"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Having taught small kids myself I believe that they would be a lot easier to make comply with distancing rules than any thousand or so of the typical cruise passengers.

 

 

The schoolday starts when I meet my small, 18 kids, group in their cloakroom which is around  90 squarefeet. Difficult to keep distance there.

 

We have separated the  desks as much as possible in the classroom so there is a sidedistance of 1-2 feets between the desks which are shared by two children.

 

During lunch we are around 40 persons sitting very tight in a small room.

 

Some kids can absolutely follow distancing rules but it's not easy when there is no room for it.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Cruise ships, by their nature, ARE crowded places. Certainly the boarding process, muster exercises, tendering, etc. are virtually unavoidably crowded. 

 

Our most recent cruise was from Miami.

 

There was no line during the boarding process and the lounge we waited in before boarding was not crowded. We boarded first in a small group and we could easily have been separated if that had been needed.

 

Muster exercises can be done with social distance if they make smaller groups.

 

If I need to keep a social distance and the cruiseline doesn't have the logistic to handle that on portdays I can stay on the ship.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

The staff you refer to are not the engine room or bridge manners - but the personal service waiters, bar tenders, etc.  whose functions are very difficult to perform from a distance. 

 

 

This is probably the most critical part. Compared to at work I will have to be close to very few persons but they shall handle my food and drinks. I do think that straws, desinfected cutlery and lots of handwashing are things that may help. The cruiseline must have the logistic for it so I can't see why I shall worry about that.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

I cannot help thinking that you might be letting your desire to cruise cloud your judgement.

 

As you can see in my signature I don't cruise very much so the desire to cruise doesn't cloud my judgement.

 

I only say that I can be infected at work so why be afraid to cruise. WHEN THE CRUISELINES ARE READY FOR IT.

[sverigecruiser]

52 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

It's not OK, in my opinion.  Just because it's being done, doesn't mean I think it's smart or kind.

I'm aware of Sweden's atypical plans for dealing with the virus, and I don't think those are smart either......of course, time might show that it was an OK thing to do, but I'm doubtful. 

 

It's also hardly a success, as their infection rates, and death rates, are higher almost all EU countries.  *edit: on a per-capita basis.

 

As you said, time will tell.

 

Some of the "lockdown" countries in Europe are planning to open up a little so we will see what happens.

 

Compared to the worst countries, for example Great Britain, Spain and Italy, and also New York it's not too bad here.

 

I have a sister who lives in Italy and a brother who lives in New York State so I do have another perspective than most Swedes.

 

I must also say that I have no need to defend our strategy because I haven't voted for the government we have! 

[clo]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It's a difference in mentality; read the article. It's an interesting idea that the Swedes trust each other to do the right thing and I find the pragmatic attitude interesting.  Also following the results of how it's being handled there, it has not been the catastrophe some predicted. Could that approach have worked here?  I doubt it. But it's interesting nonetheless.

 

Back on track, I don't believe sverigecruiser has said s/he will not abide by any regulations regarding what should be done aboard ship, merely that wearing a mask is not required in Sweden....  Why should they be singled out for criticism any more than any American who wants to get on the first ships to return to cruising. 

 

It won't be the choice of some of us, but as ldubs said:

 

 

I switched from NYT to WaPo a few years ago so save my precious articles 🙂

 

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

When have I said that I will cruise before the cruiselines are welcoming us back? I have only said that I'm not scared to cruise.

 

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I tend to agree and don't get it.  If the question really is "when this is all over", then I continue to say why not.  

 

Agreed.  Some people really need to take a breath...and a break from this site.  

[iancal]

We will not book a cruise until we feel it is safe to do so, after we are comfortable with the onboard environment, after we have seen a several reviews for those who have cruised post covid, and after we can be certain that that the ports that interest us on an itinerary are open.     

 

Won't be a biggie for us because we we typically buy a cruise within 30-45 days of embarkation so it is not as though we need to even thinking about booking for at lest the next 9 months.

Edited May 10, 2020 by iancal

[clo]

Rather than start a new thread, here's something from yesterday from the AP:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cruise-ship-crew-workers-still-at-sea_n_5eb6c25ec5b64711c0c8b76c?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&section=politics&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR18fUFZWTUrzwrBfEFInsdGHNRgqzykR4o21eDQKPnQrpojTsnwU19ZKuY

[Regcru]

Please hover over name, and Ignore.   Most of CC (95%) on these boards already have.   It’s useless to respond, until everyone ignores, she won’t go away.   They have already said they are not going on cruises, but yet, like in life, you need to turn them off in order for them to understand.   Most other forums already have.   

[Cruzaholic41]

12 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

 

Again, irrelevant to the topic at hand and in your usual negative Nancy style.

Thank you. These people need to go over to the Cruise News board because posting all these stupid articles is not asking a cruise question. 

[jeremyosborne81]

1 minute ago, Regcru said:

Please hover over name, and Ignore.   Most of CC (95%) on these boards already have.   It’s useless to respond, until everyone ignores, she won’t go away.   They have already said they are not going on cruises, but yet, like in life, you need to turn them off in order for them to understand.   Most other forums already have.   

Oh, thank goodness. I was wondering if that function existed on this site.

[Cruzaholic41]

2 minutes ago, Regcru said:

Please hover over name, and Ignore.   Most of CC (95%) on these boards already have.   It’s useless to respond, until everyone ignores, she won’t go away.   They have already said they are not going on cruises, but yet, like in life, you need to turn them off in order for them to understand.   Most other forums already have.   

True. But when someone spends all day every day on this site, I doubt ignoring them will finally turn on a light in their head. Plus, their pedantic posts keep showing when people quote them. 

[rattanchair]

"Will we even know?"  Will we take a chance on the hype, the "safety theatre", the dog and pony show of the new cruise line protocols, every crew member vaccinated,  'new and improved' ship sterilization  (remember noro virus eradication) ?  Suppose all the protocols work,  we are told they work (by the cruise lines, Travel Weekly, and a myriad of travel industry "theatre"). Let us say they do work..miraculously.  Then we have the problem of asymptomatic passengers, the Typhoid Mary types that fly in from all over the world, do they have to have been vaccinated as do we? Does  the vaccine  for this strain of covid good for this year  for next years or is next years strain already here from the far east? Who on these boards are going to be the first 'Guinea pigs". I guess I will be. I am booked for Nov and Dec and March,etc.. unless I keep reading here and 'chicken out'.

[Aquahound]

27 minutes ago, Regcru said:

Please hover over name, and Ignore.   Most of CC (95%) on these boards already have.   It’s useless to respond, until everyone ignores, she won’t go away.   They have already said they are not going on cruises, but yet, like in life, you need to turn them off in order for them to understand.   Most other forums already have.   

 

25 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

Oh, thank goodness. I was wondering if that function existed on this site.

 

23 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

True. But when someone spends all day every day on this site, I doubt ignoring them will finally turn on a light in their head. Plus, their pedantic posts keep showing when people quote them. 

 

Unfortunately, Cruz is right.  Just look at how she finds your posts funny.  Truly bizarre.  I recommend y'all just start reporting her posts to the moderators.   Hopefully it'll lead to a forced time-out.  

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The schoolday starts when I meet my small, 18 kids, group in their cloakroom which is around  90 squarefeet. Difficult to keep distance there.

 

We have separated the  desks as much as possible in the classroom so there is a sidedistance of 1-2 feets between the desks which are shared by two children.

 

During lunch we are around 40 persons sitting very tight in a small room.

 

Some kids can absolutely follow distancing rules but it's not easy when there is no room for it.

DW is an elementary art teacher. Yesterday she was told in a video meeting that when that get back students won't even be able to throw a ball to each other. I thought that was pretty contradictory to articles I had read in the local paper from school athletic directors who were hoping they could restart spring sport if the schools were to reopen this term.

 

I also asked her how would you share crayons between classes. And her reply was I guess they will all have to bring in their own supplies.

 

Unless this whole situation miraculously ends, this is going to be a mess!

[clo]

18 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Unless this whole situation miraculously ends, this is going to be a mess!

Our daughter was telling us that the day camp her four and eight y.o.'s were going to is trying to figure out if they could do a 'virtual' camp. 

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, Regcru said:

Please hover over name, and Ignore.   Most of CC (95%) on these boards already have.   It’s useless to respond, until everyone ignores, she won’t go away.   They have already said they are not going on cruises, but yet, like in life, you need to turn them off in order for them to understand.   Most other forums already have.   

Wait, wait.  What did I do?????   

[getting older slowly]

It will not be over...... until the fat lady sings.....

 

after which  This will all end in tears.....

 

LOL

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

As you said, time will tell.

 

Some of the "lockdown" countries in Europe are planning to open up a little so we will see what happens.

 

Compared to the worst countries, for example Great Britain, Spain and Italy, and also New York it's not too bad here.

 

I have a sister who lives in Italy and a brother who lives in New York State so I do have another perspective than most Swedes.

 

I must also say that I have no need to defend our strategy because I haven't voted for the government we have! 

You should really check your statistics — Sweden’s policy serves as an effective “control” in the experiment on how NOT to address the threat.  Total deaths, as well as rates, dwarf those of their immediate neighbors: Norway and Finland.  And, from available information, their death rate -per population- is close to the highest in the world.

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

It's also hardly a success, as their infection rates, and death rates, are higher almost all EU countries.  *edit: on a per-capita basis.

 

What source are you looking at? 

 

From Worldometers, it appears that Sweden is perhaps just below the middle of the pack when you look at per capita cases and deaths in the EU.  Since identified cases often depends on how much testing was done, I feel the deaths is probably a better comparison -- and in deaths per 1M population, Sweden has fewer than Spain, UK, Italy, France, Belgium, and is about at par with the Netherlands and just slightly above Ireland.

 

Of course what remains to be seen is what happens when some of the countries that took more of a "lock down" approach open up again -- there may be a new spike in their numbers. Take Greece, for example, where containment apparently has worked so well. What happens when people start interacting again?

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by cruisemom42

[calliopecruiser]

35 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

And, from available information, their death rate -per population- is close to the highest in the world.

Hardly, but it is among the top 5 in the EU.......the UK's rate will drop it down a little if you compare it in Europe.  (If I recall it's 4th in the EU, and 7th or 8th in Europe.  Probably doesn't even scratch the top 15 in the world, though. 

 

Of course, it gets muddled because if the country doesn't test the sick, and doesn't test the dead, no one really knows if they've died of Covid or Covid related issues or not.  Really, the best way to tell will be to compare per-capita death rates in the last 2 months (or whatever time period) to death rates in previous years for that same time period.   I'm not sure anyone's looked at that yet on a global scale. 

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What source are you looking at? 

 

From Worldometers, it appears that Sweden is perhaps just below the middle of the pack when you look at per capita cases and deaths in the EU.  Since identified cases often depends on how much testing was done, I feel the deaths is probably a better comparison -- and in deaths per 1M population, Sweden has fewer than Spain, UK, Italy, France, Belgium, and is about at par with the Netherlands and just slightly above Ireland.

 

Of course what remains to be seen is what happens when some of the countries that took more of a "lock down" approach open up again -- there may be a new spike in their numbers. Take Greece, for example, where containment apparently has worked so well. What happens when people start interacting again?

 

 

Sweden isn't a success by any indicator, what fascinates many is their approach.   The death rate among the elder even with their focus on keeping high risk isolated is dismal.

 

The reason there is interest is that their economy has been less impacted then almost every other one that did full lockdown.

 

The question that is debated is positioned as for the economy for the lives saved is a FALSE choice.   All choices lead to the same number of deaths unless a vaccine magical appears or that the virus mutates quickly to something harmless while we are in lock down.

 

Remember lock down was about flattening the curve so when you do get COVID19 the hospitals would have a bed and stuff for you.  Clearly there were stress points for the countries that acted late, but if you look none had to choose between who would live or die, so the really interesting question with lock down is just delaying when you get it and whatever happens as a result but at what cost to cruising, etc....

Edited May 11, 2020 by chipmaster

[clo]

45 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

Remember lock down was about flattening the curve so when you do get COVID19 the hospitals would have a bed and stuff for you. 

I think there's a real tendency to forget that.

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, clo said:

Rather than start a new thread, here's something from yesterday from the AP:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cruise-ship-crew-workers-still-at-sea_n_5eb6c25ec5b64711c0c8b76c?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&section=politics&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR18fUFZWTUrzwrBfEFInsdGHNRgqzykR4o21eDQKPnQrpojTsnwU19ZKuY

 

Interesting to hear from some of the crew. Can't believe the Greg Mortimer is still having problems, after the passengers left it slipped out of the news so I assumed it was all over. Sad there are crew still stuck on the ships like that. When cruising resumes they really need to come up with a better plan that doesn't leave crew stranded.