Ballet on X, really.

[ipeeinthepool]

42 minutes ago, Oville said:

My guess is the Boston Ballet Company, its members and the paying customers would probably disagree with you.

 

And they would be wrong.   Here's the IRS 990, the most recent year I could find without registering, about 46% of their $35M budget comes from grants and contributions.  I'm not arguing if it's worth it or not, but the point is that the people that buy tickets (and other revenue) only pay about 54% of their budget.

 

[Turtles06]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I doubt that Celebrity is supplementing the entertainment budget to add the ballet.  I suspect that there is less money for the other types of entertainment or perhaps they have eliminated options on the ballet sailings. Perhaps I'm wrong, do the ballet sailings seem to be sailing at a premium compared to similar Celebrity cruises?

 

We board the Summit tomorrow; ABT is scheduled for our cruise according to X’s website. This was a pleasant surprise to us. And I doubt the cruise will be lacking in the usual mix of production shows, comics, jugglers and the like, too many of which are mediocre and in any event come out of the same toolkit, and so if you’ve cruised before, it’s all pretty familiar. 

 

I’m surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has. If you don’t want to see ballet on a ship, don’t go, it’s as simple as that.  And if you think X has made a mistake, of course you can take it up with LLP.  

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

 

We board the Summit tomorrow; ABT is scheduled for our cruise according to X’s website. This was a pleasant surprise to us. And I doubt the cruise will be lacking in the usual mix of production shows, comics, jugglers and the like, too many of which are mediocre and in any event come out of the same toolkit, and so if you’ve cruised before, it’s all pretty familiar. 

 

I’m surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has. If you don’t want to see ballet on a ship, don’t go, it’s as simple as that.  And if you think X has made a mistake, of course you can take it up with LLP.  

 

Enjoy your cruise

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

 I'm sure it's about quality.  But I'm not sure how long the Russian Ballet is in Boston or even if the market in Boston can support the ballet more than a few weeks a year.  Is the touring troupe at sea the major league or is it like watching minor league baseball.  I'm also not sure if the Russian Ballet really has to make a profit.  

 

But if you like ballet that's great, I'm just not convinced it's a major draw for a large market.  Even the sophisticated Celebrity cruisers. 😉 No need to attack me or anyone else that would rather see Celebrity contract other entertainment options. 

It is not about "attacking" anti-ballet folks but just criticizing folks who refuse to graciously accept some variety.  I have been on ships with decent jazz groups and heard folks critical because they "hate jazz."  Been on ships that book a country performer and heard folks talking about how they "hate country."  HAL tried to be innovative (very rare for HAL) when they organized "BB King" groups.  But many of their cruisers would rather hear a organ-like keyboard playing Glenn Miller music like you might hear in an old roller rink!   Many of us have heard the usual Broadway and Movie music-based shows for decades.  But as soon as a few cruise lines (including Celebrity) tried to do Production Shows with original or less known music we heard lots of grumbling.  Even my own DW would rather hear "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"  20 times then have to put up with something she has never heard.  And if I have to listen to one more rendition of Nessun Dorma even I might scream (there is more to opera then Nessun Dorma).  

 

It is true that classical things like ballet and opera are not the norm for most folks.  But part of the fun of cruising is that you can be exposed to that kind of thing without having to pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket (if you can get a ticket).  If you want to stick to "major draws" I suppose we will have to watch/listen to "gangsta rap" on our cruises.  And yes, even as a senior I am open to rap..although I consider it more like radical poetry then music.

 

Hank

P.S.  What on earth made you think that most Celebrity cruisers are sophisticated :). Have you been drinking some of that X Kool Aid?

[Oville]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

And they would be wrong.   Here's the IRS 990, the most recent year I could find without registering, about 46% of their $35M budget comes from grants and contributions.  I'm not arguing if it's worth it or not, but the point is that the people that buy tickets (and other revenue) only pay about 54% of their budget.

 

You’ve totally missed my point.  Your original quote:

 

“But I'm not sure how long the Russian Ballet is in Boston or even if the market in Boston can support the ballet more than a few weeks a year.”

 

Boston supports the Fine Arts including ballet year round and fortunately that includes donors contributions.  

 

 

 

[ipeeinthepool]

5 minutes ago, Oville said:

You’ve totally missed my point.  Your original quote:

 

“But I'm not sure how long the Russian Ballet is in Boston or even if the market in Boston can support the ballet more than a few weeks a year.”

 

Boston supports the Fine Arts including ballet year round and fortunately that includes donors contributions.  

 

 

 

 

You've totally missed the point.  The people who say the enjoy ballet don't pay enough to support ballet.  If you need to rely on government grants and private contributions you really don't have a large enough base.  Sure those grants and contributions are useful to allow some of the arts to continue to grow but this isn't the same as the ticket buyers paying enough to support ballet.  There just aren't enough people that enjoy ballet to support the product.  If there aren't a lot of people on land then why would anyone think there are enough people at sea to justify the investment?

[Oville]

1 minute ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

You've totally missed the point.  The people who say the enjoy ballet don't pay enough to support ballet.  If you need to rely on government grants and private contributions you really don't have a large enough base.  Sure those grants and contributions are useful to allow some of the arts to continue to grow but this isn't the same as the ticket buyers paying enough to support ballet.  There just aren't enough people that enjoy ballet to support the product.  If there aren't a lot of people on land then why would anyone think there are enough people at sea to justify the investment?

And Pro Sports Stadiums?

[ipeeinthepool]

3 minutes ago, Oville said:

And Pro Sports Stadiums?

 

A little off topic, but since you asked some pro teams do build and run their own stadiums.  Local government subsidies are a little different.  No local government sends a check to the pro sports teams so they can make payroll.   They usually take the form of tax breaks to spur investment in an area.  Sometimes they provide lower interest rate loans but in all instances the objective is to spur growth in the area or to generate income that would not otherwise exist.

[Oville]

5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

A little off topic, but since you asked some pro teams do build and run their own stadiums.  Local government subsidies are a little different.  No local government sends a check to the pro sports teams so they can make payroll.   They usually take the form of tax breaks to spur investment in an area.  Sometimes they provide lower interest rate loans but in all instances the objective is to spur growth in the area or to generate income that would not otherwise exist.

Whatever, I get it, you don’t support the arts.

[GUT2407]

We don’t do many shows while cruising, but Mrs Gut would kill to go on a cruise with Ballet.

[Oville]

37 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

We don’t do many shows while cruising, but Mrs Gut would kill to go on a cruise with Ballet.

It would be a change and ballet can be quite beautiful and it is very athletic.  Two short numbers would a great  introduce to those on Celebrity who have never seen ballot and a nice show for those who really love it.

 

[PTC DAWG]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

It is not about "attacking" anti-ballet folks but just criticizing folks who refuse to graciously accept some variety.  I have been on ships with decent jazz groups and heard folks critical because they "hate jazz."  Been on ships that book a country performer and heard folks talking about how they "hate country."  HAL tried to be innovative (very rare for HAL) when they organized "BB King" groups.  But many of their cruisers would rather hear a organ-like keyboard playing Glenn Miller music like you might hear in an old roller rink!   Many of us have heard the usual Broadway and Movie music-based shows for decades.  But as soon as a few cruise lines (including Celebrity) tried to do Production Shows with original or less known music we heard lots of grumbling.  Even my own DW would rather hear "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"  20 times then have to put up with something she has never heard.  And if I have to listen to one more rendition of Nessun Dorma even I might scream (there is more to opera then Nessun Dorma).  

 

It is true that classical things like ballet and opera are not the norm for most folks.  But part of the fun of cruising is that you can be exposed to that kind of thing without having to pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket (if you can get a ticket).  If you want to stick to "major draws" I suppose we will have to watch/listen to "gangsta rap" on our cruises.  And yes, even as a senior I am open to rap..although I consider it more like radical poetry then music.

 

Hank

P.S.  What on earth made you think that most Celebrity cruisers are sophisticated :). Have you been drinking some of that X Kool Aid?

Well said..

[hcat]

8 hours ago, Oville said:

And Pro Sports Stadiums?

You beat me to that reply...

Anyhow, Can't wait to hear some reviews and maybe experience it in the shop some time.  Seeing a few vignettes would be great!

[hcat]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

It is not about "attacking" anti-ballet folks but just criticizing folks who refuse to graciously accept some variety.  I have been on ships with decent jazz groups and heard folks critical because they "hate jazz."  Been on ships that book a country performer and heard folks talking about how they "hate country."  HAL tried to be innovative (very rare for HAL) when they organized "BB King" groups.  But many of their cruisers would rather hear a organ-like keyboard playing Glenn Miller music like you might hear in an old roller rink!   Many of us have heard the usual Broadway and Movie music-based shows for decades.  But as soon as a few cruise lines (including Celebrity) tried to do Production Shows with original or less known music we heard lots of grumbling.  Even my own DW would rather hear "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"  20 times then have to put up with something she has never heard.  And if I have to listen to one more rendition of Nessun Dorma even I might scream (there is more to opera then Nessun Dorma).  

 

It is true that classical things like ballet and opera are not the norm for most folks.  But part of the fun of cruising is that you can be exposed to that kind of thing without having to pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket (if you can get a ticket).  If you want to stick to "major draws" I suppose we will have to watch/listen to "gangsta rap" on our cruises.  And yes, even as a senior I am open to rap..although I consider it more like radical poetry then music.

 

Hank

P.S.  What on earth made you think that most Celebrity cruisers are sophisticated :). Have you been drinking some of that X Kool Aid?

X tried " rap" awhile back..was not all that popular.  I actually slow played some of the words for  the CD on one of our cruises.....highlighting some of the blatant  sexist, mysoginistic and racist  commentary which was offensive.  I get  artistic freedom but not in my face at poolside! There were much   better choices even in that genre but no one pays careful attention to programming these days!

[Tatka]

16 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

 

We board the Summit tomorrow; ABT is scheduled for our cruise according to X’s website. This was a pleasant surprise to us. And I doubt the cruise will be lacking in the usual mix of production shows, comics, jugglers and the like, too many of which are mediocre and in any event come out of the same toolkit, and so if you’ve cruised before, it’s all pretty familiar. 

 

I’m surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has. If you don’t want to see ballet on a ship, don’t go, it’s as simple as that.  And if you think X has made a mistake, of course you can take it up with LLP.  

 

Enjoy!

We just disembarked today.

Great ship as always.

 

I wish we had ballet performance on our sailing.

[Tatka]

14 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

You've totally missed the point.  The people who say the enjoy ballet don't pay enough to support ballet.  If you need to rely on government grants and private contributions you really don't have a large enough base.  Sure those grants and contributions are useful to allow some of the arts to continue to grow but this isn't the same as the ticket buyers paying enough to support ballet.  There just aren't enough people that enjoy ballet to support the product.  If there aren't a lot of people on land then why would anyone think there are enough people at sea to justify the investment?

 

     Support would be much greater if more money was spent to educate people from childhood. Unfortunately priorities for tax spending are very different in our country. 

Oh well.

[hcat]

1 hour ago, Tatka said:

 

     Support would be much greater if more money was spent to educate people from childhood. Unfortunately priorities for tax spending are very different in our country. 

Oh well.

We do have a thriving art and music curriculum in most schools but its up to the parents to encourage and nurture a love of the arts and education in general.... Heads up from devices would help quite a bit.

 

Happy sailing!

Edited September 8, 2019 by hcat

[bellasorella]

On 8/28/2019 at 9:50 AM, hcat said:

Too bad folks only relate to Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty or Nutcracker (all wonderful)...But there are so many options, styles etc.  And it can be very modern and Edgey too!  Way beyond EDEN .,.,,

 

Getting into Manhattan is challenging for us these days  but during "snowbird season" we  look forward to performances at the Van Wezel...with the Sarasota Orchestra.  We will book Summit or Equinox  sometime for the chance to see the ABT.

Hope it continues...very exciting move by Celebrity!

 

We are moving to Osprey next month, and look forward to seeing many performances at the Van Wezel -- ballet, symphony, and other performers. Went to a few last season and they were great. We have several Celebrity cruises planned for the next two years but none during strict holiday season so hope they expand the ABT program. Thanks for mentioning it, and we will inquire of X which other cruises may host the ABT guest performers. What a great idea!!!

 

 

[hcat]

Good luck on your move..

  The current line up at Van Wezel looks  excellent...We will miss the ones I wanted to see due to cruises and holiday trips home.  You can check online or order the seasons brochure.

 

Btw Van Wezel has  other offerings too...current and " old time "  rock perfomers and groups.   

 

Also lots of music and good dining  in Venice area..

 

Hope X continues branching out in its offerings!

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

On 9/3/2019 at 8:38 PM, cgolf1 said:

For midwesterners, going to a professional show or a museum is a vacation or at minimum a long weekend. Where as people in New York, LA, Chicago (yes in the midwest), have lots of options every day. What we do have though is lots of state and national parks or just city parks. For example we have traveled along the Mississippi river by car looking at locks and dams and different natural areas multiple times in the last 4 years. So I think it is location, location, location.

 

You're a bit behind the times.  Minneapolis has the second best (to NYC) theater district in the country.

[cgolf1]

11 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

You're a bit behind the times.  Minneapolis has the second best (to NYC) theater district in the country.

 

That may be but it is 6 hours away. I haven’t been up there in over 15 years. Stuff is just more spread out in the flyover states:)

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

13 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

That may be but it is 6 hours away. I haven’t been up there in over 15 years. Stuff is just more spread out in the flyover states:)

 

Well you alleged

"For midwesterners, going to a professional show or a museum is a vacation or at minimum a long weekend."

 

So I just thought I'd point out to you that it wasn't necessarily true.  And my guess would be that many midwestern communities have, at the very least, excellent museums.

[cgolf1]

51 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Well you alleged

"For midwesterners, going to a professional show or a museum is a vacation or at minimum a long weekend."

 

So I just thought I'd point out to you that it wasn't necessarily true.  And my guess would be that many midwestern communities have, at the very least, excellent museums.

 

For us that is a long weekend trip with where we live. For those that live in the Twin Cities that of course is different story. We are reasonably close to Chicago and closer to Milwaukee to see some museums. Chicago we generally spent one night in the suburbs and drove into places like Shedds aquarium. Same with places like Milwaukee and Chicago, if you live there plenty is available. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by cgolf1