Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

I don't see how a cruise line can show such proof.  It is up to the host country whether or not they will accept an infected passenger, and whatever criteria is being used by that country could change in a flash.

The CDC requirements do not apply to foreign ports.

[Shmoo here]

46 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

I don't see how a cruise line can show such proof.  It is up to the host country whether or not they will accept an infected passenger, and whatever criteria is being used by that country could change in a flash.

I believe CDC is asking for proof in the form of contracts with the various ports that the ships will be (possibly) be porting in that they will accept both the ship for for porting and the transfer of COVID patients.

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe CDC is asking for proof in the form of contracts with the various ports that the ships will be (possibly) be porting in that they will accept both the ship for for porting and the transfer of COVID patients.

 

 

That has also been my understanding all along. Plus they are expected to upgrade the onboard medical facilities.

[nocl]

13 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

Problem is that 'the plan' keeps changing.. 😏

I am sure that the CDC is creating their contingency plan for the next pandemic.  The first requirement is that it must be a well known and well understood virus so that all plans do not have to change and the public does not get confused when they learn more about a previously unknown virus.

[nocl]

10 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The program is unchanged...

 

(a) get covid under control, (B) develop vax, (c) vaccinate, (d) assess effectiveness, (e) do all of the above if insufficient.

 

What has changed is the schedule. Vaccines are ready much earlier than anticipated. But, covid already has variants to counter our vaccines. We mustn't reopen our borders too soon. Covid and its growing family of variants are just waiting to slip through.

 

This is reality, not a reality show.

 

The problem for the disease experts is that covid19 forgot to attach a CV when it took the job in Wuhan. We don't know its history. Where its been? The battles it fought, and the wars it had won.

 

We can only understand its potential when it shows its hand. SARS faded after just 3 months. The Spanish Flu had a good run, but disappeared in year 2.

 

Unfortunately, covid19 is no 100 pound weakling. I didn't have a science education. What does it mean when antibodies show a 12 fold decrease? Is that a reduction to 10%?

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210309/s-african-variant-challenges-pfizer-moderna-vaccines

 

 

If you are talking about the variants it means that 12 times the amount of antibodies are needed to neutralize the virus.  Their effectiveness is decreased 12 X.

[Tampa Girl]

17 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe CDC is asking for proof in the form of contracts with the various ports that the ships will be (possibly) be porting in that they will accept both the ship for for porting and the transfer of COVID patients.

 

 

 

That makes more sense.  I was thinking that the contracts were between the cruise lines and the CDC, and I didn't see how the cruise lines could provide that proof.  But how will that work - no ship will be allowed in a U.S. port if its itinerary is to a port that has not contracted with the CDC?

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

That makes more sense.  I was thinking that the contracts were between the cruise lines and the CDC, and I didn't see how the cruise lines could provide that proof.  But how will that work - no ship will be allowed in a U.S. port if its itinerary is to a port that has not contracted with the CDC?

The CDC requires that each port in the US sign an agreement between the port authority, the state or local health agency, and the cruise line to allow for total passengers in the port each day, to allow for disembarkation of ill or quarantined passengers, and how many, etc.  The cruise line must also show contracts with health care providers (hosptials), medical transportation providers, and accommodation providers (either a facility owned by the cruise line, or a hotel, etc, that will provide space for quarantine), in each port.  Without these agreements and contracts, the cruise line cannot visit that port.  All contracts and agreements are between the cruise lines and the third parties, not the CDC.  CDC only wants to know that these agreements and contracts exist, and meet their requirements.

[Tampa Girl]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC requires that each port in the US sign an agreement between the port authority, the state or local health agency, and the cruise line to allow for total passengers in the port each day, to allow for disembarkation of ill or quarantined passengers, and how many, etc.  The cruise line must also show contracts with health care providers (hosptials), medical transportation providers, and accommodation providers (either a facility owned by the cruise line, or a hotel, etc, that will provide space for quarantine), in each port.  Without these agreements and contracts, the cruise line cannot visit that port.  All contracts and agreements are between the cruise lines and the third parties, not the CDC.  CDC only wants to know that these agreements and contracts exist, and meet their requirements.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  The light has been turned on!

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC requires that each port in the US sign an agreement between the port authority, the state or local health agency, and the cruise line to allow for total passengers in the port each day, to allow for disembarkation of ill or quarantined passengers, and how many, etc.  The cruise line must also show contracts with health care providers (hosptials), medical transportation providers, and accommodation providers (either a facility owned by the cruise line, or a hotel, etc, that will provide space for quarantine), in each port.  Without these agreements and contracts, the cruise line cannot visit that port.  All contracts and agreements are between the cruise lines and the third parties, not the CDC.  CDC only wants to know that these agreements and contracts exist, and meet their requirements.

And there's the problem as the ships get larger and larger and larger. What medical facility and/or quarantine place could handle the population of ships like the Royal Caribbean behemoths of the Seas or a ship like the NCL Epic (the largest ship we ever sailed on)?

[Roz]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And there's the problem as the ships get larger and larger and larger. What medical facility and/or quarantine place could handle the population of ships like the Royal Caribbean behemoths of the Seas or a ship like the NCL Epic (the largest ship we ever sailed on)?

 

If the cruise lines require passengers to be vaccinated, won't that lessen the spread and keep people who contract Covid from becoming seriously ill?  In what scenario would thousands of passengers need to be hospitalized with Covid or quarantined?

[ontheweb]

21 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

If the cruise lines require passengers to be vaccinated, won't that lessen the spread and keep people who contract Covid from becoming seriously ill?  In what scenario would thousands of passengers need to be hospitalized with Covid or quarantined?

It should, but the CDC seems to want to plan for an absolute worst case scenario.

[HappyInVan]

34 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

If the cruise lines require passengers to be vaccinated, won't that lessen the spread and keep people who contract Covid from becoming seriously ill?  In what scenario would thousands of passengers need to be hospitalized with Covid or quarantined?

 

Actually, our CCL hasn't committed to 100% vax. Possible that CDC is trying to nudge all cruise companies to be 100%. Hope this helps?

[CruiserBruce]

53 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

If the cruise lines require passengers to be vaccinated, won't that lessen the spread and keep people who contract Covid from becoming seriously ill?  In what scenario would thousands of passengers need to be hospitalized with Covid or quarantined?

This would also be the basis for plans for other emergencies as well.

[Roz]

I can't think of a port that's equipped to treat thousands of people at one time with any illness or disease, so I guess we aren't going to be cruising.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Actually, our CCL hasn't committed to 100% vax. Possible that CDC is trying to nudge all cruise companies to be 100%. Hope this helps?

So do I ..

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

I can't think of a port that's equipped to treat thousands of people at one time with any illness or disease, so I guess we aren't going to be cruising.

If multiple ships show up with sick pax, or a totally sick ship, this will be covered in the plans. If its multiple ships, ship(s) could be directed to other ports to spread the load. If it a huge number on one ship, the sickest would be taken off first. Arrangements for getting everyone off might take days. It wouldn't all be solved in a short time, like on a TV show. Testing, much advanced over the "early days" would provide far better early decision making info.

 

This is pretty standard planning for mass casualty incidents, and was generally the plan during Grand Princess, except, as so little was known about the virus at the time, and locals were pretty busy at the time, plus the number of foreign citizens on board, all complicated things quite a bit. The choice was made to house a number of people at a military base over an hour drive away, but those were the asymptomatic, possibly not exposed at all, and the mildly symptomatic. Remember, testing for Covid at that time was in its early stages, and very slow.

[nocl]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And there's the problem as the ships get larger and larger and larger. What medical facility and/or quarantine place could handle the population of ships like the Royal Caribbean behemoths of the Seas or a ship like the NCL Epic (the largest ship we ever sailed on)?

The CDC is requiring contingency plans for worst case. But agreements only for anticipated numbers as agreed upon between cruise line and port. If it as safe as people seem to think with fill vaccination for example, the actual number of housing units should be small.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

The CDC is requiring contingency plans for worst case. But agreements only for anticipated numbers as agreed upon between cruise line and port. If it as safe as people seem to think with fill vaccination for example, the actual number of housing units should be small.

If the CDC is requiring contingency plans for worst case scenarios, wouldn't the agreements they expect the cruise lines to have with ports and medical providers have to reflect that requirement?

[nocl]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If the CDC is requiring contingency plans for worst case scenarios, wouldn't the agreements they expect the cruise lines to have with ports and medical providers have to reflect that requirement?

Not necessarily.  The section on agreements clearly state they are based upon the anticipated need determined by both the cruise line and the port.

 

A contingency plan would identify what action that they would need to take and could involve a number of actions such as a list of potential housing locations that they would contact, but not necessarily have a contract in place. I would expect a worse case scenario planning would involve things like canceling the next cruise, temporarily keep people in quarantine on board while arranging for housing, etc.

 

Compare to another common form of contingency plan, a companies disaster recovery plan for example.  Such a plan would usually identify what equipment would be needed and the vendors they would be ordered from, but would not have them on order or for that matter even have a contact anticipating some future need.

[Brentt_M]

Looks like the CRUISE act was introduced in the Senate... wonder if it will go any wherem

[Cruise NH]

Seabourn wants to restart cruising from Florida later this year and wants to require vaccination, apparently Florida's guv says no...I think he needs to 'read the room' .  I think most, if not all, potential cruisers would agree with fully vaccinated cruises.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/another-cruise-line-require-vaccines-012600407.html

[Roz]

58 minutes ago, Cruise NH said:

apparently Florida's guv says no...

 

Does the Gov of FL have the power to tell cruise lines who may or may not sail on their ships?

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

Does the Gov of FL have the power to tell cruise lines who may or may not sail on their ships?

 I don’t think so, Roz.   The control over international and interstate transportation is given to the federal government in the constitution 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Brentt_M said:

Looks like the CRUISE act was introduced in the Senate... wonder if it will go any wherem

 

And that Bill will go into the hopper and never see the light of day again.  Probably good PR for the 3 Senators whose name is on it.

 

Did you notice that the name of Alaska's Senior Senator is not attached to this Bill?

Experience may cause some to know that "tilting at windmills" yields little.  

[idiebabe]

Here is the actual Interview with Ron DeSantis at POM last Friday.  After the other Speakers he addresses Vaccine Passports and takes questions, etc.  

 

Gov. Ron DeSantis speaks at Port of Miami - Bing video

 

Here is the latest from Christine Duffy.  I think we need to keep in mind that Christine is Carnival Cruise Lines President.   Hopefully, Carnival Corp. will let the decision to require Vaccinations be left up to the individual Presidents.

 

Carinval Cruise Line President Christine Duffy joins TWISF (local10.com)