CDC says no more masks for the vaccinated, so now what?

[ipeeinthepool]

5 hours ago, medtech71 said:

 

Huh?  So, people shouldn’t be allowed on cruises unvaccinated, except the loved ones who can’t, and you need to be vaccinated to help them?

 

1. Vaccinated people can still get sick.

2.  Vaccinated people can still transmit to others.

3.  See 1 & 2.

 

Number 1 is true, but it will be a mild case and you might not know you contracted Covid unless you are tested.

 

Number 2 is false.  Studies have shown that even if your contract a breakthrough case of Covid, the viral load is so low you won’t infect others.  

[ChucktownSteve]

2 hours ago, Merly said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but people who have had the Pfizer vaccine have also caught COVID.  My daughter being one of them. 

 

Sorry for your loss

[Miaminice]

2 hours ago, abbydancer said:

"While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order"

 

To me, that means you can't do what you said above.  And ships "already sailing" are  irrelevant, since they don't sail out of the US and thus not subject to CDC rules.

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that many people here don't read things carefully before attacking others.

 

First of all, there is already an updated order! You might want to stick to your own advice and read it.
Second "while eating or drinking" means the time required for a regular meal without lingering at the table (extended meal service). So the rule reflects exactly what is already happening - which as mentioned happens under regulations with almost identical wording. You might also want to read them before dismissing them.

Third, the CDC already stated that they are looking at the practical experiences made on the mentioned cruise lines. So they are not irrelevant at all 😉 

Of course if your desire is to keep on whining and bashing, please feel free to stay inside the little box...
we prefer a pragmatic look at facts and reality - incl. at what´s happening outside of the US. 
 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Miaminice

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Number 2 is false.  Studies have shown that even if your contract a breakthrough case of Covid, the viral load is so low you won’t infect others.  

 

Nope, #2 is actually correct - Studies have shown that transmission is reduced significanty but NOT impossible. That is a slight, but significant difference!
 

[ChucktownSteve]

45 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

 

Nope, #2 is actually correct - Studies have shown that transmission is reduced significanty but NOT impossible. That is a slight, but significant difference!
 

 

So is it that vaccinated people transmit to UN-vaccinated or vaccinated people?

 

What are the actual effects on vaccinated people as a result of the transmission?  Is it less than a cold, less than the flu or less than debilitating?

 

If it's slight, I don't care whether the people around me are vaccinated or not. Wearing masks or not.  I made my choice to be vaccinated. They have a choice not to be vaccinated so they decide if they want the risk of possibly contracting the virus or not.  They just have to live (or die) with the consequences.

 

It's referred to as Darwinism.

Edited May 14, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[vermonter16]

The CDC changes directions as the wind turns.  We handed out masks straight from China that specifically said - doesn't protect against viruses....  Everyone was happy to put it on....because the CDC said so....sheesh.  

[4774Papa]

Can we all agree that cruises should be for vaccinated persons?

[ipeeinthepool]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

 

Nope, #2 is actually correct - Studies have shown that transmission is reduced significanty but NOT impossible. That is a slight, but significant difference!
 

 

Nope, this was the one of the reasons the CDC gave for relaxing the guidelines.  Almost anything is possible, you can say that about any disease 

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

However, the CDC apparently also said:

 

Fully vaccinated individuals are still advised to wear masks while in crowded indoor settings such as while on public transportation and in hospitals, prisons and homeless shelters.

Well I do not plan to visit anybody in prison or hopefully not in a hospital either.  I will not be homeless anytime soon.  I will drop off food at a shelter at the outside drop box or donate online.  I do not use public transportation except airports and airplanes.  I think the CDC is still overreaching on requiring masks for fully vaccinated passengers on airplanes since there is not one piece of evidence that the virus is spread on flights.

[K.T.B.]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Well I do not plan to visit anybody in prison or hopefully not in a hospital either.  I will not be homeless anytime soon.  I will drop off food at a shelter at the outside drop box or donate online.  I do not use public transportation except airports and airplanes.  I think the CDC is still overreaching on requiring masks for fully vaccinated passengers on airplanes since there is not one piece of evidence that the virus is spread on flights.

 

Overreaching is a bit of an understatement.  When you look at what was released on May 5th as opposed to what was announced yesterday, the CDC doesn't know what the hell it's doing.  What was announced yesterday in terms of (mostly) ditching masks for those that are vaccinated flies directly in the face of what they're expecting of cruise lines.  There is no differentiating vaccinated vs unvaccinated either, at least no in terms of dining.  But, again, it goes against what was announced yesterday....

 

Heck, even news channels are taking the CDC to task about the mixed messages in the past week or so!  Morning Joe really called them out on their their apparent ineptitude.  

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, El Crucero said:

Because no one is vaccinated against the variants yet, some of which are more contagious than the original strain.  Knowledge is your friend.

We are all vaccinated with vaccines highly effective against most variants.  In particular excellent protection against the more contagious (such as U.K. variant) which now dominates the US.  Get the current vaccines, mRNA or J&J and stay out of the hospital even with variants.  Yes all vaccines carry the risk that a small number of vaccinated will become Covid positive but mild cases.   That will be the case for many years to come.  Time to change the criteria.  Forget about case numbers.  Not relevant with vaccines in the picture now.  If the vast majority of vaccinated people are not hospitalized or worse even with variants around then that should be the criteria, not positive Covid test numbers.  If hospitalizations creep up due to variants you will be able to get a booster dose or a variant-specific booster if necessary.  That is life going forward.  We need to switch from fear of the virus to management of the virus.  Knowledge is your friend too.

[Miaminice]

25 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Nope, this was the one of the reasons the CDC gave for relaxing the guidelines.  Almost anything is possible, you can say that about any disease 

show me one study which supports your claim that transmission is impossible! 

[ECCruise]

17 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Nope, this was the one of the reasons the CDC gave for relaxing the guidelines.  Almost anything is possible, you can say that about any disease 

But it sure would appear that fully vaccinated people may be spreading it to other fully vaccinated people.  The 8 NY Yankees and Bill Maher, who both announced positive yesterday, operate in vaccinated environments.

There is still ongoing research on this subject, although the evidence so far is that any positive cases are either asymptomatic or mild, so likely not a huge issue.   Which is one thing in a land environment (players don't play or Bill Maher cancels one show) but completely different in a cruise environment.  What happens if that kind of ratio (say as little as 1-5%) is tested positive?  Continue the cruise?  Return to embarkation port?  Does that port allow you to disembark?

All questions needing to be answered.

[ipeeinthepool]

4 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

show me one study which supports your claim that transmission is impossible! 

 

Never said it was impossible.  very, unlikely. No vaccines are 100% effective.

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

But it sure would appear that fully vaccinated people may be spreading it to other fully vaccinated people.  The 8 NY Yankees and Bill Maher, who both announced positive yesterday, operate in vaccinated environments.

There is still ongoing research on this subject, although the evidence so far is that any positive cases are either asymptomatic or mild, so likely not a huge issue.   Which is one thing in a land environment (players don't play or Bill Maher cancels one show) but completely different in a cruise environment.  What happens if that kind of ratio (say as little as 1-5%) is tested positive?  Continue the cruise?  Return to embarkation port?  Does that port allow you to disembark?

All questions needing to be answered.

The transmission from and between fully vaccinated people is very low and now the CDC acknowledged that too.  You cannot take isolated incidents like the two you listed with no other details and say that is the norm.  

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

So is it that vaccinated people transmit to UN-vaccinated or vaccinated people?

 

What are the actual effects on vaccinated people as a result of the transmission?  Is it less than a cold, less than the flu or less than debilitating?

 

If it's slight, I don't care whether the people around me are vaccinated or not. Wearing masks or not.  I made my choice to be vaccinated. They have a choice not to be vaccinated so they decide if they want the risk of possibly contracting the virus or not.  They just have to live (or die) with the consequences.

 

It's referred to as Darwinism.

 

I am vaccinated as well and grateful to be. I will not get into your ideas of Darwinism since that is not the point.

In post 55 ipeeinthepool criticized a previous post correctly stating that transmission despite vaccination is possible and claimed transmission is impossible. The latter is simply incorrect! Transmission to and from vaccinated people is possible. No matter if the results are severe or not, it is possible.

 

 

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, Miaminice said:

 

I am vaccinated as well and grateful to be. I will not get into your ideas of Darwinism since that is not the point.

In post 55 ipeeinthepool criticized a previous post correctly stating that transmission despite vaccination is possible and claimed transmission is impossible. The latter is simply incorrect! Transmission to and from vaccinated people is possible. No matter if the results are severe or not, it is possible.

 

 

Yes possible but the viral load is much lower if it does happen.  Again even the highly conservative CDC is no longer worried about virus transmission amongst the vaccinated in most indoor and outdoor situations.  

[Miaminice]

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Never said it was impossible.  very, unlikely. No vaccines are 100% effective.

you are joking, right?

 

Look at your own words in post #55 where you stated exactly that? 😂

 

And you are blaming the CDC for changing their minds?! 😂🤣😂

[Miaminice]

5 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes possible but the viral load is much lower if it does happen.  Again even the highly conservative CDC is no longer worried about virus transmission amongst the vaccinated in most indoor and outdoor situations.  

 Not objecting to that... just objected the statement in post #55 “the viral load is so low you won’t infect others.” 
 

Low chance and not possible are two completely different things 😉

Edited May 14, 2021 by Miaminice

[ECCruise]

11 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The transmission from and between fully vaccinated people is very low and now the CDC acknowledged that too.  You cannot take isolated incidents like the two you listed with no other details and say that is the norm.  

I must have missed where I said it was the "norm" or anything remotely close to that.  I clearly did not.

 

You totally missed my point.  I said that it could happen (it did--even you said chances are "Very low") and my query was what happens if this occurs on a cruise sailing (and it might).  

[ipeeinthepool]

23 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

you are joking, right?

 

Look at your own words in post #55 where you stated exactly that? 😂

 

And you are blaming the CDC for changing their minds?! 😂🤣😂

 

There must be nothing left for you to argue about.  If the the viral load is low that the CDC isn't worried, that's good enough for me.  Vaccinated people aren't a threat to anyone.  Period.

[FlyerTalker]

3 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Sorry for your loss

 

Another example of the doom cult in action.  Daughter caught the virus.  Nowhere did it say anyone passed away.  But the big tenet of Fauci Faith is "Covid = Death".  Which is absolutely far from the truth.

[boscobeans]

44 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes possible but the viral load is much lower if it does happen.  Again even the highly conservative CDC is no longer worried about virus transmission amongst the vaccinated in most indoor and outdoor situations.  

People must realize that immunity is not like the fictional shields that surrounded and protected the Enterprise on Star Trek.

 

Immunity is based on a battle between your body and an invasion from an infecting army.

 

During the initial battle when the enemy army first invades it will OF COURSE be found present on the battle field.

 

Hopefully when the battle is over your military made up of antibodies, who were enlisted and trained by the vaccine have destroyed the enemy, leaving no survivors. .  

 

If tested from the moment of the invasion to when the last invader is dealt with, there will be active enemy present and the possibility of a few survivors jumping ship and landing on another host is not beyond the realm of possibility but seems to me to be highly unlikely. 

 

ESPECIALLY if the fleeing survivors land on shore where there is a well prepared army (ANTIBODIES) laying in wait.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by boscobeans

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Well I do not plan to visit anybody in prison or hopefully not in a hospital either.  I will not be homeless anytime soon.  I will drop off food at a shelter at the outside drop box or donate online.  I do not use public transportation except airports and airplanes.  I think the CDC is still overreaching on requiring masks for fully vaccinated passengers on airplanes since there is not one piece of evidence that the virus is spread on flights.

Because not every passenger on an airplane or other public transportation may be vaccinated. How would the airlines referee such a circumstance? Rhetorical question. They couldn’t and shouldn’t be required to. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by harkinmr

[baldilocks]

IMHO for sailing.

 

1. All cruise passengers (12 and up) shall be vaccinated or proven anti-bodies.

2. All ship's crew shall be vaccinated.

3. No mask wearing.

4. No social distancing.

5. Buffet to be served by crew (this also helps Noro virus transmission)

6. Updated ship's medical department (no more doctors from the University of Mongolia, etc.)

7. No ship's 'bubble' excursions except where the port stop itself requires it

 

Basically, cruising as it used to be....I hope....otherwise I'm not going.