What is YOUR pet peeve, when flying in economy?

[Iluvcruising2]

I am 6ft 3in but we still travel in coach every time we fly. No peeves at all because we get exactly what we expect. Cramped seats and crappy food (along with the occasional free beer).

 

The food in Economy isn't too bad on some carriers, and you can get plenty of beer too!

[ducklite]

Please don't run with the idea that people with less money are necessarily inferior. Just because a person has a limited budget does not mean they are "cheap".

 

 

Face it, 99% of the people in the world have a limited budget. How they choose to spend the discretionary portion of it is what sets each apart from the other.

 

My opinion, if there is another option, it is not right to complain about the one you chose. You (and I mean that collectively) can always wait and save more to afford a better seat, cabin, car, TV, cut of beef, or whatever else. I am constantly amused by the people who complain about the seats in airplanes and say they can't afford to pay for economy comfort/premium economy/etc. yet take numerous cruises each year/buy a new wardrobe for each cruise/etc.

 

That aside, sometimes it is cheapness, other times it is frugalness. But either way it is a choice made with full understanding of the rules surrounding that choice in terms of boarding order, luggage costs, meals, etc. Once a person makes that choice, they lose the right to complain about it,

Edited April 13, 2015 by ducklite

[ducklite]

Most of the folks who fly business don't pay for it themselves. They rack up the points through travel paid by their job. It doesn't mean that they have a better income than you or me necessarily.

 

 

Yes and no. On short hauls I typically get free status upgrades due to status earned through business travel.. On long hauls We typically buy upgradable tickets and use miles to upgrade. Because I've been hoarding my miles to fly F to someplace like Australia, we've been using DH's miles for those upgrades. He does not have business travel miles. They are all accumulated from his commuting between homes in NJ and FL on tickets paid for by us. He makes 12 R/t's a year plus we usually have at least one trip to the west coast. The miles he flies gives him status for free upgrades. Add in double purchase price miles from the affiliated credit card for using it to buy the tickets and there is enough for a couple long haul upgrades every other year.

 

We have also paid for premium economy out of pocket when flying someplace not served by the airline we typically fly or their affiliates. I won't do it on the hour flight from SEA to Tri-Cities on Alaska, but I definitely did for the seven hour overnight AF flight from LAX to PPT.

[Zach1213]

Yeah, what you said makes a lot of sense.

 

I've come to the conclusion that premium cabins (Business and First) are largely for 2 types of pax - the Business traveller (i.e. airfare paid for by company) and the Miles Burner.

 

Those who pay full fare for the premium cabin travel out of their own pocket are probably so rich that money doesn't matter to them anymore.

 

Just my views, I could be wrong.

 

You say "those who pay full fare", but I think you really just mean "those who pay". There is "full fare", and there is discount. Full fare business class, much like full fare economy class, is that super expensive, fully refundable fare. Discount business class, much like discount economy class, is what most people buy - nonrefundable, non-changeable without a fee. Yes, discount business class is more than discount economy class (of course), but sometimes it's not all that terrible, and it doesn't require being "so rich" - just having a decent amount of money and deciding that is a priority of yours.

[fbgd]

Yeah, what you said makes a lot of sense.

 

I've come to the conclusion that premium cabins (Business and First) are largely for 2 types of pax - the Business traveller (i.e. airfare paid for by company) and the Miles Burner.

 

Those who pay full fare for the premium cabin travel out of their own pocket are probably so rich that money doesn't matter to them anymore.

 

Just my views, I could be wrong.

 

I think you'd be surprised how many people pay for business/first out of their own pocket and in "cash" too. I'm certainly not in the "so rich money doesn't matter" camp but I'm not a pauper living beyond my means either. I've not flown economy in probably the last 100+ longhaul flights.

 

I'm single, in my early 30s, no kids, decent job, no debt and it's something I like to treat myself to. Travel is an important thing for me, I work hard and like the trip to start and end when I leave the front door. Due to limited holiday time I don't have the option of saving the money to spend another three weeks on holiday or whatever that decision is. I spend almost every day of my holiday allowance outside the country at various times.

 

There are certain ways to reduce the price significantly that require little effort. Living in NYC and with family in the UK I only fly British Airways when I go home. They have a partnership with AARP whereby for $16/yr I can save $400 on every ticket I purchase, this can be stacked with the British Airways Chase Visa that saves an additional 10% on every ticket.

[Brighton Line]

Most of the folks who fly business don't pay for it themselves. They rack up the points through travel paid by their job. It doesn't mean that they have a better income than you or me necessarily.

 

I work for a government agency and if they are paying I can not earn frequent flyer miles. At 6" 8" I do pay for extra leg room whenever I am allowed or i db those seats are left when I am allowed to purchase.

[sverigecruiser]

Since airtravel has become so much cheaper lots of people can afford to fly in businessclass without being superrich.

 

The first time a flew to the US, 1993, a ticket in economy costed more than half a month salary for me. Now a ticket in business to the US combined with economy back home cost a little more than half my salary for a month. Because of that I can afford it sometimes without being superrich.

[slidergirl]

When I was a software engineer/consultant, I traveled back and forth from home to my clients in NoCa. When I was an employee, I had to pay my own air because I chose to live out of state and telecommute. When I was a consultant, I could build some of the costs of travel into my contracts. That's how I started gathering my miles. I'm not in that business anymore, so I don't get that many BIS miles. I use an affiliated credit card to pay all my utilities and other bills that allow payment by credit card. When possible, I will pay with that credit card. I use the shopping portal provided by the card to earn bonus miles on purchases I would normally make. Even used the card for the down payment for my car (yes, I had the cash for it, but why not get the miles). I then use the miles I accumulate to pay for business class or to upgrade my paid ticket.

[srlafleur]

Where to start......

 

 

 

7. Lack of foot rests. On some of the older airlines the seats use to have footrests in economy, hard to find these days.

 

 

The last few times I've flown business and first didn't even have foot rests! Talk about uncomfortable, if you are short like me. Feet dangling makes my legs ache and my back hurt. (I think it might even put one more at risk of DVT)

[slidergirl]

The last few times I've flown business and first didn't even have foot rests! Talk about uncomfortable, if you are short like me. Feet dangling makes my legs ache and my back hurt. (I think it might even put one more at risk of DVT)

 

You need to look at this:

http://www.magellans.com/itemdy00.aspx?ID=116,3660&T1=MIF465

 

bought one back in 2008 for flying to Europe. I had shattered my left fibula and dislocated the tibia at the ankle back in 2007. This handy little item allowed me to "exercise" my ankle and keep my legs in a comfortable position during long flights. It really doesn't take up room - it rolls in to a little bag that I attach to the outside of my "personal item." I don't fly coach without it!!!

[Zach1213]

You need to look at this:

 

http://www.magellans.com/itemdy00.aspx?ID=116,3660&T1=MIF465

 

 

 

bought one back in 2008 for flying to Europe. I had shattered my left fibula and dislocated the tibia at the ankle back in 2007. This handy little item allowed me to "exercise" my ankle and keep my legs in a comfortable position during long flights. It really doesn't take up room - it rolls in to a little bag that I attach to the outside of my "personal item." I don't fly coach without it!!!

 

 

Ok, I have to finally ask. Are the foot rests for people who can't otherwise touch the ground with their feet? I'm 6' and have never understood the point of a foot rest because it always seems to restrict my legroom in coach, not enhance my comfort, so I am always confused by people who love foot rests.

[navybankerteacher]

Since airtravel has become so much cheaper lots of people can afford to fly in businessclass without being superrich.

 

The first time a flew to the US, 1993, a ticket in economy costed more than half a month salary for me. Now a ticket in business to the US combined with economy back home cost a little more than half my salary for a month. Because of that I can afford it sometimes without being superrich.

 

It's good to see someone recognize what a great bargain air travel has become; too many simply complain about "high fares" without realizing that, adjusted for inflation, the real cost of air travel is actually cheaper now than virtually ever before. I took my first trans-continental R/T flight in 1958 - costing about $150. Such a flight today might run $600 -- sure that is four times as many dollars; but a first class letter now costs more than ten times as much, my daily newspaper fifteen times as much, a gallon of gasoline - at today's $2.40 - twelve times as much. --- the list goes on and on.

[LHT28]

Those who pay full fare for the premium cabin travel out of their own pocket are probably so rich that money doesn't matter to them anymore.

 

Just my views, I could be wrong.

 

Yes you could be wrong

 

We do not have mega points nor are we rich

We are getting older & flying hours in Econ seat is not worth it so we occasionally buy the nonrefundable Bus seats or upgrade to the plus seats

We do not spend our money on dinners out or expensive entertainment venues so upgrading for our personal comfort when flying is a treat

[slidergirl]

Ok, I have to finally ask. Are the foot rests for people who can't otherwise touch the ground with their feet? I'm 6' and have never understood the point of a foot rest because it always seems to restrict my legroom in coach, not enhance my comfort, so I am always confused by people who love foot rests.

 

It helps keep my bad ankle (I still have a plate with 11 screws in my leg and ankle) able to move/rotate and not slide under the seat to an uncomfortable position for it when I'm asleep. That one I have has a very slight incline to it - I can make like a cat and "pad" with my feet to keep them from freezing up. I'm 5'8", so my feet can touch the ground. It is very comfortable for me. I got it originally for flights I had home/JFK/Cairo/Amman/JFK/home in economy on a trip I took with friends. Been using it ever since when I don't get to fly Business in seats that have the leg/foot elevated feature.

[1982CruzStart]

Yes you could be wrong

 

We do not have mega points nor are we rich

We are getting older & flying hours in Econ seat is not worth it so we occasionally buy the nonrefundable Bus seats or upgrade to the plus seats

We do not spend our money on dinners out or expensive entertainment venues so upgrading for our personal comfort when flying is a treat

 

Same with us. We are far from rich and don't have a lot of points but whenever we are flying long distances we buy the lowest business class fares. We go on really one big trip a year and want to enjoy it to the fullest. Our last big trip took over 30 hours to get home and we couldn't have done that if we had flown economy.

[grandma*knows*best]

I work for a government agency and if they are paying I can not earn frequent flyer miles.....

 

My husband flew so many miles on United when he was on active duty that he became a million miler and he was able to keep all his FF miles. What government agency does not allow you to keep FF miles?

[grandma*knows*best]

The last few times I've flown business and first didn't even have foot rests! Talk about uncomfortable, if you are short like me. Feet dangling makes my legs ache and my back hurt. (I think it might even put one more at risk of DVT)

 

This is common for domestic first/business seats.

[6rugrats]

My husband flew so many miles on United when he was on active duty that he became a million miler and he was able to keep all his FF miles. What government agency does not allow you to keep FF miles?

 

Maybe the fare class it was booked in didn't earn FF miles.

[FlyerTalker]

A number of "contract fares" do not earn miles. Completely depends on the specifics of the contract between the airline and the employer.

[critterchick]

Especially if they are in my aisle seat and they have a middle seat.

Has happened too many times.

 

I've seen people try to take my aisle seat but so far none have succeeded.:)

 

On my last Delta flight, I was upgraded to First, but when we took off the FA made an announcement that there were a lot of empty seats in economy and that once the seatbelt sign went off, economy pax were welcome to move to any emtpy seat EXCEPT in rows X and X because those were economy comfort and subject to an additional fee. So it's not always possible to "poach" those seats for free after the door closes.

 

UA did that the last time we flew them, too. An FA even asked me if I was in my assigned seat (exit row aisle) because a 1K wanted it and she was prepared to boot me for him if it wasn't.

 

I don't really have an "economy" pet peeve - I've seen all of the behavior commented on here in BC and FC, too.

[Iluvcruising2]

I think you'd be surprised how many people pay for business/first out of their own pocket and in "cash" too. I'm certainly not in the "so rich money doesn't matter" camp but I'm not a pauper living beyond my means either. I've not flown economy in probably the last 100+ longhaul flights.

 

I'm single, in my early 30s, no kids, decent job, no debt and it's something I like to treat myself to. Travel is an important thing for me, I work hard and like the trip to start and end when I leave the front door. Due to limited holiday time I don't have the option of saving the money to spend another three weeks on holiday or whatever that decision is. I spend almost every day of my holiday allowance outside the country at various times.

 

There are certain ways to reduce the price significantly that require little effort. Living in NYC and with family in the UK I only fly British Airways when I go home. They have a partnership with AARP whereby for $16/yr I can save $400 on every ticket I purchase, this can be stacked with the British Airways Chase Visa that saves an additional 10% on every ticket.

 

I can see your point. Good for you!

[voyager1964]

1. Because they pay a premium that actually helps subsidize the economy fares...

Could you please substantiate this statement? From my amateur'ish point of view, this would be the case if the ratio

square footage per business passenger/ square footage per economy passenger is less than the

ratio

business fare/ economic fare

(neglecting additional business perks)

[6rugrats]

Could you please substantiate this statement? From my amateur'ish point of view, this would be the case if the ratio

square footage per business passenger/ square footage per economy passenger is less than the

ratio

business fare/ economic fare

(neglecting additional business perks)

I don't understand what you are saying. But, ducklite is correct. You can find many more articles yourself:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2007/03/airlines_and_inequality

 

Article on square footage:

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2014/12/inequality-planes

Edited April 19, 2015 by 6rugrats

[greatam]

Could you please substantiate this statement? From my amateur'ish point of view, this would be the case if the ratio

square footage per business passenger/ square footage per economy passenger is less than the

ratio

business fare/ economic fare

(neglecting additional business perks)

 

Not only do business and first class fares subsidize coach fares, but my highly perishable food products shipped by air right under passengers butts subsidize a lot of fares.

 

Yesterday we shipped 1 400# pallet of Burrata cheese and 4 1600# pallets of fresh prime beef which was sent via Emirates from JFK to Dubai. We get about a 35% discount over spot market freight because we ship fresh prime beef weekly to Dubai. But the bill was still slightly over $13,000 NOT counting the refrigerated containers ($570 each and we needed 11), delivery to the airport, customs papers and delivery to the end customer in Dubai from the airport. Total cost is over $20,000.

 

That amount would totally pay for about 35 passengers economy one way fare from JFK to Dubai.

 

Our freight subsidizes even more leisure passengers on the route from NYC to Florida when we ship chocolates, cheese, lots of kosher deserts and party planning stuff for Bar/Bat Mitzvah's and weddings. Passover air freight to Florida from NYC was way, way up there moneywise-just about the same as a full planeload of economy passengers. And the planes were still full of passengers.

Edited April 19, 2015 by greatam

[Globaliser]

Could you please substantiate this statement? From my amateur'ish point of view, this would be the case if the ratio

square footage per business passenger/ square footage per economy passenger is less than the

ratio

business fare/ economic fare

(neglecting additional business perks)

There are lots of comparisons that you can do on published seat maps on websites like seatguru.com where you can see how many business class seats can be put into a particular aircraft space in one configuration, and how many economy class seats can be put into the same space in a different configuration of the same aircraft type.

 

The airline I know best - British Airways - is just about to embark on a process of converting some of its 747s from their current configuration to one with a higher number of business class seats. This is being done by changing one zone of the cabin (Zone D) from a mixture of premium economy and economy to business and economy. There are currently 30 premium economy seats and 40 economy seats in that zone. After the conversion, there will be 16 business class seats and 30 premium economy seats.

 

So you can see the like-for-like swap of 16 business class seats for 40 economy seats. Now, if you use a rule of thumb that says that an average business class passenger pays about 5 times what an average economy class passenger pays, you can immediately see the uplift in revenue and profit.

 

Personally, I don't like the word subsidy because there are too many different ways of analysing the revenue that comes from different (human and non-human) traffic on board any aircraft. But there will be many economy passengers at the lowest end of the fare scale who are undoubtedly barely paying their attributable costs, if that.