post COVID) is a real mess with constantly changing rules.  Folks need to be patient, keep a smile on their face, and work with the system.

 

Hank

[SargassoPirate]

9 hours ago, lissie said:

Doesn't matter if they had symptoms or not - they were infected and therefore infectious to others. This is not just about the patient its about the effect that person has on others. 

 

You do realize that if you are worried about catching covid, you should take steps to protect yourself?  Don't expect anyone to do anything to protect others.  The virus is here to stay and with vaccines and therapeutics, and with the variants mutating into more easily spread but less lethal forms, there is no reason not to get on with life.

 

If you go through life expecting others to wear a mask, you will be continually disappointed.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by SargassoPirate

[PacnGoNow]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

As I said, there was no routine testing of anyone until a day before we reached Lisbon.  So one would assume that nobody went to the doctor (to be tested) unless they had some symptoms that caused them a lot of concern.  We do not know if there were other asymptomatic cases discovered when they did the mandatory testing (prior to Lisbon).  On the following 14 day cruise (Lisbon to Monte Carlo) there was no mandatory testing onboard...even at the end of the cruise prior to disembarkation.  When we arrived at Monte Carlo we could just walk off the ship (the gang plank went directing to the pier (not a terminal) where there was no testing, Passport Control (which later caused us a problem in Munich) and our pre-ordered car/driver was waiting on the pier.  The ship had offloaded our luggage and just piled it up on the pier (where it got wet in the rain).  So we just walked off the ship, found our car, and than grabbed our luggage and wheeled it over to the car.  

 

The follow-up issue happened 3 weeks later when we were flying home from Prague to Newark.  Our first flight was a commuter jet from Prague to Munich where the German rules require everyone (in transit) to go through a quick Passport check.  The German Immigration Officer noted that we had no EU entry stamp in our Passports which meant we were illegally in the EU.  He demanded an explanation (which we provided along with supporting documents) and he was not very happy.  His partner (in the same booth) smoothed over the situation and they both just waved us on our way.   They were both surprised that Monoco let cruise ship passengers enter the EU with no checks.   As we have often posted, the travel world (post COVID) is a real mess with constantly changing rules.  Folks need to be patient, keep a smile on their face, and work with the system.

 

Hank

Probably because Monaco is not part of the EU.  They do follow the policies however of the EU.  Well, their supposed to anyway.  Maybe an employee shortage on the pier?  😂  

This would be a good thing to report to the cruiseline.  Was it PCL?  I wasn’t aware you could disembark there.

[Tonsoffun44]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As I said, there was no routine testing of anyone until a day before we reached Lisbon.  So one would assume that nobody went to the doctor (to be tested) unless they had some symptoms that caused them a lot of concern.  We do not know if there were other asymptomatic cases discovered when they did the mandatory testing (prior to Lisbon). 

My point was - Those who were given the boot from the ship should have been tested more than once before being given the boot to prove they were positive - one single test isn't 100% accurate. Nothing more. 

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, Tonsoffun44 said:

My point was - Those who were given the boot from the ship should have been tested more than once before being given the boot to prove they were positive - one single test isn't 100% accurate. Nothing more. 

Basically, you are saying common sense should rule instead of hysteria.

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Basically, you are saying common sense should rule instead of hysteria.

 

Common sense is not so common anymore.

[Tonsoffun44]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Basically, you are saying common sense should rule instead of hysteria.

exactly - but of course that probably won't happen if the CDC/government officials/cruise line officials don't get some common sense of their own. 

[jollyjones]

15 hours ago, Tonsoffun44 said:

My point was - Those who were given the boot from the ship should have been tested more than once before being given the boot to prove they were positive - one single test isn't 100% accurate. Nothing more. 

 

Are you sure they weren't? Above it just says 'tested'.

When I tested positive on board by antigen test, the result was checked by an immediate PCR done on the ship. 

I was asymptomatic, the test was required the day before Lisbon arrival because I was continuing on to the next cruise B2B so I was considered by Lisbon rules to be 'embarking' on a new cruise. Then I was disembarked and spent the required time in hotel quarantine in Lisbon.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by jollyjones

[CruiserBruce]

14 minutes ago, jollyjones said:

 

Are you sure they weren't? Above it just says 'tested'.

When I tested positive on board by antigen test, the result was checked by an immediate PCR done on the ship. 

 

And this has been the standard policy as far as I know. I think the "one test and kicked off" is just not knowing the facts at best, and perhaps putting an agenda unsupported by the facts.

 

Many cruise lines have been quarantining people who test positive on board, at least until the end of their scheduled cruise.

[Tonsoffun44]

31 minutes ago, jollyjones said:

 

Are you sure they weren't? Above it just says 'tested'.

When I tested positive on board by antigen test, the result was checked by an immediate PCR done on the ship. (This was SS, not SB).

I was asymptomatic, the test was required the day before Lisbon arrival because I was continuing on to the next cruise B2B so I was considered by Lisbon rules to be 'embarking' on a new cruise. Then I was disembarked and spent the required time in hotel quarantine in Lisbon.

 

No idea as said in post #62 "unless showing symptoms were they tested more than once". Purely based off "tested" as said above just highly doubt multiple tests were done unless they were all rapid tests which aren't the most accurate. Not to mention test negative day before Lisbon doesn't mean you're automatically still negative for day OF Lisbon yet allowed to continue if negative. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Tonsoffun44

[SargassoPirate]

28 minutes ago, jollyjones said:

 

Are you sure they weren't? Above it just says 'tested'.

When I tested positive on board by antigen test, the result was checked by an immediate PCR done on the ship. 

I was asymptomatic, the test was required the day before Lisbon arrival because I was continuing on to the next cruise B2B so I was considered by Lisbon rules to be 'embarking' on a new cruise. Then I was disembarked and spent the required time in hotel quarantine in Lisbon.

 

 

Were you ever actually sick?

 

I'm sticking to my assertion that it's time to move past wholesale testing of people who are not sick and to concentrate on those who are actually sick.

 

[jollyjones]

50 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Were you ever actually sick?

 

I'm sticking to my assertion that it's time to move past wholesale testing of people who are not sick and to concentrate on those who are actually sick.

 

 

The question of wholesale testing is not what I was talking about.

 

I was posting in regard to the 'test once' issue because it was raised here - it was implied that pax were treated as definitely positive on the basis of only one test - all I was saying is that a positive antigen test, in my experience, was confirmed by a second, more accurate, PCR test. 

While no test is 100% accurate, having a positive antigen test followed by a positive PCR test is a reasonable basis for diagnosing a Covid infection.

 

I can only speak for my own experience, but I'd be surprised if pax were disembarked after a positive antigen test without a second confirmatory test.

 

I am not talking about the whole big issue of testing all cruise pax, whether they should be allowed to sail, etc. etc. etc.

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Were you ever actually sick?

 

I'm sticking to my assertion that it's time to move past wholesale testing of people who are not sick and to concentrate on those who are actually sick.

 

OMG, common sense! 🤣