Viking Sky position, adrift off Norway Coast and evacuating Passengers & Crew

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Haha, I’ve been personally involved in a couple of things that ended up on tv news or in the paper (sorry Jim, no jail time for ol’ Ragnar involved), and the stories/articles were completely and utterly wrong - about every fact and detail, and even on the general gist of the subject matter. 

 

I learned long ago to never trust a newspaper article or tv news spot.

[kathy49]

2 hours ago, orvil said:

There was a video that showed one of lounges with a piano bolted to the deck. Furniture was moving and potted plants were rolling.  I remember thinking at the time that the safest place would be in one of the corridors where there was less chance of being hit or crushed by moving debris.

 

A few hours later, I saw a video of the same lounge and the piano had broken free from its attachment, turned on it's top like a turtle and slid across the floor.  

 

As a former flight attendant, we were taught to always be aware of our surroundings.  In an event such as this, you have to think about your safety and protect yourself from injury.  Once you are injured, you are not able to help yourself and must rely on others.  I would have left that lounge asap.  All you need during this incident is to break a wrist or leg and try to evacuate or swim.  It won't have a happy ending. 

 

Jumping into one of these slides is a blast.  But, I'd hate to have to do it for real.  Any exposed skin will burn because of the friction.  Siting in an open raft in a swimming pool is sporty.  I'd hate to have to do it in open ocean.  

I was amazed at people just sitting in there as ceiling was coming down and things flying...it must have literally been at the very real impact of the storm...a very unsafe place to be and I also remarked on that planter and the sort of lightweight appearing chairs.

 

 

[kathy49]

1 hour ago, Silkroad said:

It’s not necessary to block out faces in photos of crowd scenes, but publishing close ups once required the permission of the subjects. I’m certain social media have blurred those lines, but those photos would have been powerful enough with the most identifiable subjects cropped. 

I saw one of a woman awake and a man...I thought that was awful and should never have seen the light of day...who goes around under these circumstances taking these close up shots. Big group photos okay but those were invasive and now on social media.

[nho9504]

37 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

I was amazed at people just sitting in there as ceiling was coming down and things flying...it must have literally been at the very real impact of the storm...a very unsafe place to be and I also remarked on that planter and the sort of lightweight appearing chairs.

 

 

 

Exactly how I felt when I watched that video - a woman got up and walked to a chair near by - a big chair just flew across the floor right behind her, barely missed her legs.  Just 5 to 10 seconds later, the panels on the ceilings gave in and hit some people sitting right below.

All the while these passengers just sat there, WITHOUT any barriers in front of their seats while the heavy furniture were flying back and forth, plus the planter...

I was like, What were these idiots thinking?  You can get hurt in any moment! 

There was a crew (in white shirt and black plants) walked around obviously trying to keep order - what he should have done was to ORDER these idiots to move far away from the potential dangers - the glass panels could give way to the crashing waves and water gushing in (that happened in the restaurant, right?)  the sliding furniture could easily hit somebody's feet or legs...

 

Yeah, these are supposed seasoned cruisers who paid 6000 sterling pound each for the cruise - yet they are SO MUCH LACK OF COMMON SENSE!

[Homosassa]

5 hours ago, lc73 said:

First off, wishing the best to all passengers of this horrific cruise, particularly those few that suffered broken  bones or to anyone suffering from trauma from this event.

 

A few questions for  gretschwhtfalcon  or for anyone else on this cruise who is comfortable talking about the cruise. I get very nervous about cruises and going on the Sky shortly and answers to any of these questions below would be appreciated.

 

About how long was the power off?

Were a lot of people having to sleep on the floors?

Were the restroom functional during this time?  (Could the toilets flush?  Did the restrooms have lights?)

Could one wash their hands in the restrooms after using facilities?

How long did people stay in the muster areas for those not evacuated?  Were they able to return to their cabins?

How long between the alarm to go to muster and either disembarkation or access to the cabins again?

Was food and non-alcoholic drinks available during the time passengers were in the muster area?

 

Thoughts go out to anyone still suffering from this experience. Wish all the passengers and crew the very best.

 

Answers to these question have no purpose as any emergency on board ship will vary and have no set parameters on what a passenger could expect to happen.

 

If you are going to travel, just remember that anything may go wrong and it will be a part of the experience and learning process.

[just_dont]

 
Exactly how I felt when I watched that video - a woman got up and walked to a chair near by - a big chair just flew across the floor right behind her, barely missed her legs.  Just 5 to 10 seconds later, the panels on the ceilings gave in and hit some people sitting right below.
All the while these passengers just sat there, WITHOUT any barriers in front of their seats while the heavy furniture were flying back and forth, plus the planter...
I was like, What were these idiots thinking?  You can get hurt in any moment! 
There was a crew (in white shirt and black plants) walked around obviously trying to keep order - what he should have done was to ORDER these idiots to move far away from the potential dangers - the glass panels could give way to the crashing waves and water gushing in (that happened in the restaurant, right?)  the sliding furniture could easily hit somebody's feet or legs...
 
Yeah, these are supposed seasoned cruisers who paid 6000 sterling pound each for the cruise - yet they are SO MUCH LACK OF COMMON SENSE!

To be fair to those people, the ship was rolling quite a lot, and it was likely very difficult to stand or move around without getting thrown across the room like the furniture. Sitting still may have been the safer option, until the ceiling started coming down, but even then, how do you move safely?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Grandma Cruising]

I presumed they were where they had been told to go!

[hapster85]

The late Michael Crichton wrote an insightful essay on the topic of media disinformation.
 
http://larvatus.com/michael-crichton-why-speculate/
 

Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I refer to it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect, than it would otherwise have.)

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

 

It's ironic that people often realize this when they have personal knowledge of a particular subject, but then will take any story on any other subject at face value. I've been as guilty of it as anyone of falling into the trap.

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 minute ago, hapster85 said:

2 hours ago, philw1776 said:

The late Michael Crichton wrote an insightful essay on the topic of media disinformation.
 
http://larvatus.com/michael-crichton-why-speculate/
 

Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I refer to it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect, than it would otherwise have.)

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

 

It's ironic that people often realize this when they have personal knowledge of a particular subject, but then will take any story on any other subject at face value. I've been as guilty of it as anyone of falling into the trap.

 

I think that's the "amnesia" part of the theory.  And I agree – any story on a topic I know about is generally laughably wrong, even when the reporter isn't deliberately slanting the news.

[gatour]

3 hours ago, Silkroad said:

I was impressed by the informational posts made by this intrepid woman. I was less impressed that she posted invasive photos of people sleeping, as well as the identifiable faces of other passengers. I realize that some people seem to have no concept of personal image privacy these days, but I would never post photos of peoples' faces without their permission. 

If you are in a public space then you should have the expectation that you may be photographed.

[nho9504]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Thanks.  Fairly typical report from short term employee, and likely entertainment staff.  Don't doubt ship was rolling heavily, but not 45* as stated, as nearly every ship when listed 45* would have the promenade deck in the water.  Totally ignorant about lifeboats, and yes, storing lifejackets on the promenade deck can cause difficulties, but that's what the crew are there for, to assist the passengers, and if they were out on the open deck without being tied off, then their supervisor should be fired, as this is basic seamanship.  There are trade offs between lifejackets in cabins  and in central locations, you can argue either way, and IMO allows either.

 

Agree the list would not be 45 degree (the ship would have tipped over already!)

 

However the need to retrieve lifejacket from outside deck bothers me a lot.

 

Of all the cruises we took, although none of them small ships,  the lifejackets are in your cabin with your muster station number clearly marked - this is the case for RCL, HAL, Princess, Celebrity and Carnival.  The crew interviewed via phone on this article said they had to form a human chain to open the door to the open deck to retrieve the lifejackets for the passengers... 

I know each ship has big boxes on the outside decks to store EXTRA lifejacket in case in an emergency passengers have no time to return to their staterooms to retrieve the lifejackets then go to Muster stations.

But isn't the Sky has notified the passengers the danger of the situation long enough before the ship had to send out Mayday signals? 

I cannot get over the video showing those passengers sitting at the lounge WITHOUT any barriers between them and the glass floor to ceiling wall, waves pounding and furniture sliding - they just sat there watching as if it is some kind of big show the sea was putting on - nobody thought about this was a VERY DANGEROUS PLACE to be at  during that moment?!  '

If I were in such environment, I would gather my important personal belongs - all stuff in the safe and medications, with my lifejacket nearby and be ready for the worst.

Of our many cruises, there were many occasions the ships had lost powers, in one occasion, for over 3 hours.  Captains came on PA after the first hour to inform us what was going on...  Granted, all of such incidents we were at calm seas.  The last time such happened we were leaving Naples on Crown Princess after its major dry dock in Apr 2018.  Our dinner table was by the window - we noticed halfway thru our dinner, the ship had turned, now with its bow towards the Naples harbour!  In other words, during the past hour the ship was not going anywhere but turning circles not too far from the harbour.

By the time we finished our dinner the ship was still not moving... It took another 30 min then the Captain came on PA and briefly informed us what had happened - we lost one engine and the other engine was also having issues, but they finally fixed it - however it required time to slowly bring the engines to full running power.  Captain explained he did not want to make the PA while most of us were enjoying our final dining room dinner on board - we would disembark at Rome the next morning.

 

I am curious to know how Sky handled its communication of the graveness of the situation to her passengers - why people were still allowed to sit at such dangerous place when things were sliding back and forth?  Why the crew had to risk their lives to retrieve lifejackets from outside deck?

 

Personally I think this incident / accident EXPOSE A Lot of Operation Issues the Viking Oceans have - the Master is a hired gun, not a direct employee by the cruise lines like the mass market lines,  for example.  While the crew is very admirable in handling the situations - the procedures in handling such seem to be quite different from other major cruise lines which ships had gone thru WORSE storms when things were crashing down everywhere...

Passengers were gathered in the INSIDE venues AWAY from windows based on what we have seen in past similar situations and the sea was MUCH worse.

The sea the Sky was facing was nothing comparing what we had encountered in our multiple TATL crossings (we have done 12 or 13 or 14 of such, lost count).  The only difference is, the sea was much much deeper when we facing the extremely high sea, versus the coastal area of  the Norway west coast.

[Pratique]

18 minutes ago, just_dont said:

To be fair to those people, the ship was rolling quite a lot, and it was likely very difficult to stand or move around without getting thrown across the room like the furniture. Sitting still may have been the safer option, until the ceiling started coming down, but even then, how do you move safely?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

I agree. If you watch the horizon you can see how much the ship was listing and how quickly it heaved. To me, it didn't look safe to start moving to the muster stations when the general alarm sounded. One crew member working in the area said in an interview that they couldn't move around because the ship was moving too much. They were hanging on for dear life.

[nho9504]

29 minutes ago, just_dont said:

To be fair to those people, the ship was rolling quite a lot, and it was likely very difficult to stand or move around without getting thrown across the room like the furniture. Sitting still may have been the safer option, until the ceiling started coming down, but even then, how do you move safely?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

 

They should have been moved to INSIDE far away from the big floor to ceiling glass walls long before the situation getting very precarious.

 

As I said, this incident / accident has exposed a lot operational issues on how Viking Oceans are operated.  Lots of the procedures that are standard on the mass market lines dont seem to be followed here.

Vikings strikes me as a welcome addition to the existing luxury lines to choose from - but this incident /accident completely change my mind after seeing how things were handled - it is not like the crews not done a super job, they did.  It is how things can get off hand, so out of control in such fashion that scares me.

Edited March 26, 2019 by nho9504
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[Captain_Morgan]

as has been mentioned, the media report in USA Today by a supposedly trained and informed crew member is nothing more than sensationalism at its finest.  there's no way the ship was listed 45° and the issue of the lifejackets being stored outside is not as bad as it sounds, albeit not as ideal as has been mentioned on other lines where they're in the staterooms/cabins.  from what i've been told from sources with direct knowledge, the lifejacket lockers for the crew are on Deck 3 (boat deck is Deck 2) and although technically they are accessed via an outer deck, the area is still relatively close inboard and not open to the sea, with just a railing between them and the deep blue.

the mention of a 'human chain' is again something which has been misconstrued as the area is such that if you don't form a line/queue there's no other way to get to the locker where the lifejackets are being held and there are apparently crew designated to hand them out as crew get to the locker, so an orderly exercise or as close to it as can be imagined.

 

i too was shaking my head with the video of the people sat in the Explorers Lounge on Deck 7, looking out the windows as the furniture and potted plants went sailing across, followed by ceiling panels coming down on their heads.  anyone who's been at sea knows that the higher up you are, the worse it feels due to being further away from the center of gravity, so even though the general alarm hadn't sounded yet, you'd think being up high and near the front of the ship would be the last/worst place to just hang about and watch the weather get worse 🤔 

[jiminyC_fan]

I hope this person doesn't mind me quoting his Facebook post.  It sure tells you how Viking handled things.  I wish all the people judging Viking could read this. 

 

"As a passenger on the Viking Sky that was stranded in Norway, I want to say that the captain and crew on the Sky did an exceptional job keeping us informed, safe and comfortable during the crisis. Viking did an exceptional job of rebooking air to get us from the port in Moulde to home with minimal issues. While the whole ordeal was frightening, it was NOT as terrifyingly scary as the news media portrayed it to be. (Surprise, surprise, surprise—they do not have the big picture)

This was not at all like the Carnival Cruise ship stranded in the Caribbean, we could not muster outdoors due to cold, wind and rain and large waves and the ship was dangerously close to rocks (think Costa Condordia).

Prior to leaving the Sky in Moulde for the trip to the airport, we met with Torstein Hagen, founder and CEO of Viking. He stated that we would all receive a refund for the cruise and a Viking voucher for a free future Viking Cruise. This again is unlike how Carnival handled their Caribbean stranding where each guest was only given a $200 credit for another Carnival Cruise . ****as an addendum, my correction follows, Carnival comped the passengers on the stranded vessel for the cruise and reimbursed them $2000, per a individual who apparently was part of the affected cruise *****

Viking again comes though showing the reasons they are simply THE best when it comes to cruising. They could give lessons to the other cruise lines as well as a few US companies about correct, excellent customer service and caring for and about the people who travel with them.
GO VIKING !

I could add more accolades for Viking, the Captain and crew as well as the fine people of Moulde, Norway who came to the pier to give the ship and everyone a warm Norwegian welcome but I will stop here for now.

Will I cruise with Viking again? an unequivocal YES. Would I do this particular cruise again with Viking, again YES (especially since the Lights did not materialize as we had hoped)

My advice, if you do have a cruise booked with Viking in the future, please make your own decision if you decide to cancel; however,take it from me when I say that while the ordeal was dangerous and frightening, the Captain and crew were exceptional in how it was handled and how we as guests were treated.

One final item of a very positive nature, Viking CHARTERED a flight from Moulde to Oslo to get us there in time for a 0600 hour flight to Frankfurt. Still more reason to trust Viking and the way that they handled this potentially very serious misadventure."

 

 

 

222

[drsue]

The muster stations on these ships are on the 2nd deck: the theater and the restaurant.  That video was shot off the bow on the 7th deck (Explorer's Lounge)! According to direct quotes on The Points Guy (https://thepointsguy.com/guides/what-to-do-if-you-find-yourself-on-a-wildly-tilting-cruise-ship/), Ms. Sheppard stated, “I’m a yachtswoman, so I needed to see it up close and in person,” explaining why she positioned herself on the 7th floor forward!

[chengkp75]

Actually, the ship could, if the watertight doors on the promenade deck were holding, heel over well past 45* without "tipping over".  Right up to just shy of 90*, the farther the ship heels over, the greater the force it generates to  right itself.  Many newer ships don't have lifejackets in the cabins anymore, they are stored at the muster locations.  In most cases where I've heard about ships going through very heavy weather, the passengers were not mustered, so they were not collected together.  On the Sky, they were mustered so that they could be brought on deck for evacuation, without having to round up passengers, since the limited air assets were already operating at maximum endurance, and waiting on passengers to make it from distant cabins would only exacerbate the problem.

 

As for the Captain being a "hired gun", this is not quite correct, nor fair to him or any of the officers and crew, who are all "hired guns" by your definition.  The use of an operating company by a shipowner who prefers to outsource the recruitment of personnel (especially in a field where the company has no expertise, like Viking hiring unlimited ocean crew instead of river only licensed personnel).  Wilhelmsen Ship Management is a recognized major player in global ship management, and officers and crew hired by an operating company have just as much loyalty and commitment to the shipowner as direct employees, since if the shipowner is not happy with the crew's performance, the contract for the management company could be in jeopardy, so the management company strives to please the customer.

 

Would love to hear what operational issues you feel that Viking has, and your knowledge of the ISM code in general and the Norwegian and DNV applications of this code, and Viking's company code that has been approved by these two agencies as meeting the international convention.

[lc73]

40 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Answers to these question have no purpose as any emergency on board ship will vary and have no set parameters on what a passenger could expect to happen.

 

Actually for me these do.  With my severe OCD knowing these answers will determine whether I cancel my SKY cruise or not.  Too much to explain this, as I can understand why on the surface these questions seem irrelevant, but you have to trust me on this, they are definitely not for me. 🙂

Edited March 26, 2019 by lc73
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[Silkroad]

40 minutes ago, gatour said:

If you are in a public space then you should have the expectation that you may be photographed.

That doesn't make it right, or civil, or humane for a person to publish photos of other people during vulnerable moments (sleeping, injured, ill, distressed). 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Silkroad

[AmazedByCruising]

13 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

i too was shaking my head with the video of the people sat in the Explorers Lounge on Deck 7, looking out the windows as the furniture and potted plants went sailing across, followed by ceiling panels coming down on their heads.

 

In the very beginning you can hear the surprise when the furniture starts moving and no alarm was sounded. I don't blame them for not immediately getting away, as that might have been more dangerous.  

 

13 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

anyone who's been at sea knows that the higher up you are, the worse it feels due to being further away from the center of gravity, so even though the general alarm hadn't sounded yet, you'd think being up high and near the front of the ship would be the last/worst place to just hang about and watch the weather get wors

 

This may have been their first trip to the sea, and frankly, I'd feel safer high up too when the ship could end up stranded, which is alo far away from the waves that could smash in windows. Not every passenger has been to sea for years 🙂

Edited March 26, 2019 by AmazedByCruising

[oann]

https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/losen-reagerer-pa-kritikk---fantastisk-sjomannskap/70913610

 

From dagbladet, one of the main newspapers in Norway. Basically one of the pilots onboard when it happened got tired of the criticism of the captain and crew and went out publicly to defend them. He basically says that the weather was not a problem for a ship of this type and everything was fine until they lost power ( which as I've explained before can happen anywhere at anytime ). He then goes on to praise the crew and says that the way they handled the situation and the passengers should be used as a textbook on how to handle such an situation.

 

The main broadcaster in Norway has reported that investigators are onboard as well as representatives from the Uk as well as the US coast guard. The investigators state that it can take a while before they go public with their findings, unless there is a clear and present danger to other ships in which case they will issue a special bulletin, this might be if they find a design fault or something like that ( much like boeing recently did ) but that he did not expect this to be the case.

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, oann said:

https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/losen-reagerer-pa-kritikk---fantastisk-sjomannskap/70913610

 

From dagbladet, one of the main newspapers in Norway. Basically one of the pilots onboard when it happened got tired of the criticism of the captain and crew and went out publicly to defend them. He basically says that the weather was not a problem for a ship of this type and everything was fine until they lost power ( which as I've explained before can happen anywhere at anytime ). He then goes on to praise the crew and says that the way they handled the situation and the passengers should be used as a textbook on how to handle such an situation.

 

The main broadcaster in Norway has reported that investigators are onboard as well as representatives from the Uk as well as the US coast guard. The investigators state that it can take a while before they go public with their findings, unless there is a clear and present danger to other ships in which case they will issue a special bulletin, this might be if they find a design fault or something like that ( much like boeing recently did ) but that he did not expect this to be the case.

Thanks for the update and perspective from someone in the Norwegian maritime.

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Thanks for the update and perspective from someone in the Norwegian maritime.

Agreed but this pilot also has a stake since he was one of those giving advice.

[philw1776]

17 minutes ago, lc73 said:

Actually for me these do.  With my severe OCD knowing these answers will determine whether I cancel my SKY cruise or not.  Too much to explain this, as I can understand why on the surface these questions seem irrelevant, but you have to trust me on this, they are definitely not for me. 🙂

I suggest that you just ignore the 1st 7 words you quoted and re-read the following part about set parameters quoted.  It correctly states that there are no absolute, situation invariant answers to many of the questions posed.  If severe OCD causes this non-answerable conundrum to bother you, it may well be appropriate to consider cancellation.  Only you are capable of evaluating the many unanswerable factors and making a decision that leaves you comfortable. 

[broberts]

5 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Agreed but this pilot also has a stake since he was one of those giving advice.

 

True, a professional opining in his area of expertise.