Long time before cruising resumes

[clo]

9 minutes ago, drkitkat123 said:

well actually this a coronavirus and more closely related to the common cold which they have never been able to make a vaccine for. So who says an effective vaccine is even close?

I didn't know that so thanks. And why haven't 'they' not been able to make a vaccine for it. Mutates too rapidly?

[ORV]

15 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

Although mortality for MERS was about 34%, the rate for SARS was "only" about 10%.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-sars-swine-flu-mers-zika-2020-3

10% is still high, perhaps I misremembered what I read a day or so ago. Can't remember the source right now. Either way the numbers of mortality for Covid go down with more testing.

[LHT28]

so far it looks like Covid  deaths are under 5%    but much more are infected than SARS

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

Still too many in my book

[AdoraBelle]

http://archive.is/96WyG
 

Cruise lines will be shut out of bailout money due to lack of US workers ...

[1985rz1]

20 minutes ago, ORV said:

10% is still high,... Either way the numbers of mortality for Covid go down with more testing.

Agreed.  But everyone seems to be focused on the mortality rate, which can be misleading when measuring the impact on the world's population.  The infection rate for Covid seems to be much higher with total cases exceeding 523,000 and the total number of deaths exceeding 23,600 as of today.  In these terms Covid has been much more devastating than MERS, SARS or even Ebola.   

 

 

[edgee]

21 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

http://archive.is/96WyG
 

Cruise lines will be shut out of bailout money due to lack of US workers ...

In the short run they will be shut out but when/if they appear to actually be on verge of bankruptcy, political pressure will yield them some financial help, IMHO. 

[Petoonya]

I've an NCL Alaska family reunion cruise 5/17/20 from Seattle . The family reunion has obviously been cancelled. But the bookings are still active as no one wants FCC. We are playing a game of chicken hoping the cruise will be cancelled and a refund given. If some cruise lines return to business May 1, (as someone here suggested but I can't find the post) and our cruise is on, we have all lost our payments. No one will go.

 

I never would have chosen NCL to begin with so especially don't want FCC. I pushed for Oceania despite having a few youngsters in the group.

 

There are numerous reasons the cruise wouldn't proceed anyway. Canada closed, Seattle closed "indefinitely"- who knows if open May 17? Again doubtful that COVID-19 cases would decline enough or a vaccine developed that would allow cruises to proceed. (But I'd gladly lose my payment to see a decline or a vaccine!)

 

NCL could even reroute as a coastal with a stop in Ensenada. I've posted this on the NCL board and the general consensus is who knows? I know y'all best and need some input. I detest NCL but should I quit playing games and take the FCC?

 

 

[LHT28]

3 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

NCL could even reroute as a coastal with a stop in Ensenada. I've posted this on the NCL board and the general consensus is who knows? I know y'all best and need some input. I detest NCL but should I quit playing games and take the FCC?

 

 

Just wait them out 

no one is sailing anyway 

You may still end up with an FCC   but  maybe you can do a family re union  next year

JMO

[Petoonya]

9 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Just wait them out 

no one is sailing anyway 

You may still end up with an FCC   but  maybe you can do a family re union  next year

JMO

Lyn....my concern is that sometime after bloviator's proclamation that April 14 is back to work day, NCL will say full steam ahead. 'Our cruises are on- no more FCC to be offered'. Then I have nothing. It's possible that the pieces could all fall NCL's way. Which I guess answers my own question. Play it a day at a time and take the darn FCC if prospects dim.

?

Edited March 26, 2020 by Petoonya

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, AdoraBelle said:

http://archive.is/96WyG
 

Cruise lines will be shut out of bailout money due to lack of US workers ...

As much as I love cruising and hope to continue to do so in the future, I agree with the above for 2 main reasons mentioned in the article:

1) 

were firmly opposed to including federal assistance to the cruise industry because they don’t employ a unionized American workforce 

2)

All the major cruise operators are incorporated outside the U.S. The companies don’t pay U.S. federal income taxes and most of their cleaning staff, restaurant servers, bartenders and other employees are foreign nationals.

Even the individual ships are typically owned by foreign LLCs and domiciled in low-tax countries such as the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Dominican Republic.

 

They, like airlines, have huge assets in their ships (or planes) and can borrow money at essentially no interest to get back on their feet.

Many of these companies (like airlines) benefited greatly from recent tax cuts but didn't save that money for a rainy day. Instead they bought back stocks and paid out bonuses to execs.

[Paulchili]

56 minutes ago, edgee said:

In the short run they will be shut out but when/if they appear to actually be on verge of bankruptcy, political pressure will yield them some financial help, IMHO. 

I think they'll hide behind Chapter 11.

[LHT28]

23 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Lyn....my concern is that sometime after bloviator's proclamation that April 14 is back to work day, NCL will say full steam ahead. 'Our cruises are on- no more FCC to be offered'. Then I have nothing. It's possible that the pieces could all fall NCL's way. Which I guess answers my own question. Play it a day at a time and take the darn FCC if prospects dim.

?

JMO

 I think  NCLH  & other lines  are just  delaying the cancellations until they are caught up or at least have  a better grasp on the refund/FCC  on the cruises  that have already been cancelled before  adding more to the work load

 

I am just guessing  but somehow  given the increases  in the past few days of cases of positive tests of the virus 

I do not see anyone sailing in the next  several months

Time will tell

[Petoonya]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

JMO

 I think  NCLH  & other lines  are just  delaying the cancellations until they are caught up or at least have  a better grasp on the refund/FCC  on the cruises  that have already been cancelled before  adding more to the work load

 

I am just guessing  but somehow  given the increases  in the past few days of case of positive tests of the virus 

I do not see anyone sailing in the next  several months

Time will tell

Thanks again Lyn.

My TA who's been selling Renaissance/Oceania for over 20 years says that unless a vaccine is developed there may not be cruises till 2021. But again speculation from another source. Positive cases will be the final word.

[Paulchili]

23 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Lyn....my concern is that sometime after bloviator's proclamation that April 14 is back to work day, NCL will say full steam ahead. 'Our cruises are on- no more FCC to be offered'. Then I have nothing. It's possible that the pieces could all fall NCL's way. Which I guess answers my own question. Play it a day at a time and take the darn FCC if prospects dim.

?

I don't see any cruise line sailing on April 14th because the ships would be empty with no place for them to visit. Who in their right mind would board a cruise ship on April 14th?

Stick with it - the cruises will be cancelled and you will get your money back in either FCC or refunds.

I can imagine cruise lines now only offering FCC rather than full refunds as they did previously - much like airlines are doing now - as they will be running out of cash.

 

[Petoonya]

Just now, Paulchili said:

I don't see any cruise line sailing on April 14th because the ships would be empty with no place for them to visit. Who in their right mind would board a cruise ship on April 14th?

Stick with it - the cruises will be cancelled and you will get your money back in either FCC or refunds.

I can imagine cruise lines now only offering FCC rather than full refunds as they did previously - much like airlines are doing now - as they will be running out of cash.

 

Thanks Paul- was hoping to hear from you.

[bbtondo]

10 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

 

Stick with it - the cruises will be cancelled and you will get your money back in either FCC or refunds.

I can imagine cruise lines now only offering FCC rather than full refunds as they did previously - much like airlines are doing now - as they will be running out of cash.

 

Not sure, but doesn't it state in their contract that if O cancels we get a refund?  

[drkitkat123]

7 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

Not sure, but doesn't it state in their contract that if O cancels we get a refund?  

They need actual money to make a refund and they must be running out of it....

[Paulchili]

10 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

Not sure, but doesn't it state in their contract that if O cancels we get a refund?  

Only if they have cash to pay you with 🙂 I don't think that they would borrow money to pay us back.

That was the rule in normal times but today's times are anything but normal - unfortunately.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Paulchili

[bbtondo]

Just now, Paulchili said:

Only if they have cash to pay you with 🙂

That was the rule in normal times but today's times are anything but normal - unfortunately.

 

3 minutes ago, drkitkat123 said:

They need actual money to make a refund and they must be running out of it....

Yes, I realize all of this.  Was just asking what the contract says regarding O canceling and refunds.  

 

I appreciate your feedback.  Wondering how all this will play out.  Let's speculate.  I'll start.  Carnival and NCL are merging.  Or going bankrupt.  Pick one.  LOL

[Petoonya]

3 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

 

Yes, I realize all of this.  Was just asking what the contract says regarding O canceling and refunds.  

 

I appreciate your feedback.  Wondering how all this will play out.  Let's speculate.  I'll start.  Carnival and NCL are merging.  Or going bankrupt.  Pick one.  LOL

Here's from NCL's cruise contract. I'm not really able to decipher but seems about as close as I can find to words that could relate to cancellation of cruise for "any loss whatsoever to Purchaser".

 

3. Cancellations:

In the event of strikes, lockouts, civil disturbances, weather or any other reason beyond its control, or in the interests of the safety and/or comfort of Purchaser or others, Norwegian Cruise Line may, at its sole discretion, cancel any services provided hereunder and may, but is not obligated to, offer substitute hotels or services and shall not be liable for any loss whatsoever to Purchaser by reason of such cancellation or substitution.

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

well actually this a coronavirus and more closely related to the common cold which they have never been able to make a vaccine for. So who says an effective vaccine is even close?

We obviously do not have the answer to this now but in today's briefing Dr. Fauci sounded optimistic about a vaccine - just not sure how soon.

If he is optimistic about the possibility of a vaccine, I am too.

[AdoraBelle]

4 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

We obviously do not have the answer to this now but in today's briefing Dr. Fauci sounded optimistic about a vaccine - just not sure how soon.

If he is optimistic about the possibility of a vaccine, I am too.

There will be a vaccine, just not soon. And there may need to be seasonally updated vaccines like for influenza strains. 

[Paulchili]

10 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Here's from NCL's cruise contract. I'm not really able to decipher but seems about as close as I can find to words that could relate to cancellation of cruise for "any loss whatsoever to Purchaser".

 

3. Cancellations:

In the event of strikes, lockouts, civil disturbances, weather or any other reason beyond its control, or in the interests of the safety and/or comfort of Purchaser or others, Norwegian Cruise Line may, at its sole discretion, cancel any services provided hereunder and may, but is not obligated to, offer substitute hotels or services and shall not be liable for any loss whatsoever to Purchaser by reason of such cancellation or substitution.

This is what I am seeing:

 

Passenger Bill of Rights

The Members of the Cruise Lines International Association are dedicated to the comfort and care of all passengers on oceangoing cruises throughout the world. To fulfill this commitment, our Members have agreed to adopt the following set of passenger rights:

2. The right to a full refund for a trip that is canceled due to mechanical failures, or a partial refund for voyages that are terminated early due to those failures.

 

While this specifically refers to a mechanical failure I wonder if it would apply to cancellations due to COVID?

[bbtondo]

Thanks for the info Paul and Petoonya!

[Petoonya]

Wow! Thanks Paul!!