Cigarette smokers on cruise ships

[navybankerteacher]

Smoking has been steadily declining since the mid 1960’s when health warnings were required on packs and TV advertising stopped.  In 2000 about 23% of US adults still smoked;  in 2005 it had dropped to just above 20%;  by 2016 the rate had fallen to just over 15%.

 

At what point do you feel mass market lines will decide they have more to gain from accommodating non-smokers than they will lose by turning away smokers?

 

As long as non-smokers do not care, the lines will probably not want to turn away as much as 10% if potential market;  but if smokers drop to about 5%, it is very likely that a greater number of non-smokers will see it as a make-or-break matter — and will avoid ships which permit any smoking.

 

At what percentage do you think that tipping  point is likely to occur?

[SantaFeFan]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Smoking has been steadily declining since the mid 1960’s when health warnings were required on packs and TV advertising stopped.  In 2000 about 23% of US adults still smoked;  in 2005 it had dropped to just above 20%;  by 2016 the rate had fallen to just over 15%.

 

At what point do you feel mass market lines will decide they have more to gain from accommodating non-smokers than they will lose by turning away smokers?

 

As long as non-smokers do not care, the lines will probably not want to turn away as much as 10% if potential market;  but if smokers drop to about 5%, it is very likely that a greater number of non-smokers will see it as a make-or-break matter — and will avoid ships which permit any smoking.

 

At what percentage do you think that tipping  point is likely to occur?

 

My wife and I have never smoked and we both hate the stench it creates. Still, as long as our stateroom neighbors don't break the current rules and smoke on their balconies, I have no problem with the policies most cruise lines already have in place. Smoking areas are easy to avoid, and doing so doesn't take away anything from our cruise experiences.  My favorite is Celebrity with no smoking anywhere inside, including the casino. But, since my wife and I don't gamble, it is quite easy to avoid smoky casinos on lines that still allow smoking there. 

 

So, my answer is: There is no need for that tipping point you are looking for. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[dogs4fun]

This is always a hot button topic.

I also have no problem with the policies already in place. No idea what a tipping point would be as most of the cruisers that I know are not concerned with the smoking habits of their fellow passengers (so long as the rules are followed and said smoke does not affect them).

I do wonder about the uptick in nicotine use among the young (i.e., e-cigarettes, vaping) and whether or not we will see more smokers in the next 10 years or so.

[iancal]

We do not smoke.  We are very seldom bothered by smokers.  The one exception is on shipboard casinos that permit smoking.  It is not just the casino either, the smoke permeates other areas.

 

If we are on a ship that allows smoking in casinos we do not bother patronizing the casino.   On a few occasions our choice of ship was narrowed down to two which we felt were equal.   We selected the ship with, from our perspective, had a stricter smoking policy.  At that time it meant selecting a Celebrity and later a Princess cruise instead of a HAL product.

 

  I feel sorry for any staff member who has to work in a smoke filled environment such as a casino.  It is one thing to spend a few moments in one, quite another to be there for hours on end.  Our feeling is that cruise lines that were ahead of the curve on this policy were rewarded.  Those with an older clientele may may not have felt any immediate business impact but certainly the public perception of the cruise line by future cruisers may have been impacted.  

Edited April 10, 2019 by iancal

[navybankerteacher]

My primary concern (on most ships) involves the casino (and nearby areas) which are most strongly impacted.  I suppose if casino earnings were more significant, that break point might come sooner— but perhaps committed smokers are the biggest losers in casinos - making them more welcome.

[Flatbush Flyer]

As long as cruise lines continue to hire crew from countries where smoking, despite its health hazards, is still widespread, a total ban is unlikely. Still, we can remain hopeful.

[Toofarfromthesea]

I think that it is great that Celebrity and it's no smoking policy is there for people who are highly sensitive.  I doubt that it gives them much competitive advantage, though, because a lot of people are bothered, to a lesser level, but are essentially OK with the accomodations that the other lines use.  They aren't as 'good' as no smoking at all, like Celeb., but they are good enough that only the most sensitive will have it affect their booking decision.  It is also nice that smokers can cruise.

[dkjretired]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

My primary concern (on most ships) involves the casino (and nearby areas) which are most strongly impacted.  I suppose if casino earnings were more significant, that break point might come sooner— but perhaps committed smokers are the biggest losers in casinos - making them more welcome.

 

If you go to a lot of Land based Casinos you will find that large majority of high limit areas are always smoking areas. The high rollers appear to be the smokers. I had this confirmed by a few hosts that I came to know at various casinos. It’s like a given to casino boses.

[navybankerteacher]

21 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

 

If you go to a lot of Land based Casinos you will find that large majority of high limit areas are always smoking areas. The high rollers appear to be the smokers. I had this confirmed by a few hosts that I came to know at various casinos. It’s like a given to casino boses.

 Interesting statistic - does it indicate a link between gambling for chips and with ones health?  

 

Or does it show a common carelessness:  with one’s health by smoking and with one’s assets by gambling - because casinos almost always come out ahead in the long run, which means that the more you gamble the more you are likely to lose. 

[leaveitallbehind]

29 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I think that it is great that Celebrity and it's no smoking policy is there for people who are highly sensitive.  I doubt that it gives them much competitive advantage, though, because a lot of people are bothered, to a lesser level, but are essentially OK with the accomodations that the other lines use.  They aren't as 'good' as no smoking at all, like Celeb., but they are good enough that only the most sensitive will have it affect their booking decision.  It is also nice that smokers can cruise.

 

If you are saying that Celebrity does not allow smoking at all, you are incorrect.  To be clear, Celebrity does allow smoking on certain designated outside deck areas - which are the only areas on board where it is permitted.  They are one of the few cruise lines, however, that don't allow it in their casinos.

[Nic6318]

Hi

 

Don't forget, you are looking at U.S. statistics. As mentioned, if smoking were more restricted by a given cruise line, they might find it harder to find employees. This brings up the unfortunate fact that smoking rates haven't dropped as significantly in other parts of the word. 

 

Even if the numbers are low on this continent, you have to still figure that if someone is married to one of those smokers, they too will only go where their spouse can smoke. 

 

I think until another cruise line gives it a try, like it was tried in the past, it would hard for the thought to be brought up again to completely ban cigarette smoking on a cruise ship. I don't know what % it would have to be, but I think you will see this happen when you can't find cigarettes sold in stores anymore, because it is not profitable. 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

30 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

If you are saying that Celebrity does not allow smoking at all, you are incorrect.  To be clear, Celebrity does allow smoking on certain designated outside deck areas - which are the only areas on board where it is permitted.  They are one of the few cruise lines, however, that don't allow it in their casinos.

Oceania - one small corner of the pool deck and a glass enclosed nook in the corner of the Horizons Bar.

[klfrodo]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Smoking has been steadily declining since the mid 1960’s when health warnings were required on packs and TV advertising stopped.  In 2000 about 23% of US adults still smoked;  in 2005 it had dropped to just above 20%;  by 2016 the rate had fallen to just over 15%.

 

At what point do you feel mass market lines will decide they have more to gain from accommodating non-smokers than they will lose by turning away smokers?

 

As long as non-smokers do not care, the lines will probably not want to turn away as much as 10% if potential market;  but if smokers drop to about 5%, it is very likely that a greater number of non-smokers will see it as a make-or-break matter — and will avoid ships which permit any smoking.

 

At what percentage do you think that tipping  point is likely to occur?

It will happen some day. Probably long after you and I are gone.

 

I smoked for over 30 years. Trying to quit has been the hardest thing Ive ever done.

Patches, meds, everything. Quit for 6 mos and the monkey starts screaming at me. Smoke for a month, get disqusted with myself and quit again. Then the monkey. It’s a never ending nightmare. 

 

[evandbob]

58 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Interesting statistic - does it indicate a link between gambling for chips and with ones health?  

 

Or does it show a common carelessness:  with one’s health by smoking and with one’s assets by gambling - because casinos almost always come out ahead in the long run, which means that the more you gamble the more you are likely to lose. 

 

The link between heavy gamblers and smoking is due to the stimulation of the same brain pleasure centers that these activities impact.

 

Smoking and drinking are in the same category and affect the same area of the brain.  Now a drinking, smoking, and who knows what gambler has an over stimulated brain.☠️

[cruisemom42]

I am fine with the current limitations and see no need for further reductions.

 

I've never smoked but also am not a gambler.

[navybankerteacher]

26 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 

The link between heavy gamblers and smoking is due to the stimulation of the same brain pleasure centers that these activities impact.

 

Smoking and drinking are in the same category and affect the same area of the brain.  Now a drinking, smoking, and who knows what gambler has an over stimulated brain.☠️

I’ve read that smoking is one of the hardest habits to quit - and believe it. I smoked over a pack a day for more than twenty years before I was finally able to kick it - I still feel tempted,  and for that reason hate the smell of smoke:  probably a good thing because it keeps me out of casinos - thereby saving me money.

[Joebucks]

I don't smoke other than the occasional cigar in the designated area. I'd rather they figure out a better way to keep the casinos clean. I can go to nice casinos in Vegas that allow smoking, and never know that people smoked there. 

 

These convos almost always lecture on the dangers of smoking. Meanwhile, obesity/diabetes kill far more people and there are fewer food patrols. 

[lisiamc]

7 hours ago, Joebucks said:

I don't smoke other than the occasional cigar in the designated area. I'd rather they figure out a better way to keep the casinos clean. I can go to nice casinos in Vegas that allow smoking, and never know that people smoked there. 

 

These convos almost always lecture on the dangers of smoking. Meanwhile, obesity/diabetes kill far more people and there are fewer food patrols. 

 

I’ve read about dangers from second-hand smoke, but never from second-hand diabetes or obesity.

[DirtyDawg]

I hope, selfishly, that the cruise lines just keep their smoking policies as is. No, neither of us smoke. In fact, Mrs. Dawg is highly sensitive to smoke. On all our cruises on Royal, Carnival and Norwegian she wouldn’t venture anywhere near their casinos. When we found Celebrity and their 'fresh air' casinos, she was in heaven! 😍

 

Our bank balance on the other hand ......... 😭

 

I build that cost into our pricing comparisons now.

 

So, cruise lines, PLEASE, I'm begging you, keep your smoky casinos, and let me keep my Sir Robert Borden's. 

 

 

 

(He's the face on our $100 bill)

Edited April 11, 2019 by DirtyDawg

[beachbum53]

Smoking versus not smoking on cruise ships will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. Health issues aside, I don't foresee any cruise line banning smoking on their entire fleet. That would mean eliminating a source of revenue, just as banning alcohol on all cruises would eliminate those who drink alcohol so as to make non-drinkers more comfortable, or eliminating casinos so that those with a gambling problem can enjoy cruising without being tempted. When Carnival's Paradise first started sailing, it was a smoke-free ship. But it didn't take long for Carnival to realize there weren't enough non-smokers to keep the ship filled to capacity week after week. Much to the chagrin of non-smokers, after Carnival realized they were losing money by excluding  smokers from the Paradise, the decision was made to allow smoking on the ship.

[leaveitallbehind]

28 minutes ago, beachbum53 said:

When Carnival's Paradise first started sailing, it was a smoke-free ship. But it didn't take long for Carnival to realize there weren't enough non-smokers to keep the ship filled to capacity week after week. Much to the chagrin of non-smokers, after Carnival realized they were losing money by excluding  smokers from the Paradise, the decision was made to allow smoking on the ship.

 

Just curious what your source of information is to support this statement?  Not disagreeing - just curious where your facts are coming from.

[beachbum53]

14 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Just curious what your source of information is to support this statement?  Not disagreeing - just curious where your facts are coming from.

 

It's based on something I read several years, but I don't remember the exact web site where I saw it. I have no reason to doubt the article, since it seems perfectly logical to me. 

[sanger727]

The fact that you are glossing over is you are quoting US smoking statistics. In many countries smoking rates are much higher. Which US customers may be the majority on Caribbean cruises; when you look globally at all the markets and itineraries that a line serves, they can’t afford to alienate smokers. I can’t stand the smell of cigarettes and hate being around people smoking. However, generally it’s onlt permitted in the casino and designated areas on the deck. I don’t gamble so avoid the casino smoke only bothers me when I have to walk through it and the deck areas are generally not difficult to avoid. While I would welcome a non smoking cruise or cruise line, the current policies don’t bother me. I’m much more bothered when I go somewhere where smoking is permitted on a restaurant patio. The smell is so over powering I can’t even taste my food.

[lisiamc]

1 hour ago, beachbum53 said:

Smoking versus not smoking on cruise ships will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. Health issues aside, I don't foresee any cruise line banning smoking on their entire fleet. That would mean eliminating a source of revenue, just as banning alcohol on all cruises would eliminate those who drink alcohol so as to make non-drinkers more comfortable, or eliminating casinos so that those with a gambling problem can enjoy cruising without being tempted. When Carnival's Paradise first started sailing, it was a smoke-free ship. But it didn't take long for Carnival to realize there weren't enough non-smokers to keep the ship filled to capacity week after week. Much to the chagrin of non-smokers, after Carnival realized they were losing money by excluding  smokers from the Paradise, the decision was made to allow smoking on the ship.

 

At least two lines, Celebrity and Azamara, have banned all indoor smoking.  And several lines, including Azamara, Disney, Ponant, and (I think) Viking have no casinos, not specifically to make ex-gamblers more comfortable, but because their passengers have little interest in a casino.

Edited April 11, 2019 by lisiamc

[Cru1s1ng2009]

10 hours ago, klfrodo said:

It will happen some day. Probably long after you and I are gone.

 

I smoked for over 30 years. Trying to quit has been the hardest thing Ive ever done.

Patches, meds, everything. Quit for 6 mos and the monkey starts screaming at me. Smoke for a month, get disqusted with myself and quit again. Then the monkey. It’s a never ending nightmare. 

 

it is so hard to quit. I finally did it 2 years ago but now I am addicted to nicotine lozenges. And the sad thing is they are more expensive than cigarettes, LOL! but I can breathe good and don't stink anymore. My mom still smokes and I don't even want one when she smokes, it just smells so bad to me.

I do still enjoy the occasional cigar and REALLY enjoy having one in the evening on the promenade deck on board.