Plastic straw ban? (If so, substitutes on board?)

[clo]

54 minutes ago, JPR said:

Sorry, but some of us hate the mouthfeel of paper straws. There are biodegradable bamboo and other substitutes available that are slightly more expensive but far more durable and look and feel like plastic straws. I too will bring my own.

 

Banning plastic straws was classic overwrought “virtue signaling” based on junk science by a nine year old.  The plastic sippee tops that Starbucks introduced are unsanitary and messy, and use more plastic than the straws they replaced.

Please provide reputable and verifiable citations to support your claims.  Thanks in advance.

[ATSEAMYLIFE]

We have been served drinks several times in San Francisco with bamboo straws.  They are great and very strong.  

[JPR]

clo:

 

Not sure why you can’t research this yourself, but the unscientific origin of the straw ban is a fact: 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-movement-based-unverified-statistic-500-million-day/750563002/

 

Re Starbucks new plastic tops and the environment t (if you can’t understand why they are unsanitary compared to a sanitary wrapped straw I can’t help you): https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-straws-ban-2020-environment

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by JPR

[Cruise Junky]

39 minutes ago, JPR said:

clo:

 

Not sure why you can’t research this yourself, but the unscientific origin of the straw ban is a fact: 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-movement-based-unverified-statistic-500-million-day/750563002/

 

Re Starbucks new plastic tops and the environment t (if you can’t understand why they are unsanitary compared to a sanitary wrapped straw I can’t help you): https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-straws-ban-2020-environment

 

Why are the plastic lids more unsanitary than the normal plastic coffee lids? 

[Shawnino]

Oceania (and other lines) and pax: saving the environment by sailing fuel burning 30,000- and 66,000-ton vessels about the oceans for pleasure 24/7, 365 days a year.

But... but... no plastic straws!

 

 

[RJB]

11 hours ago, JPR said:

Sorry, but some of us hate the mouthfeel of paper straws. There are biodegradable bamboo and other substitutes available that are slightly more expensive but far more durable and look and feel like plastic straws. I too will bring my own.

 

Banning plastic straws was classic overwrought “virtue signaling” based on junk science by a nine year old.  The plastic sippee tops that Starbucks introduced are unsanitary and messy, and use more plastic than the straws they replaced.

I think if you took a vote most of us would hate them and would find no real reason to ban them.

[JPR]

Cruise Junky:

 

8 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

Why are the plastic lids more unsanitary than the normal plastic coffee lids? 

 

That’s obvious: Starbucks’ new “sipee” plastic lids are intended for customers to drink from instead of straws (which you have to request) but unlike straws are not protected by sanitary paper or other coverings when used and are placed directly on the cups by baristas with their bare hands (they do not wear disposable gloves or any sanitary gloves). Straws are generally served encased in sanitary paper.

 

California similarly banned free plastic bags in grocery stores; now you have to pay for them or bring your own reusable bag, which unless washed after each use are also unsanitary.

 

Also, some seriously impaired people need reliable straws to drink from for safety reasons, and metal straws can be dangerous.

 

The banning or restricting of plastic straws was an all-too-easy “feel good” action (and a first step on the road to banning all plastic) that was never thought through logically and scientifically. There’s no problem with requiring that customers request them rather than just handing them out with each drink. 

 

Oceania should at a minimum replace them with the new bamboo straws that actually work well. But note that they are a bit more expensive, so for now we will need to bring our own plastic or reusable straws.

Edited August 19, 2019 by JPR

[ruthnlarry]

13 hours ago, JPR said:

Sorry, but some of us hate the mouthfeel of paper straws. There are biodegradable bamboo and other substitutes available that are slightly more expensive but far more durable and look and feel like plastic straws. I too will bring my own.

 

Banning plastic straws was classic overwrought “virtue signaling” based on junk science by a nine year old.  The plastic sippee tops that Starbucks introduced are unsanitary and messy, and use more plastic than the straws they replaced.

Milo Cress' estimate that Americans use 500 million plastic straws a day was an estimate based on figures that plastic straw manufacturers gave the 9 year-old. It is not junk science. “Eco-Cycle, a Colorado-based recycling nonprofit that partnered with Cress' campaign, trusts his statistic. If anything, said Eco-Cycle communications director Harlin Savage, 500 million straws per day could be too low. And if anyone has come up with a different figure, Savage  — plus a lot of other people, she said —  would like to see it.” “The number this fourth grader came up with in 2011, as part of a personal environmental conservation campaign, has proved surprisingly durable, working its way to the heart of the debate over plastic straws.” NY Times.

The exact number of plastic straws that Americans use daily is debatable. However, the fact remains that we use too much plastic, plastic that is polluting our environment, accumulating in our oceans, and harming marine life. Milo Cress should not be attacked by those who deny these facts, but should be applauded for drawing our attention to the plight of our planet. Most of us can easily do without plastic straws without drastically changing our behavior. Isn't a tiny sacrifice such as living without plastic straws worthwhile if our environment can benefit? Why are some so selfish that they can't consider the “greater good”? How have we come to this?

It's really funny (ironic) that Cress' estimate of plastic straw usage is attacked by a minority because it is not published in a reliable, peer-reviewed scientific journals. Global climate change, its causes and effects have been widely studied and published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Yet, many of those who disparage Cress still refuse to believe the scientists who warn us about climate change. Acknowledging climate change and the issues of plastic straws involves admitting a major problem that requires a change in our behavior to help protect and preserve our planet.

[KirkNC]

24 minutes ago, ruthnlarry said:

Milo Cress' estimate that Americans use 500 million plastic straws a day was an estimate based on figures that plastic straw manufacturers gave the 9 year-old. It is not junk science. “Eco-Cycle, a Colorado-based recycling nonprofit that partnered with Cress' campaign, trusts his statistic. If anything, said Eco-Cycle communications director Harlin Savage, 500 million straws per day could be too low. And if anyone has come up with a different figure, Savage  — plus a lot of other people, she said —  would like to see it.” “The number this fourth grader came up with in 2011, as part of a personal environmental conservation campaign, has proved surprisingly durable, working its way to the heart of the debate over plastic straws.” NY Times.

The exact number of plastic straws that Americans use daily is debatable. However, the fact remains that we use too much plastic, plastic that is polluting our environment, accumulating in our oceans, and harming marine life. Milo Cress should not be attacked by those who deny these facts, but should be applauded for drawing our attention to the plight of our planet. Most of us can easily do without plastic straws without drastically changing our behavior. Isn't a tiny sacrifice such as living without plastic straws worthwhile if our environment can benefit? Why are some so selfish that they can't consider the “greater good”? How have we come to this?

It's really funny (ironic) that Cress' estimate of plastic straw usage is attacked by a minority because it is not published in a reliable, peer-reviewed scientific journals. Global climate change, its causes and effects have been widely studied and published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Yet, many of those who disparage Cress still refuse to believe the scientists who warn us about climate change. Acknowledging climate change and the issues of plastic straws involves admitting a major problem that requires a change in our behavior to help protect and preserve our planet.

 

Agreed!

[JPR]

I have no problem with phasing out single-use plastic water bottles, which are far more damaging to the environment than plastic straws and can more easily be replaced with individual reusable water bottles. 

 

This is a longer debate not suitable for this forum, but I recommend that you read the thoughtful work of Danish environmentalist Bjorn Lomborg. He has a rational view that focuses on adaptation to climate change and rational market solutions to environmental issues. 

 

The irrefutable truth is that the U.S. and the West as a whole could go carbon neutral and “clean” tomorrow (at great pain; energy costs in California are already the highest in the country, and the latest push is to ban meat and natural gas—which is relatively clean—and even to restrict air conditioning) and it would have no significant impact on climate change or the environment because of China, India, Russia, and the developing world. Solar and wind power cannot begin to replace fossil fuels in the foreseeable future.

 

What could help significantly is moving worldwide to nuclear power and expanding hydroelectric power—both of which are totally opposed by environmentalists.

 

As as a prime example of environmental irrationality, Germany banned nuclear power after Fukushima, even though Germany has no earthquake activity and intermittent sunlight; they now pay a large premium to buy their energy from totally nuclear France (one area where the French are quite wise) and dirty coal from the Czech Republic.

 

Similarly, Gov. Cuomo ended New York’s fracking industry—even California permits it—and energy prices have soared in that state.

Edited August 19, 2019 by JPR

[clo]

3 hours ago, Shawnino said:

Oceania (and other lines) and pax: saving the environment by sailing fuel burning 30,000- and 66,000-ton vessels about the oceans for pleasure 24/7, 365 days a year.

But... but... no plastic straws!

 

 

I frequently see the attitude of if you can't solve the problem - whatever that problem is - then you don't need to do anything.

[clo]

1 hour ago, ruthnlarry said:

Acknowledging climate change and the issues of plastic straws involves admitting a major problem that requires a change in our behavior to help protect and preserve our planet.

I see more and more examples of close-minded-ness. I've jokingly said "don't confuse them with the facts."  I guess I 'get it' but it honestly angers me.  

 

As far as plastic straws, I read that they can't be recycled due to their size.  They literally "fall through the cracks."

[RJB]

5 hours ago, ruthnlarry said:

Milo Cress' estimate that Americans use 500 million plastic straws a day was an estimate based on figures that plastic straw manufacturers gave the 9 year-old. It is not junk science. “Eco-Cycle, a Colorado-based recycling nonprofit that partnered with Cress' campaign, trusts his statistic. If anything, said Eco-Cycle communications director Harlin Savage, 500 million straws per day could be too low. And if anyone has come up with a different figure, Savage  — plus a lot of other people, she said —  would like to see it.” “The number this fourth grader came up with in 2011, as part of a personal environmental conservation campaign, has proved surprisingly durable, working its way to the heart of the debate over plastic straws.” NY Times.

The exact number of plastic straws that Americans use daily is debatable. However, the fact remains that we use too much plastic, plastic that is polluting our environment, accumulating in our oceans, and harming marine life. Milo Cress should not be attacked by those who deny these facts, but should be applauded for drawing our attention to the plight of our planet. Most of us can easily do without plastic straws without drastically changing our behavior. Isn't a tiny sacrifice such as living without plastic straws worthwhile if our environment can benefit? Why are some so selfish that they can't consider the “greater good”? How have we come to this?

It's really funny (ironic) that Cress' estimate of plastic straw usage is attacked by a minority because it is not published in a reliable, peer-reviewed scientific journals. Global climate change, its causes and effects have been widely studied and published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Yet, many of those who disparage Cress still refuse to believe the scientists who warn us about climate change. Acknowledging climate change and the issues of plastic straws involves admitting a major problem that requires a change in our behavior to help protect and preserve our planet.

Just stop and think for a second.  Based on the population of the US this article says that every man  woman  child and baby would need to us almost  one and a half straws a day.  I do not use one a week and most people that I know do not use many either.   Just more FAKE NEWS.

[JPR]

3 hours ago, clo said:

I frequently see the attitude of if you can't solve the problem - whatever that problem is - then you don't need to do anything.

 

That’s not what Bjorn Lomborg is advising. He advocates for thoughtful solutions that clearly do more good than harm.

 

But it is better to do nothing than implement wrong-headed feel-good policies that do more harm than good due to anticipated consequences.

[ORV]

Somebody tell me again how that ignore feature works. 😣

[GeezerCouple]

1 minute ago, ORV said:

Somebody tell me again how that ignore feature works. 😣

 

Let your curser hover over the name of the poster (on the left side of posts.

At the bottom of the popup...  just click on "ignore user" 

 

GC

[Cruise Junky]

10 hours ago, JPR said:

Cruise Junky:

 

 

That’s obvious: Starbucks’ new “sipee” plastic lids are intended for customers to drink from instead of straws (which you have to request) but unlike straws are not protected by sanitary paper or other coverings when used and are placed directly on the cups by baristas with their bare hands (they do not wear disposable gloves or any sanitary gloves). Straws are generally served encased in sanitary paper.

 

California similarly banned free plastic bags in grocery stores; now you have to pay for them or bring your own reusable bag, which unless washed after each use are also unsanitary.

 

Also, some seriously impaired people need reliable straws to drink from for safety reasons, and metal straws can be dangerous.

 

The banning or restricting of plastic straws was an all-too-easy “feel good” action (and a first step on the road to banning all plastic) that was never thought through logically and scientifically. There’s no problem with requiring that customers request them rather than just handing them out with each drink. 

 

Oceania should at a minimum replace them with the new bamboo straws that actually work well. But note that they are a bit more expensive, so for now we will need to bring our own plastic or reusable straws.

I didn’t ask about straws, I asked about the sippy cup lids vs regular coffee lids. 

[JPR]

You weren’t clear, but I believe I answered your question.

 

The Starbucks sippee cup tops are intended to supplant straws for cold drinks. My point was that they are unsanitary compared to sanitary straws, which are encased in paper and thus not handled by anyone but you. Hot coffee presumably kills all or most bacteria, but if you drink directly through any top that has been placed by uncovered hands, it’s a risk.

[clo]

15 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

I didn’t ask about straws, I asked about the sippy cup lids vs regular coffee lids. 

S/he likes to answer what s/he likes to answer.

 

Plus as far as "germs" (and I'm the antithesis of one!) what about the dang cups?  Can't they have 'cooties'?

 

BTW @JPR in Seattle you don't even have the option of paying for a plastic bag.  You can pay a nickel for a paper one.  What we've found, wherever we go, is that if we forget our bags we just carry/roll stuff out to the car.  Changing old habits isn't the end of the world.  Promise.

[Cruise Junky]

50 minutes ago, JPR said:

You weren’t clear, but I believe I answered your question.

 

The Starbucks sippee cup tops are intended to supplant straws for cold drinks. My point was that they are unsanitary compared to sanitary straws, which are encased in paper and thus not handled by anyone but you. Hot coffee presumably kills all or most bacteria, but if you drink directly through any top that has been placed by uncovered hands, it’s a risk.

If you find this question not clear I think the issue may be with you...

 

“Why are the plastic lids more unsanitary than the normal plastic coffee lids? “

 

 

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Hot coffee presumably kills all or most bacteria,

I did a quick search and it seems that hot coffee doesn't kill bacteria.  Oh, @JPR, that's directed to you.  

[TrulyBlonde]

44 minutes ago, clo said:

S/he likes to answer what s/he likes to answer.

 

Plus as far as "germs" (and I'm the antithesis of one!) what about the dang cups?  Can't they have 'cooties'?

 

BTW @JPR in Seattle you don't even have the option of paying for a plastic bag.  You can pay a nickel for a paper one.  What we've found, wherever we go, is that if we forget our bags we just carry/roll stuff out to the car.  Changing old habits isn't the end of the world.  Promise.

How do you plan on carrying back your Leftovers into your cabin?  In your green plastic doggie bag or will you just hand hold that tasty treat while roaming the hallways?

[clo]

5 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

How do you plan on carrying back your Leftovers into your cabin?  In your green plastic doggie bag or will you just hand hold that tasty treat while roaming the hallways?

"Bless your heart."  In the most sincere Southern way. LOL heartily.

[JPR]

37 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

If you find this question not clear I think the issue may be with you...

 

“Why are the plastic lids more unsanitary than the normal plastic coffee lids? “

 

 

 

I never said they were. They are both unsanitary. I do not drink though either.

 

I said that Starbucks’ sippy tops, which were intended to replace straws for COLD DRINKS, are not sanitary for that purpose compared with sanitary straws because Starbucks’ employees place those tops on your plastic cup with their bare hands. That’s obvious. What is not clear about that?

[clo]

12 minutes ago, JPR said:

 

 

I never said they were. They are both unsanitary. I do not drink though either.

 

I said that Starbucks’ sippy tops, which were intended to replace straws for COLD DRINKS, are not sanitary for that purpose compared with sanitary straws because Starbucks’ employees place those tops on your plastic cup with their bare hands. That’s obvious. What is not clear about that?

"I did a quick search and it seems that hot coffee doesn't kill bacteria.  Oh, @JPR, that's directed to you. "

 

You're worried about the tops or straws but the not the container itself.  Oh, come on.  What drives you?