Why Doesn't Princess/CCL Buy a River Cruise Line?

[crawford]

It would seem to make sense to me that buying a river cruise line would complement the offerings of CCL, whether or not it would be rebranded or not.

 

Not sure how successful Viking has been delving into ocean cruises.

 

Thoughts? 

[JF - retired RRT]

Interesting idea. 

[Coral]

Crystal did this - well, they are in Ocean and started a new river boat line. They started small and I am sure there has been an learning curve for them. They carried a lot from their ocean brand to their river boat line. I think they did a great job. Viking did the opposite - they were in River boats and started Ocean ships.

 

River cruising is a completely different beast. They have different challenges (high rivers, low rivers) and a different onboard experience (included drinks, included excursions, etc...).

 

With Princess's cutting costs which seems like weekly, I would hate to see Jan Swartz in charge of a Princess river boat line. Besides - many of CCL lines are all about going bigger and including less.

 

For those who haven't experienced river cruising - I strongly encourage it. I love having 150 people on a ship.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Coral

[Coral]

17 minutes ago, crawford said:

It would seem to make sense to me that buying a river cruise line would complement the offerings of CCL, whether or not it would be rebranded or not.

 

Not sure how successful Viking has been delving into ocean cruises.

 

Thoughts? 

Viking has been extremely successful going into ocean cruises. I think the size of their ship allows for a lot of variety. It also gives an avenue for those who have gone on river cruises to feel comfortable going on their ocean trips.

[Thrak]

We hope to do a river cruise one day. Not only in Europe but possibly a Mississippi river cruise.

[neverbeenhere]

Viking being private companies, we are not privy to much financial information other than their apparent planned expansion.  A whole variety of financial and logistical metrics might be holding CCL back. 

 

On the surface, it seems a river line acquisition makes sense, but who knows. 

[skynight]

Lots of competition, and a very different product. 

[Coral]

6 minutes ago, neverbeenhere said:

Viking being private companies, we are not privy to much financial information other than their apparent planned expansion.  

Considering many of their ships fill up a year in advance, people are making full payment at time of booking and they are paying cash for their new boats/ships - yea, they are doing well.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Coral

[neverbeenhere]

I maybe incorrect but I believe they are using bond placements to fund their expansion. 

[antsp]

With rivers being so narrow, surely people would notice them dumpling trash overboard, harder to spot in the ocean 

[DrivesLikeMario]

My guess?  Because the river cruise market is incredibly over-saturated?  Now, many of the river cruise ships are sailing with empty cabins whereas just a couple years ago, they were selling out very far in advance with waiting lists.

[silversneakers]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

We hope to do a river cruise one day. Not only in Europe but possibly a Mississippi river cruise.

We also hope to do Mississippi river cruise.  Hope Viking will announce their US river cruises soon.  See you on the Emerald!

[c-boy]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

We hope to do a river cruise one day. Not only in Europe but possibly a Mississippi river cruise.

they are wonderful.

[Coral]

 

9 minutes ago, silversneakers said:

We also hope to do Mississippi river cruise.  Hope Viking will announce their US river cruises soon.  See you on the Emerald!

 

Have you looked at American Cruise Lines? A friend has done a few and loves them. Sort of a different line......

[capriccio]

We've done 3 (Budapest to Amsterdam, Seine, and the Rhone) on Uniworld. That's a definite splurge over our usual ocean cruises on Princess but we found the experience so enjoyable and different from ocean cruising that we are thinking the Nile and the Douro in the near future.  We are also doing a New Orleans to Memphis river cruise on American Queen Steamboat Company with Road Scholar this fall.   Havig said that, I would prefer Princess devote its energies to its current fleet, itineraries, and passengers.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, crawford said:

It would seem to make sense to me that buying a river cruise line would complement the offerings of CCL, whether or not it would be rebranded or not.

 

Not sure how successful Viking has been delving into ocean cruises.

 

Thoughts? 

While Viking may have started as a river cruise line in 1997, the owner (Torstein Hagen) had extensive executive experience with upscale ocean cruises. He was CEO of Royal Viking Line in late 70's and 80's he turned the company around by increasing the size of each of the original 3 ships. Prior to Royal Viking Line, I believe he was also CEO of HAL.

 

Viking Ocean is very successful, with another 10 ships on order and many cruises fully booked, a year or more in advance. In the small ship market they are rated # 1 by many agencies & publications.

 

Biggest deterrent to Carnvival getting into river cruising is those darn bridges and size of the locks. They couldn't built the ships big enough.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Heidi13

[Roz]

2 hours ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

My guess?  Because the river cruise market is incredibly over-saturated?  Now, many of the river cruise ships are sailing with empty cabins whereas just a couple years ago, they were selling out very far in advance with waiting lists.

 

How do you know this?  And if this is the case, why aren't river cruise prices dropping? 

 

Roz

[GUT2407]

Might as well by an airline and a few all inclusive resorts while they’re at it.

[DrivesLikeMario]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

 

How do you know this?  And if this is the case, why aren't river cruise prices dropping? 

 

Roz

I've been monitoring the river cruise sales for years.  Prices have been dropping especially for last-minute cruises.  There are many ships this summer that still aren't sold out.  It's not like it was 2-4 years ago.  It's becoming saturated.  There's still a lot of sold cabins and particular routes still sell out, but they aren't flying off the shelves like they were.

[crawford]

17 minutes ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

I've been monitoring the river cruise sales for years.  Prices have been dropping especially for last-minute cruises.  There are many ships this summer that still aren't sold out.  It's not like it was 2-4 years ago.  It's becoming saturated.  There's still a lot of sold cabins and particular routes still sell out, but they aren't flying off the shelves like they were.

Maybe I'll need to pay closer attention. Prices pretty much kept me out of the market.

[crawford]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

While Viking may have started as a river cruise line in 1997, the owner (Torstein Hagen) had extensive executive experience with upscale ocean cruises. He was CEO of Royal Viking Line in late 70's and 80's he turned the company around by increasing the size of each of the original 3 ships. Prior to Royal Viking Line, I believe he was also CEO of HAL.

 

Viking Ocean is very successful, with another 10 ships on order and many cruises fully booked, a year or more in advance. In the small ship market they are rated # 1 by many agencies & publications.

 

Biggest deterrent to Carnvival getting into river cruising is those darn bridges and size of the locks. They couldn't built the ships big enough.

Acquisition would seem to be the best option, for the right price.

[Roz]

10 hours ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

I've been monitoring the river cruise sales for years.  Prices have been dropping especially for last-minute cruises.  There are many ships this summer that still aren't sold out.  It's not like it was 2-4 years ago.  It's becoming saturated.  There's still a lot of sold cabins and particular routes still sell out, but they aren't flying off the shelves like they were.

 

I think it's 2 factors - last year was a bad year in terms of river levels, and lots of potential river cruisers are put off by the potential for their river trip to become and a bus trip; and the saturation point you already mentioned.  Viking in particular is bringing on ships 10 at a time, and flooding our mailboxes with sales brochures.

 

Roz

[dogs4fun]

15 hours ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

My guess?  Because the river cruise market is incredibly over-saturated?  

This would be my guess as well.

[LDVinNC]

17 hours ago, Thrak said:

We hope to do a river cruise one day. Not only in Europe but possibly a Mississippi river cruise.

We have traveled on the American Queen several times and have loved it.  In fact we are scheduled to do the full Mississippi, from New Orleans to Minneapolis at the end of this month. We are not sure how the trip will be affected, given the water levels on the river.  Hoping for the best - for our trip and for all the people who are struggling right now.

[Cruzaholic41]

The last thing I want to see Carnival Corp do is buy or create another cruise line. They’re too big as is. The more competition there is, the better off we are as consumers.