Will the cruise lines follow the QANTAS lead on vaccination policy?

[mom says]

Select Sys, perhaps it's different in the US, but Canada isn't sitting on a huge stockpile of vaccines and ancillary supplies. Yes, they have contracts for adequate doses. But they aren't sitting somewhere close by just waiting. We've been told that the initial roll out of the vaccine in our province will only be enough for less than 10% of the population. And those are designated for health care and long term care personnel and long term care residents. 

 

Additional vaccines will be provided as they become available. And therein lies the rub. Will they be provided, distributed, and administered in a timely manner? Lots of opportunities for snafus.  But I'm sure your American system will be fool proof, with all levels of government working harmoniously to ensure a faultless delivery to everyone before Easter.

 

As for other countries, while they may also have contracted for adequate doses, it remains to be seen how long it takes before they are all in the arms of the recipients.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mom says

[clo]

4 minutes ago, mom says said:

But I'm sure your American system will be fool proof, with all levels of government working harmoniously to ensure a faultless delivery to everyone before Easter.

LOL!

[SelectSys]

28 minutes ago, mom says said:

Select Sys, perhaps it's different in the US, but Canada isn't sitting on a huge stockpile of vaccines and ancillary supplies...

 

 Lots of opportunities for snafus.  But I'm sure your American system will be fool proof, with all levels of government working harmoniously to ensure a faultless delivery to everyone before Easter.

 

As for other countries, while they may also have contracted for adequate doses, it remains to be seen how long it takes before they are all in the arms of the recipients.

 

Assuming Canada gets even 1/2 its contracted doses, I am not sure what the problem will be.  I can see issues for the highly rural populations and First Nations areas to be logistically difficult, but the major urban centers should be straight forward I would think.

 

No country have any doses as their contracts indicate.  I agree that time will tell as to how fast it goes.  So far schedules having been trending towards the right which suggests progress.  Lot's of concurrent manufacturing is going on world wide. 

 

I am generally suspicious of government's ability to perform well in just about any capacity.  Other than the military, all of the delivery in the US will be performed by the private sector in coordination with states and governments.  Will it be perfect?  Of course not.  Will it be a total disaster?  I doubt that too.  

 

Even some of the president's harshest critics are acknowledging the benefit of the concurrent deliver approach. Here is a link to a source 99.9% critical of the current US administration.

https://slate.com/podcasts/the-gist/2020/11/operation-warp-speed-vaccines

Warp Speed Worked

Trump bungled much of the pandemic response, but Operation Warp Speed wasn’t one.

 

 

Here is a more flattering opinion piece.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/opinion/2020/11/17/donald-trumps-operation-warp-speed-has-delivered-covid-19-vaccine/6310795002/

 

29 minutes ago, clo said:

LOL!

 

 

Consider becoming a small government voter if you don't believe in the efficiency of government to deliver results!  

 

[Geobugs]

I don't support mandatory vaccinations.

[sfaaa]

Regardless of what any contract says, Made In USA means USA gets first dip especially if the situation is considered a national emergency. 

[SelectSys]

5 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

Regardless of what any contract says, Made In USA means USA gets first dip especially if the situation is considered a national emergency. 

 

At the end of the day, most nations act in their self interest first. It does seem sometimes that at the highest levels of wealth in the western world, the notion of national interest has given way to a belief in personal global interest.

[navybankerteacher]

40 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

I don't support mandatory vaccinations.

I recognize your right to not want a vaccination.  Do you respect the rights of others to be protected against diseases you might be transmitting.?

 

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

Consider becoming a small government voter if you don't believe in the efficiency of government to deliver results!  

 

I thought @mom says was being funny so I laughed 🙂

[onlyslightlymad]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Regardless of what any contract says, Made In USA means USA gets first dip especially if the situation is considered a national emergency. 

What is interesting about vaccines is how many components are made in different countries.  Planet Money did an interesting piece on it.  https://www.npr.org/transcripts/897842961. So, if may be difficult to withhold vaccines from other countries when the component parts may be manufactured in those countries.  Also, the first vaccine is not necessarily the best.  What if a better vaccine is developed in Europe and the US wants access to that after stockpiling a more inferior version?  There is also the fact that viruses don't understand border.  If we want the vaccine to stop circulating, poorer countries need access too.  It's an interesting and complex problem.  

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

I don't support mandatory vaccinations.

 

Hope you're not planning on a lot of future travel or cruising....🚫

[mom says]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

I don't support mandatory vaccinations.

Why does this not come as a surprise.

[Geobugs]

47 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I recognize your right to not want a vaccination.  Do you respect the rights of others to be protected against diseases you might be transmitting.?

 

 

 

I do not discriminate against the people who want to get the vaccine.  I respect the rights of others to be "protected" against any disease by allowing vaccinations.  But don't force uninfected people to take unproven, unsafe precautions.

 

[SelectSys]

57 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

 

I do not discriminate against the people who want to get the vaccine.  I respect the rights of others to be "protected" against any disease by allowing vaccinations.  But don't force uninfected people to take unproven, unsafe precautions.

 

 

I haven't heard any calls by any politician to make vaccines mandatory.  You just are going to have to deal with some of the consequences of the decision.

 

ADA will not likely work as long as businesses make accommodations for critical activities.  I can see some people avoiding the vaccine to avoid needing to go back to the office and continue working from home.

[iancal]

What is the connection between mandatory vaccinations and Qantas and others not permitting unvaccinated people to travel on their international flights?

 

Just as you will not be forced to take the vaccination, Qantas (and perhaps other carriers) will not be forced to allow  you on their international flights and will refuse you passage if you show up with a ticket, a passport, but no vaccination certificate.

 

It is really quite a simple idea to grasp.  Is it not?  It will entirely be up to you to make that choice.

[getting older slowly]

Just remember... we do not know how effective a vaccine will be.....

 

or how often you might need a booster shot...

 

Also one other point

a few of the vaccine  they are working on  need to be stored at -80deg C

 

all I am saying is... do not think a vaccine  will promptly

return the world to pre covid-19 world.....   things take time.....

 

I think one should be more concerned about the rising number of new cases in the US   than cruising at the moment.

 

Don

[Roz]

The TN Dept. of Health just released their initial plan for distributing the vaccine. I know a lot of you think TN is a backwater, but hear me out.  I'm over 65 and not living in a nursing home and am not a health care provider.  According to the guidelines, I'll be eligible to receive the vaccine in "spring of 2021".  "Spring" could be April, May, or June.  If I get it in July or August, I'll be happy. 😃

 

Until then, Quantas or any other carrier can issue policies, but if the vaccine isn't available where you live or you're not in a high risk group, you're going to have to wait.  

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Geobugs said:

 

I do not discriminate against the people who want to get the vaccine.  I respect the rights of others to be "protected" against any disease by allowing vaccinations.  But don't force uninfected people to take unproven, unsafe precautions.

 

What if the precautions are not, in fact unproven or unsafe?

 

Are you unaware of the fact that one of the primary reasons for vaccination is to prevent the spread of disease to others - and not just to protect the person being vaccinated? 

 

As a a practical matter   - you are likely to be able to refuse vaccination - as long as you are willing to stay away from people whose rights include the right to not be infected by people with your anti-social attitudes. That means not getting on airplanes, cruise ships, possibly entering schools, etc.   

 

 

[sanger727]

12 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I think you will be surprised.  Canada has secured over 10 dose of vaccines per citizen (highest in the world!) via bilateral contracts with vaccine manufacturers for delivery in 2021.  I guess Canada is putting its citizens first in ensuring that vaccines are going to be available at home!

https://globalnews.ca/news/7467507/canada-coronavirus-vaccines/

 

The same holds true for the EU and US in terms of securing bilateral deals.  It it's funny that the story I found on this subject is specifically critical of the US  while acknowledging other countries are doing exactly the same thing without garnering the author's ire.  What else is new?

http://peninsulapress.com/2020/11/23/u-s-refusal-to-join-covax-puts-worlds-poorest-at-risk/

"Throughout 2020, the United States negotiated a bilateral agreement with Pfizer for 100 million doses and an option to purchase an additional 500 million. It also has deals guaranteeing 100 million vaccine doses with AstraZeneca, NovaVax, Johnson and Johnson, and Moderna, respectively.

The EU has similarly secured over 1 billion vaccine doses on a number of bilateral deals with vaccine manufactures."

 

One issue noted in the this CBC story is that Canada is expecting more logistics issues in terms of distribution and perhaps this is your concern rather than basic availability.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-hurdles-1.5811906

 

 

 

The point remains that this isn't a Canada issue. This is a world issue. Until a sufficient amount of the world population has access to the vaccine, a business can't make it a requirement of use. What good is it to be able to fly to India, if no one in India could board the plan to fly back. Producing enough doses to support world wide vaccination, getting them to each country, and having sufficient infrastructure and planning to then get them to everyone who wants them is going to take some time. And then you still have to wait 2 months, so people can receive a second dose and have all this take an effect. If this gets implemented in before mid-late 2021 I will be surprised. 

[iancal]

Qantas cannot be held responsible for the vaccine rollout in any country.

 

It would not surprise me if a number of countries make proof of covid vaccination a requirement for entry.  If that is the case, all international flights destined to those countries will be forced to require a proof of vaccination.

 

This is not about entitlement.  It is about the conditions of passage the some carriers may impose and the conditions of entry that some countries may impose on visitors.  They make the rules.

[GrJ Berkshire]

13 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I don't support mandatory vaccinations.

Then you will not cruise again!! The new normal will require this and to disembark in many countries. No vaccine will make you "the 21st century lepers" with very restricted choices in what you can do. Remember back to the 50's and iron lungs to fight polio which killed many, now with a vaccine almost erradicated. 

Lets get real no vaccine= no cruises, flights etc I don' t want to mix with super spreaders!!

[Mary229]

39 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Then you will not cruise again!! The new normal will require this and to disembark in many countries. No vaccine will make you "the 21st century lepers" with very restricted choices in what you can do. Remember back to the 50's and iron lungs to fight polio which killed many, now with a vaccine almost erradicated. 

Lets get real no vaccine= no cruises, flights etc I don' t want to mix with super spreaders!!

I agree with your sentiment but truthfully no one has asked me to show my current MMR vaccination papers ever, well at least since I was in grade school and MMR can be far more devastating than any coronavirus.  I am sorry to be such a cynic but in 3 years the world will have moved on to a new worry and this will be forgotten.

[iancal]

This is very simply.

 

It is all about choice.  Make a decision, pass on the whining and complaining.

[clo]

9 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

in 3 years the world will have moved on to a new worry and this will be forgotten.

But the 'smart money' is saying that this is just the beginning of more pandemics as we ignore the planet. So if not this vaccine then a future one.

[clo]

8 minutes ago, iancal said:

This is very simply.

 

It is all about choice.  Make a decision, pass on the whining and complaining.

Yep. We're very clear about the soonest we would cruise (9/11) and that's just how it is. Haven't made a decision on when we will fly intl. but not whining.

[Mary229]

Just now, clo said:

Yep. We're very clear about the soonest we would cruise (9/11) and that's just how it is. Haven't made a decision on when we will fly intl. but not whining.

maybe but how often do we speak of Zika, West Nile,  MERS and so on. As the DH loves to quote "it depends on whose ox is being gored".  On CC we are likely more obsessed with this topic and vaccine than a Facebook group composed of under 30s and they are next up to rule the world.    I think it is actually a benefit of human psyche that we move on otherwise we really would go crazy.