Alaska Glaciers Cruise - the cruise skipped the glacier

[rodiond]

We've been sailing on a 7-day Alaska Glacier Cruise with Royal Caribbean and there was a medical emergency when the ship was sailing from Skagway to the main attraction of the cruise - Dawes Glacier (somebody on the ship fell really badly). For some reason the crew decided to rush the whole ship to the nearest port (Juneau) instead of sending a helicopter or an emergency boat. As a result, they announced that we had to skip the glacier.

Royal Caribbean refused to compensate us for this change of plans because it was a medical emergency. So my question is - is this normal?
I would expect the likelihood of this kind of an emergency to be pretty high for a 5000 person cruise so they must plan for it. Is there a way to get some kind of compensation?

 

Thank you! 

[Aquahound]

7 minutes ago, rodiond said:

For some reason the crew decided to rush the whole ship to the nearest port (Juneau) instead of sending a helicopter or an emergency boat. As a result, they announced that we had to skip the glacier.

 

Perhaps it'll help to know the bigger picture.  Don't be so quick to blame the ship.  A flight surgeon is consulted in these incidents.  If a helicopter or boat wasn't sent, it was most likely the Coast Guard's call, not the ship's.  In many ways, medevac via helo or boat can make things worse.  High blood pressure, for example, is a disqualifier for helo medevac.  

Edited July 23, 2022 by Aquahound

[njhorseman]

7 minutes ago, rodiond said:

Is there a way to get some kind of compensation?

If you read cruise lines' ticket contracts you'll see that they have the right to change the itinerary . They're under no obligation to to compensate the passengers for an itinerary change but sometimes the cruise line will  do so a matter of passenger goodwill by providing a small onboard credit or a small credit that can be used towards a future cruise.

[wcook]

Apparently landing a helicopter on a ship at sea is much riskier than teevee would have us believe. 
 

Missing a glacier day seems to come up a few times each season. Legally, you are entitled to nothing. If you ask, you might get some symbolic comp, but don’t get your hopes up.  And yes, missing glacier day sucks and no compensation sucks. 

[rodiond]

Thank you for the information. I understand that this was probably not their call. But missing the glacier in a cruise called "Glacier Cruise" is kind of a disappointment to put it mildly 🙂.
I am also surprised they didn't decide to change the itinerary for the rest of the cruise to make sure the glacier is covered. Anyway, if that's normal, I'd probably stay away from cruising since a trip can get affected so unpredictably.

Edited July 23, 2022 by rodiond

[cruisemom42]

It's my understanding that in the UK they have greater consumer protections in situations like this one. If a cruise (or tour) substantially changes -- for any reason -- from what is described and what the consumer paid for, compensation must be provided. There are certain guidelines, but I know this has come up on these forums before in the context of cruises changing entire itineraries at the last minute (e.g., from a "Holy Lands" cruise to a "Greek Islands" cruise that normally sells for a much lesser per diem). 

 

Somehow in the US cruise lines get away with saying that if the embarkation and disembarkation ports don't change, and they offer you the agreed-upon number of days, they are doing all that they "guaranteed" you.

 

[donaldsc]

3 minutes ago, rodiond said:

Thank you for the information. I understand that this was probably not their call. But missing the glacier in a cruise that called a "Glacier Cruise" is kind of a disappointment to put it mildly 🙂.
I am also surprised they didn't decide to change the itinerary for the rest of the cruise to make sure the glacier is covered. Anyway, if that's normal, I'd probably stay away from cruising since a trip can get affected so unpredictably.

 

There are land trips that can get you close to or even on glacier but most of them are DIY trips.  You just have to do a bit of work to set them up.  If you want to see a glacier w/o any effort on your part a cruise is your only option.  Also you have to accept that on any cruise the cruise line has the right to make any changes to the itinerary and essentially anything else that they feel are necessary without any expectation of compensation to you.  That is just the way it is.

 

I obviously don't have any numbers but almost all of the cruises are completed w/o problems.  If you can't accept that just don't cruise.

 

DON

[John Bull]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

It's my understanding that in the UK they have greater consumer protections in situations like this one. If a cruise (or tour) substantially changes -- for any reason -- from what is described and what the consumer paid for, compensation must be provided. There are certain guidelines, but I know this has come up on these forums before in the context of cruises changing entire itineraries at the last minute (e.g., from a "Holy Lands" cruise to a "Greek Islands" cruise that normally sells for a much lesser per diem). 

 

 

Very unlikely mum, because altho certainly consumer rights are much greater for those who book from the UK or EU than for those who book from the US of A, they don't extend to circumstances beyond the control of the cruise line.

 

So for instance, if a cruiseline cancels in order to switch to a more-lucrative charter of the entire ship (I hear that happens in the US from time to time), or foreshortens a cruise to bring forward an upcoming dry-dock booking (happened to a NCL cruise), or due to a mechanical issue or industrial action by the crew, those things are the responsibility of the cruiseline, and under UK or EU law they are obliged to compensate. 

 

But cancellations due to sea conditions, civil unrest, industrial action by port workers, pandemics etc, are outside the cruiseline's control and there's no obligation to compensate - passengers need to check their travel insurance to see if they're covered.

Same as if the ship diverts to go to the aid of another vessel, under the convention of SOLAS - I'll hazard a guess that includes the welfare of one of the ship's own sick or injured passengers or crew, no doubt Cheng will tell me if I've got that wrong 😉

 

JB 🙂

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, John Bull said:

 

But cancellations due to sea conditions, civil unrest, industrial action by port workers, pandemics etc, are outside the cruiseline's control and there's no obligation to compensate - passengers need to check their travel insurance to see if they're covered.

Same as if the ship diverts to go to the aid of another vessel, under the convention of SOLAS - I'll hazard a guess that includes the welfare of one of the ship's own sick or injured passengers or crew, no doubt Cheng will tell me if I've got that wrong 😉

 

JB 🙂

 

In the example I'm thinking of, Celebrity changed a cruise at the last minute from Holy Lands to one that was strictly "Greek Isles" with nothing about it that would merit the original name and booking fees. Perhaps the difference was that Celebrity made the change out of "caution" but there was no actual guidance from the relevant State Departments/Foreign Travel Office?  

 

At any rate, British passengers were able to successfully claim the offered cruise did not fulfill the contract while US passengers had nothing to stand on.

 

Celebrity eventually (after several fraught passenger meetings) did the right thing and offered some substantial refund or future credit, IIRC, to all passengers.

[jsn55]

Travel can be fraught with challenges and sometimes you just are unlucky.  Not as unlucky as the person who fell, but your experience is one of those things that happens occasionally.  On our first night in Paris six years ago, my husband fell and broke his hip.  That was the end of the trip.  It's a durn shame, but travel can be a little risky.  I'm surprised that RCCL didn't at least extend some kind of a good-will gesture, but on a ship that size, they may think that it would be too expensive.

[LHT28]

Changing the itinerary   just because  is one thing  having a medical emergency onboard  where they need to get the PAX to a port with medical services is another

Just think if it was your loved one in medical distress would you give a hoot if  the glaciers were skipped or not 

 

 

[mom says]

Having been a flight nurse in my (much) younger days, I can say that there are any number of reasons why the patient wasn't evacuated by the Coast Guard helo or boat, and the ship had to divert instead. Which meant missing the current day's plan. Trying to repeat that plan the next day would cause a ripple effect all the way through  the rest of the itinerary. In most cases it just wouldn't be practical, or even possible, given their other ports of call, and sail times required between ports

 

Have got to say that complaining about one lost day because of a medical emergency rates as pretty low. I'm assuming that patient wasn't one of your loved ones. How is that person anyway? The Captain sometimes give a short report on their condition later on.

 

Before you take your next cruise, or land tour, or vacation package, I suggest you read the T&Cs in the contract. See what they have to say about itinerary changes. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

Mostly for folks newer to cruising: The term “medevac” can be a bit misleading - particularly in terms of travel insurance. When it comes to helicopter or fast boat transportation of an ill passenger or crew from a ship, the more accurate term is “field rescue.” And, in most countries worldwide, field rescue is provided by the “local” Coast Guard at no cost to the passenger.  That said, the insurance world considers MedEvac primarily as transportation from the first shoreside emergency/acute care facility to a more appropriate hospital and/or to home.

[wcook]

5 hours ago, rodiond said:

I am also surprised they didn't decide to change the itinerary for the rest of the cruise to make sure the glacier is covered.

I totally agree with you here. There was another situation this year with a ship having engine problems - it couldn’t maintain proper speed. The line (RCI?) choose to skip a glacier viewing day rather than a port day. I suspect 90%+ of passengers would have preferred to skip a port. 
 

Edited July 24, 2022 by wcook

[Flatbush Flyer]

38 minutes ago, wcook said:

I totally agree with you here. There was another situation this year with a ship having engine problems - it couldn’t maintain proper speed. The line (RCI?) choose to skip a glacier viewing day rather than a port day. I suspect 90%+ of passengers would have preferred to skip a port. 
 

Changing an itinerary is not as easy as you may think. Port schedules are complex affairs (for the ports themselves as much as, if not more than, for the cruise lines). 

I had to chuckle at your example. “Up close and personal” with a glacier while experiencing  engine problems? Trying it “tomorrow vs today”? Not a very good idea. And don’t forget that other ships may already occupy the  “tomorrow” spot for “glacier day.”

[bonsai3s]

7 hours ago, rodiond said:

We've been sailing on a 7-day Alaska Glacier Cruise with Royal Caribbean and there was a medical emergency when the ship was sailing from Skagway to the main attraction of the cruise - Dawes Glacier (somebody on the ship fell really badly). For some reason the crew decided to rush the whole ship to the nearest port (Juneau) instead of sending a helicopter or an emergency boat. As a result, they announced that we had to skip the glacier.

Royal Caribbean refused to compensate us for this change of plans because it was a medical emergency. So my question is - is this normal?
I would expect the likelihood of this kind of an emergency to be pretty high for a 5000 person cruise so they must plan for it. Is there a way to get some kind of compensation?

 

Thank you! 

You may want to post this on the Royal Caribbean thread.

[rodiond]

Thanks a lot for all the responses.

Just to clarify, I don't "complain" about diverting the ship for medical emergency - it's totally understandable. It's more about the companies handling of the situation.

Also, since it's my first cruise, I was a little surprised that a medical emergency creates a force majeure type of situation. I would assume that medical emergencies happen quite often on cruises (especially given how drunk everyone is) and they should be planned for.

[MBP&O2/O]

My experience of working with helicopters from a ship is limited but I have done it and it is fraught with danger.

 

You need plenty of sea room / no other traffic nearby / no land / suitable weather etc. etc.

 

You have to steer have to maintain a course some 15/20 degrees off the wind so as the pilot can see the deck as he approached the ship whilst he has to maintain a course into the wind, excellent communication is needed.

 

It takes time and a modicum of skill to do it successfully.

 

 

[rodiond]

5 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

My experience of working with helicopters from a ship is limited but I have done it and it is fraught with danger.

 

You need plenty of sea room / no other traffic nearby / no land / suitable weather etc. etc.

 

You have to steer have to maintain a course some 15/20 degrees off the wind so as the pilot can see the deck as he approached the ship whilst he has to maintain a course into the wind, excellent communication is needed.

 

It takes time and a modicum of skill to do it successfully.

 

 

What about sending an emergency boat instead of a helicopter - is it an easier option?

[CruiserBruce]

34 minutes ago, rodiond said:

What about sending an emergency boat instead of a helicopter - is it an easier option?

Transport a long distance on a small boat is not the best option...the cruise ship has better facilities. 

 

Rescheduling a glaciers visit is not something you can just do. Many of the glacier areas are by appointment only, and fully booked.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, rodiond said:

Thanks a lot for all the responses.

Just to clarify, I don't "complain" about diverting the ship for medical emergency - it's totally understandable. It's more about the companies handling of the situation.

Also, since it's my first cruise, I was a little surprised that a medical emergency creates a force majeure type of situation. I would assume that medical emergencies happen quite often on cruises (especially given how drunk everyone is) and they should be planned for.

Everyone is drunk?  What other misconceptions do you have?

[MBP&O2/O]

Evacuation by small boat is not a pleasant experience in any form of non-calm sea, as I know from first hand experience .... in this case the open boat was swamped by a 'greenie' which caused even more problems. As said ... the cruise ship has better facilities.

 

 

[DirtyDawg]

15 hours ago, rodiond said:

We've been sailing on a 7-day Alaska Glacier Cruise with Royal Caribbean and there was a medical emergency when the ship was sailing from Skagway to the main attraction of the cruise - Dawes Glacier (somebody on the ship fell really badly). For some reason the crew decided to rush the whole ship to the nearest port (Juneau) instead of sending a helicopter or an emergency boat. As a result, they announced that we had to skip the glacier.

Royal Caribbean refused to compensate us for this change of plans because it was a medical emergency. So my question is - is this normal?
I would expect the likelihood of this kind of an emergency to be pretty high for a 5000 person cruise so they must plan for it. Is there a way to get some kind of compensation?

 

Thank you! 

Welcome to the world of cruising and to Cruise Critic. 

As others have said the cruise lines can and do change itineraries for any reason and the cruise contracts we all agree to allows this. So if you are cruising to visit a particular place or port it would be better to avoid a cruise and try to visit it with a land trip. 

 

As for Cruise Critic you will find answers to your questions here but, as you have experienced already, you also have to endure some internet nitwits who live for criticizing others to make themselves feel superior in their teenie weenie minds. 

 

Don't bother posting this on the Royal board. Those folks think that this place is called Cruise Lovers, not Cruise Critic. They are very protective of their chosen cruise line and any criticism is shunned. (Yes they will be much worse than here.) 😉

 

Enjoy your future travels.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[smokeybandit]

You have to be near death for them to send a helicopter. Even the CDC discourages the practice.

[BecciBoo]

You didn't miss much...book another and this time make sure it's going to Hubbard.  Sawyer is a meh!  IMO.  And totally undependable that you'll even make it past the ice flows or get anywhere near it especially depending on the month you go.  Our first cruise was Hubbard so I had the best to compare with, its the biggest one there.  So when we went to Sawyer and even did the private boat tour up close, we were totally disappointed with it.  Not much calving and then very small stuff.  This pic is from Hubbard with a little tweaking! Took the color out of the background...but the blue ice cube is as it was!