Cruises To Nowhere

[Bill5333]

Might be a doable alternative for a while. Rather that than be cancelled May 4th to Bermuda but hope is fading.

[not-enough-cruising]

Seriously? 

[LMaxwell]

I have very low confidence in any cruise line to look out for my safety at this point.  

[gatour]

Cruises to nowhere are not allowed.  Has to do with the crews' visas

[Merion_Mom]

Cruises to nowhere violate the PVSA.  

[1025cruise]

9 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

Cruises to nowhere violate the PVSA.  

Nothing to do with the PVSA.

 

Its an immigration decision based on the type of visa the crew members hold. 

[Smiles1984]

Not sure that applies in Europe. I've been on a few from Southampton, they regularly do overnight cruises around the channel to promote new ships.

[rtazz17]

21 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

I have very low confidence in any cruise line to look out for my safety at this point.  

Please stop adding to hysteria. Pointless.......look out for yourself.

[F27TW]

20 minutes ago, rtazz17 said:

Please stop adding to hysteria. Pointless.......look out for yourself.

 

Very true .. lots of theatrics on here nowadays.   

[Zach1213]

Not really...the whole point is to avoid mass groupings of people. Whether a cruise goes to anywhere or nowhere, it's still an incredibly high concentration of people mingling around together. Sort of defeats the purpose. 

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Smiles1984 said:

Not sure that applies in Europe. I've been on a few from Southampton, they regularly do overnight cruises around the channel to promote new ships.

It likely doesn't, this is a US issue based on the visas issued to the crew. 

[shipgeeks]

Well, to get back to the original (theoretical) question:  We would love that.  Being at sea on a moving ship is the best part of the cruise experience.

[Saab4444]

12 hours ago, gatour said:

Cruises to nowhere are not allowed.  Has to do with the crews' visas

Not allowed only in the US indeed. And the reason is not crew visas.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 minute ago, Saab4444 said:

Not allowed only in the US indeed. And the reason is not crew visas.

The reason that cruises to nowhere in the US are not allowed is definitely due to US Visas 

[Saab4444]

16 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

The reason that cruises to nowhere in the US are not allowed is definitely due to US Visas 

It is because foreign flagged vessels always have to stop at a foreign port before returning to the US. A US flagged cruise ship could do cruises to nowhere or only between US ports. US flagged ferries can do it. US flagged cargo ships can do it. Suitable crew visas will be obtained by the shipping company accordingly. And for all cruise ships that just stop at any US port all crew needs US Visa anyway.     

Edited March 17, 2020 by Saab4444

[gatour]

Just now, Saab4444 said:

It is because foreign flagged vessels always have to stop at a foreign port before returning to the US. A US flagged cruise ship could do cruises to nowhere or only between US ports. US flagged ferries can do it. US flagged cargo ships can do it. Suitable crew visas will be obtained by the shipping company accordingly.     

We are talking about foreign flagged ships, and it is because of the visas.  Years ago cruise lines would offer short cruises to nowhere as samplers and sometimes debut a new ship.

 

If remember correctly.  A casino boat here in Florida decided to go the foreign flag route and man the boat with non-US citizens.  This caused the officials to relook at the regulation and do a strict re-interpretation of the rules and regulations.  Hence no more cruise to no-where.

[Anton]

This explains why it's the visas.  It came to a head over the Bimini Superfast casino ship in Florida. https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Customs-says-cruises-to-nowhere-were-never-legal

Edited March 17, 2020 by Anton

[lbjen]

23 hours ago, Bill5333 said:

Might be a doable alternative for a while. Rather that than be cancelled May 4th to Bermuda but hope is fading.

The issue is not that people are bringing back COVID from Caribbean islands. It is that people get on ships while infected and spread it to others, who take it home and spread it. Since so many people apparently can’t bear to not get on a ship, they’ve had no choice but to stop operating. 

[Ourusualbeach]

14 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

It is because foreign flagged vessels always have to stop at a foreign port before returning to the US. A US flagged cruise ship could do cruises to nowhere or only between US ports. US flagged ferries can do it. US flagged cargo ships can do it. Suitable crew visas will be obtained by the shipping company accordingly. And for all cruise ships that just stop at any US port all crew needs US Visa anyway.     

That is a myth that keeps circulating.  Cruises to nowhere were allowed up until 3-4 years ago.  The foreign port stop does not apply as long as it starts and stops in the same port and doesn’t visit anywhere else.  @chengkp75 has spoken about this numerous times. 

[publicpersona]

3 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

Nothing to do with the PVSA.

 

Of course it does. What you are saying regarding immigration may also be true (I know nothing about that), but PVSA specifically applies to this conversation.

 

PVSA has many times in the past been waived in response to unusual circumstances. Would waiving PVSA for a while be part of what we are hearing about helping the cruise industry stay afloat? Maybe. I don't know. Nobody does.

[Ourusualbeach]

6 minutes ago, publicpersona said:

 

Of course it does. What you are saying regarding immigration may also be true (I know nothing about that), but PVSA specifically applies to this conversation.

 

PVSA has many times in the past been waived in response to unusual circumstances. Would waiving PVSA for a while be part of what we are hearing about helping the cruise industry stay afloat? Maybe. I don't know. Nobody does.

It does not.  See my response above and post 17. 

 

As it applies to cruises to nowhere. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[publicpersona]

31 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

It does not.  See my response above and post 17. 

 

As it applies to cruises to nowhere. 

 

The article you point to doesn't say anything about PSVA not being an issue. It says that the cruise lines have been aware of it and always include a nominal stop in another country to comply.

 

The wikipedia page on PVSA says [emphasis added]

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however, does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port, provided the ship visits any foreign port;

 

However, going right to the source, I now find that the wikipedia entry is wrong or misleading. The PVSA includes specific language about a closed-loop cruise that does not visit any U.S. ports at all other than embark/debark:

 

Cruise to Nowhere A “cruise to nowhere” is not considered coastwise transportation. A “cruise to nowhere” is the transportation of passengers from a U.S. point to the high seas or foreign waters and back to the same point from which the passengers embarked, assuming the passengers do not go ashore, even temporarily, at another U.S. point. See 29 O.A.G. 318 (1912).

 

Thus, you are correct.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by publicpersona

[Ourusualbeach]

8 minutes ago, publicpersona said:

 

The article you point to doesn't say anything about PSVA not being an issue. It says that the cruise lines have been aware of it and always include a nominal stop in another country to comply.

 

The wikipedia page on PVSA says [emphasis added]

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however, does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port, provided the ship visits any foreign port;

 

However, going right to the source, I now find that the wikipedia entry is wrong or misleading. The PVSA includes specific language about a closed-loop cruise that does not visit any U.S. ports at all other than embark/debark:

 

Cruise to Nowhere A “cruise to nowhere” is not considered coastwise transportation. A “cruise to nowhere” is the transportation of passengers from a U.S. point to the high seas or foreign waters and back to the same point from which the passengers embarked, assuming the passengers do not go ashore, even temporarily, at another U.S. point. See 29 O.A.G. 318 (1912).

 

Thus, you are correct.

 

 

Thanks for posting the actual link and reference.

[TravelerThom]

39 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

That is a myth that keeps circulating.  Cruises to nowhere were allowed up until 3-4 years ago.  The foreign port stop does not apply as long as it starts and stops in the same port and doesn’t visit anywhere else.  @chengkp75 has spoken about this numerous times. 

chengkp75 is perhaps the most knowledgeable individual on these boards, and I believe what he says. HOWEVER I think you are misinterpreting him if you are implying that mass market cruise ship can cruise to nowhere. 
The ruling against cruises-to-nowhere a few years ago was that since the ship had not visited a foreign port all crew members on such cruises had to be eligible to legally work in the US (ie US citizen, US Green Card holder or holder of a US WORK visa). Clearly this is not the case for any non-US flagged cruise vessel, thereby effectively ending cruises-to-nowhere. 

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, TravelerThom said:

chengkp75 is perhaps the most knowledgeable individual on these boards, and I believe what he says. HOWEVER I think you are misinterpreting him if you are implying that mass market cruise ship can cruise to nowhere. 
The ruling against cruises-to-nowhere a few years ago was that since the ship had not visited a foreign port all crew members on such cruises had to be eligible to legally work in the US (ie US citizen, US Green Card holder or holder of a US WORK visa). Clearly this is not the case for any non-US flagged cruise vessel, thereby effectively ending cruises-to-nowhere. 

I never stated that cruises for nowhere we’re currently  legal.  I was stating the reason why and made reference that in the past they were legal.