If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?

[Donald]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not exactly. Many of the premium/luxury lines inform you regarding what countries require YF vaccine but then advise you to decide what to do in consultation with your MD. Yes, the WHO Yellow Card may be required (or just advised). But, it may indicate “vaccination” or “waiver” (re: age over 65) and it will definitely be acceptable by a cruise line and most likely acceptable by a country “requiring” YF vaccine (e.g., French Guiana doesn’t even check).

I worked for several of those premium lines for 40 years. We REQUIRED the yellow card for pax visiting the requisite countries.

No yellow card - no cruise.

French Guiana may not have checked where you visited, but they checked every time my ship was there. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

45 minutes ago, Donald said:

I worked for several of those premium lines for 40 years. We REQUIRED the yellow card for pax visiting the requisite countries.

No yellow card - no cruise.

French Guiana may not have checked where you visited, but they checked every time my ship was there. 

You may want to reread my post. I said the cruise line may require the WHO Yellow Card but the card may indicate YF “waiver” or “vaccination” as certified by an appropriate healthcare provider.

I’ve been to numerous African and South American countries (that “require” YF vaccination) on multiple cruises in recent years. As expected by my preferred cruise line, I had the WHO card in my possession and, as is the case with many folks over 65, it clearly indicates YF vaccine “waived.”

Moreover, I have never once been asked by any  government authority anywhere to produce that card nor was I even asked to show it at embarkation check-in.

 

Here is the current text (bold added) of that cruise line’s YF policy (WHO card required but YF vaccination is a choice made in consult with your MD) as stated on their invoices:

 

HEALTH REQUIREMENTS
Yellow Fever Inoculation and Malaria Prophylaxis may be required by one of more ports in this itinerary.
We encourage guests to consult the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention site and more importantly, their physician to make the best decision based on their overall health.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website is: <http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel>
Guests must bring Yellow Fever Card or letter from your physician should it be requested.

[Honolulu Blue]

18 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Some cruise lines are already saying vaccines will be required. Many of us on these forums are saying we will not sail on a ship unless everyone is vaccinated.

 

Now if a health department from the state where the vaccine was administered needs a day to check, how is a cruise line supposed to do this at embarkation?

 

The quick answer is they're not going to check, not in this way.  

 

There's no need to check with your chosen cruise line's customer service rep (who may or may not know and probably has more important issues to take care of).  Unless and until there's a breakthrough in vaccine "passport" technology, there's one and only one form of proof for a vaccinated U.S. customer that's even close to universal - the card.  Easy to fake as it might be, the only reasonable alternative is to add the vaccine question as part of the health survey and NOT check.  That would be even easier to fake, IMHO.

[frantic36]

I read this a few days ago and it seemed to indicate there was an electronic record of your vaccination:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/04/17/vaccine-card-record-covid-passport/

 

So doesn't this mean they can check online prior to the cruise?

 

I got my first vaccine shot here in Australia last week and I can see it on my HealthGov website.

[Hlitner]

I find it amusing how some folks will try to complicate everything to fit their own agenda.  The reality is that each airline and country is imposing their own rules and requirements and it is up to each traveler to familiarize themselves with these requirements and comply.  Otherwise it is likely they will be left sobbing at the check-in counter or gate.  So while it is certainly true that no current "proof of vaccine" document is perfect or foolproof, having such a document is still required in many cases.  Can folks provide a false document?  Sure and it may or may not work.  For Americans it is actually easier and less costly to simply get vaccinated (Free) to obtain a CDC vaccine card.  If one goes through the trouble to get a false vaccine card then it may well work but then again it could get them into some legal trouble with the government and even make them civilly liable to certain parties (i.e. cruise line, other passengers, etc).  

 

Can a fully vaccinated person contract COVID?  Absolutely.  (the odds are greater then 1 in 10,000).  Can a vaccinated person be an asymptomatic carrier and spread COVID?  There is no scientific proof that this can happen and even Dr. Walensky has publicly stated that a fully vaccinated person is safe.  I suspect that there are some very long odds of an exception just like there are long odds of any person being hit on the head by a meteor.  

 

So lets just accept that there are no completely foolproof systems, no guarantees, etc.  Life always involves risk from birth to death and this COVID mess is no exception.  All we can do is tilt the odds in our favor and hope for the best.

 

I have previously posted that Greece is one of the first countries in the world to adopt a policy that allows vaccinated folks to enter their country without a test.  Turkey does accept the CDC card and similar official vaccination documents from other countries.  We can all agree this is not the perfect foolproof system, but it is the real system that is currently being utilized :).  The naysayers can whine and protest all they want but it does not change the facts.   The US Government requires all travelers flying to the USA to have documentation of a negative COVID test (either Antigen or Molecular) within the previous 3 days.  They further require that all travelers complete and sign an "Attestation" form that makes the submission of false test results a Federal felony.  Can folks beat this system?  Absolutely.  Is it a wise thing to do?  Nope.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

26 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

I read this a few days ago and it seemed to indicate there was an electronic record of your vaccination:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/04/17/vaccine-card-record-covid-passport/

 

So doesn't this mean they can check online prior to the cruise?

 

I got my first vaccine shot here in Australia last week and I can see it on my HealthGov website.

If it is so easy, see my original posts. My DW got her shot at a county health clinic. When contacted by the state health department, she read off the information on the card. Why should it take at least a day to confirm her information if it is so easy?

[frantic36]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If it is so easy, see my original posts. My DW got her shot at a county health clinic. When contacted by the state health department, she read off the information on the card. Why should it take at least a day to confirm her information if it is so easy?

 

 

I have no idea why it is difficult in the States that's why I was curious if this report is accurate?

 

I know after our vaccination here in Australia I got a SMS after it was done while I was still at the respiratory clinic and when we went on our HealthGov website. When my husband and I got home we could see it.

[Sea42]

16 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

I have no idea why it is difficult in the States that's why I was curious if this report is accurate?

 

I know after our vaccination here in Australia I got a SMS after it was done while I was still at the respiratory clinic and when we went on our HealthGov website. When my husband and I got home we could see it.

The difficulty here in the States is that we don't have a national health care system (with the exception of the elderly, low income and military veterans). Each sate does things in different ways. Our vaccines are reported to a state database here in Wisconsin but, to my knowledge, that information is not passed on to the federal government.

[frantic36]

6 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

The difficulty here in the States is that we don't have a national health care system (with the exception of the elderly, low income and military veterans). Each sate does things in different ways. Our vaccines are reported to a state database here in Wisconsin but, to my knowledge, that information is not passed on to the federal government.

 

Interesting.

I know when my husband had chest pain over a weekend last year it was useful for us to have his data accessible to the emergency department for his care. With subsequent tests even his private physicians could easily check what he had done in public hospitals. And the same would be accessible no matter where we are in Australia.

[Sea42]

7 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

Interesting.

I know when my husband had chest pain over a weekend last year it was useful for us to have his data accessible to the emergency department for his care. With subsequent tests even his private physicians could easily check what he had done in public hospitals. And the same would be accessible no matter where we are in Australia.

That is fantastic! We just don't have that here on a national level. Our hospitals for the most part belong to various private systems. Many systems offer the patient access to their records through online portals. Of course, that's not very helpful if you're unconscious and alone in the ER!

[LHT28]

33 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

Interesting.

I know when my husband had chest pain over a weekend last year it was useful for us to have his data accessible to the emergency department for his care. With subsequent tests even his private physicians could easily check what he had done in public hospitals. And the same would be accessible no matter where we are in Australia.

Canada  here

 Yes Doctors  here can access our records   I however can not

I got an printed receipt of the vaccine  shot  & an email  to say I had  the 1st shot

 

There needs to be  a GLOBAL  solution to be able for any Country to see you have had the vaccine

It is  a Global Pandemic 

JMO

[cruisemom42]

22 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Now if a health department from the state where the vaccine was administered needs a day to check, how is a cruise line supposed to do this at embarkation?

 

Do you know for sure whether they really needed a day to check...or were they just giving themselves a certain window of time to call back by?

 

I find doctors offices often do this -- they could look up something in about 5 minutes, but they won't commit to getting back to you until 24 hours later!

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Do you know for sure whether they really needed a day to check...or were they just giving themselves a certain window of time to call back by?

 

I find doctors offices often do this -- they could look up something in about 5 minutes, but they won't commit to getting back to you until 24 hours later!

That window of time may not need to be a day, but if every inquiry  must be answered when asked, the agency involved must be appropriately (and very expensively) staffed.  

[ontheweb]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Do you know for sure whether they really needed a day to check...or were they just giving themselves a certain window of time to call back by?

 

I find doctors offices often do this -- they could look up something in about 5 minutes, but they won't commit to getting back to you until 24 hours later!

I do not know. But I do know that it was our county clinic which is part of the state health department so the data should be relatively easy for them to access. 

 

And I know she is fully vaccinated. She was about to leave to deliver blankets she had made as she is a member of project Linus that makes blankets for homeless children. (Going to the drive through meeting.) And I do know they have still not called so she could not go to Church this morning.

 

I do know our tax money is paying their salaries, so they should actually do the work. She should not be quarantined until they get their act together. The CDC says so. And even the e-mail that said they might call said she MIGHT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED. So, in addition she might also not have even been exposed.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

Interesting.

I know when my husband had chest pain over a weekend last year it was useful for us to have his data accessible to the emergency department for his care. With subsequent tests even his private physicians could easily check what he had done in public hospitals. And the same would be accessible no matter where we are in Australia.

I salute your system but in our country we have the constant drum beat of privacy concerns combined with both Federal (i.e. HIPAA) and State Laws/Regulations that make decent accessible data bases a real challenge.  I am happy to be a part of a regional University health system that does maintain a decent data base which can be accessed by healthcare professionals (and me).  But even that particular data base is not readily accessible outside my region.  It could be argued that our paranoia about privacy works against our ability to offer the best healthcare.  

 

So what do we have with COVID?  Some States have vaccine data bases and other States do not!  DW and I got our vaccinations at a Rite Aid (pharmacy) so they do have an electronic record.  They are supposed to forward that information to my own primary care provider but as of a few days ago my healthcare provider (a major University system) had not received any information.  They actually asked me if I could come by with our vaccination cards so they could enter the info in their data base.  But that data base would not be readily accessible to any other healthcare provider outside our own system.   Many Americans would be shocked at how many folks die in our country because Emergency Rooms and related workers (such as paramedics) must work "blind" without the ability to get medical records.  When I worked in emergency medicine (paramedic) we used to equate it to "veterinary medicine" when dealing with an unresponsive patient.  Even a basic question such as "do you have allergies to any medication?" becomes complicated. In a more perfect world we should have been able to immediately pull up a person's medical history but that does not happen in America.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

We waited a few days so that we could get our appointments at the local hospital which is the hub of our local care system -- our local specialists can all access all records -- i was not sure of the procedures our local CVS, or the town hall vaccine center, might have in place.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

i was not sure of the procedures our local CVS,

 

I received both of my doses at my local CVS.  If the information that I received the vaccine (and which one it was) was put into a data base, who did that?  Maybe it was the technician who gave me the shot.  She had a hand-held device that she used before and I got the shot.  Maybe that was what she was doing?

 

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Many Americans would be shocked at how many folks die in our country because Emergency Rooms and related workers (such as paramedics) must work "blind" without the ability to get medical records. 

 

I'll try not to make this a "rant", but it is a source of irritation to me.  The hospital network and related doctors that I patronize have electronic medical records.  Those records don't seem to get used much by my doctors.  Blood work is ordered and done by Dr. A, but Dr. B either can't or doesn't access the data.  Or, the blood work never gets reported!  This is just a single example of what I have experienced.  

[lenquixote66]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We waited a few days so that we could get our appointments at the local hospital which is the hub of our local care system -- our local specialists can all access all records -- i was not sure of the procedures our local CVS, or the town hall vaccine center, might have in place.

We also waited to get appointments at our local hospital primarily because if there is a problem doctors are available.Doctors are not present are drug stores.

[shipgeeks]

I find it ironic that some people are adamant that vaccination records are private and shouldn't be seen by anyone......and there are people who share photos of their children, post what dates they will be away from home, where they are right now, what Amazon delivery they're expecting on Monday, etc. on facebook and other sites.

Are any of them the same people?  I don't know.  But personally, I'd rather share my medical records than pictures of my family and the inside of my house.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

That window of time may not need to be a day, but if every inquiry  must be answered when asked, the agency involved must be appropriately (and very expensively) staffed.  

Well now it well over a day since Saturday morning, and they have not called to release her from quarantine because she has had her vaccinations. They were at the county clinic which is part of the state health department. 

 

They have no excuses. Well actually they work for the government, so they do as little as possible until maybe they are near retirement when they take overtime to hike their pension (which BTW is not taxable by NY state.)

[cruisemom42]

Whatever solution is planned for checking vaccines, they'd better get on with it. The EU announced today that US citizens fully vaccinated with an approved (by EMEA) vaccine will be allowed to travel to the EU by this summer.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-union-will-let-vaccinated-americans-visit-this-summer-official-2021-04-25/

 

I wonder if this will salvage those remaining Med and European cruises -- IF they mandate "vaccines only"?

 

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Well now it well over a day since Saturday morning, and they have not called to release her from quarantine because she has had her vaccinations. They were at the county clinic which is part of the state health department. 

 

They have no excuses. Well actually they work for the government, so they do as little as possible until maybe they are near retirement when they take overtime to hike their pension (which BTW is not taxable by NY state.)

A very good reason not to submit to use of tracking systems (maybe you are required to?).

I know of very few people who actually received a vaccine card around here. Just those who may have gone to a small local pharmacy. Not those at the hospital or clinics. It is in your electronic record. Period. I can print it out and call it a card I suppose.

[slidergirl]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I salute your system but in our country we have the constant drum beat of privacy concerns combined with both Federal (i.e. HIPAA) and State Laws/Regulations that make decent accessible data bases a real challenge.  I am happy to be a part of a regional University health system that does maintain a decent data base which can be accessed by healthcare professionals (and me).  But even that particular data base is not readily accessible outside my region.  It could be argued that our paranoia about privacy works against our ability to offer the best healthcare.  

 

So what do we have with COVID?  Some States have vaccine data bases and other States do not!  DW and I got our vaccinations at a Rite Aid (pharmacy) so they do have an electronic record.  They are supposed to forward that information to my own primary care provider but as of a few days ago my healthcare provider (a major University system) had not received any information.  They actually asked me if I could come by with our vaccination cards so they could enter the info in their data base.  But that data base would not be readily accessible to any other healthcare provider outside our own system.   Many Americans would be shocked at how many folks die in our country because Emergency Rooms and related workers (such as paramedics) must work "blind" without the ability to get medical records.  When I worked in emergency medicine (paramedic) we used to equate it to "veterinary medicine" when dealing with an unresponsive patient.  Even a basic question such as "do you have allergies to any medication?" becomes complicated. In a more perfect world we should have been able to immediately pull up a person's medical history but that does not happen in America.

 

Hank

Hank:  this is why I have a Road ID (look it up on the 'net).  Since I travel solo, I always made sure to wear my Road ID band.  Now, I have the ID on my Apple Watch.  I have the interactive version, which I keep up to date with meds, vaccinations, allergies.  It speaks for me when I can't.  It came in handy back when I had my accident in Italy - no way for me to remember all my meds & dosages.  By having my ID, it was made sure that I received my meds while I was in the hospital.  

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Hank:  this is why I have a Road ID (look it up on the 'net).  Since I travel solo, I always made sure to wear my Road ID band.  Now, I have the ID on my Apple Watch.  I have the interactive version, which I keep up to date with meds, vaccinations, allergies.  It speaks for me when I can't.  It came in handy back when I had my accident in Italy - no way for me to remember all my meds & dosages.  By having my ID, it was made sure that I received my meds while I was in the hospital.  

You just need to pray that the medical workers even bother to look for your info.  You did make me feel guilty since I also wear an iWatch but do not keep it up to date.

 

Hank

[slidergirl]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You just need to pray that the medical workers even bother to look for your info.  You did make me feel guilty since I also wear an iWatch but do not keep it up to date.

 

Hank

It's not IN the watch, but attached to the band.  If I need to, I can still wear the band - it has an "medical alert" type badge on it.  It's just like having those silver Medical Alert bracelets, but nicer.