CDC says no more masks for the vaccinated, so now what?

[hcat]

39 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

That is a non starter for me.  You're going to make every passenger pay for a doctor's visit to receive a permission slip? It is nobody's business, including the cruise line's, demanding private,  medical conditions.  Besides your criteria is very subjective.

 

If that's a deal breaker for you without it, I say fine. Your choice.

The cruise lines' exclusion rule for people with certain higher risk conditions, and then requiring a  dr's certification of " fit to sail" for certain groups caused a big blow back many months ago.

 

  I agree it should not be revisited!

 

  Once vaccinated risk of catching Covid is lowered.  We will still bring our masks for crowded events and locations, as we do now on land.  Masks work great for  pollen, and other pollutants in the air...

[HMR74]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

That is a non starter for me.  You're going to make every passenger pay for a doctor's visit to receive a permission slip? It is nobody's business, including the cruise line's, demanding private,  medical conditions.  Besides your criteria is very subjective.

 

If that's a deal breaker for you without it, I say fine. Your choice.

Ok, fair enough, but rather than going to a solution, lets start at the problem..

 

if a rather low number of people catching covid on a cruise will immediately terminate the cruise at the closest port, just how is that risk reduced? We also know that people with  3 or more co morbidities are at high risk of catching it. 
 

i would think there has to be a way of sorting this out.  Recall last year when those over 70 were going to be required to have the form signed by a doctor.  And if age 65 was the cut off, let medicare cover it. The system seems to not care too much about spending money on incentivizing when it comes to covid anyway.
 

i would just hate to have a cruise terminated because ~20 people over 70 , out of 2000 on a cruise, who had serious problems to begin with, with a weakened immune system, were determined to have covid. 

[ChucktownSteve]

17 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

if a rather low number of people catching covid on a cruise will immediately terminate the cruise at the closest port, just how is that risk reduced? We also know that people with  3 or more co morbidities are at high risk of catching it. 
 

i would think there has to be a way of sorting this out.  Recall last year when those over 70 were going to be required to have the form signed by a doctor.  And if age 65 was the cut off, let medicare cover it. The system seems to not care too much about spending money on incentivizing when it comes to covid anyway.
 

i would just hate to have a cruise terminated because ~20 people over 70 , out of 2000 on a cruise, who had serious problems to begin with, with a weakened immune system, were determined to have covid. 

 

Rather presumptuous.  Because you're that afraid of a cruise being terminated over conditions you have no control over, why bother cruising?  Besides you're not taking into account the immunizations and resulting effects. You're theorizing based on fear not science.

 

How about this hypothesis; If a frog's legs were longer, he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hopped. Therefore we should require longer legs on frogs.

Edited May 15, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[HMR74]

54 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Rather presumptuous.  Because you're that afraid of a cruise being terminated over conditions you have no control over, why bother cruising?  Besides you're not taking into account the immunizations and resulting effects. You're theorizing based on fear not science.

 

How about this hypothesis; If a frog's legs were longer, he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hopped. Therefore we should require longer legs on frogs.

you are trying to be funny but its not succeeding.

 

The cruise lines have an existing  policy that if you appear ill at check-in, they can pull you aside for further review. That has pretty much not been followed for whatever the reason.

 

It does not happen too often but when a ship is diverted to a port where an ill passenger can be offloaded it has a high likelihood of skipping another port on the itinerary. If the passenger has to be offloaded as an emergency they can go so far as having a navy ship and helicopter transfer the patient. Big dollars and also a delay. This is cruise termination if there are 20 of these situations of covid (and false positives can play a part too, but you do not know for a couple of days)

 

If everything else is in order for me as a showstopper, I would not let this issue stop me. I am over 65 and in pretty good condition--now. And I have seen some contemporaries deteriorate quickly.

 

However, It is kind of like the adult kids taking away a car if an elderly parent is dangerous. You take the precautionary step before there is a problem.

 

Its not just the potential to infect someone else but cause chaos and disruption to the cruise. Just because someone wants to  bring a not too healthy Grandpa along,  will be ok even though someone has to watch over him all the time, or bring a caregiver along. That situation in the extreme brings risk of not just covid but anything going wrong, thus potentially disrupting the cruise.

 

Its really the extreme situation I am concerned about where some people just do not have the common sense and regard for others.

 

And I was a risk manager in my career, and the goal was to reduce risk but keep the business running.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by HMR74

[ChucktownSteve]

12 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

you are trying to be funny but its not succeeding.

 

The cruise lines have an existing  policy that if you appear ill at check-in, they can pull you aside for further review. That has pretty much not been followed for whatever the reason.

 

It does not happen too often but when a ship is diverted to a port where an ill passenger can be offloaded it has a high likelihood of skipping another port on the itinerary. If the passenger has to be offloaded as an emergency they can go so far as having a navy ship and helicopter transfer the patient. Big dollars and also a delay. This is cruise termination if there are 20 of these situations of covid (and false positives can play a part too, but you do not know for a couple of days)

 

If everything else is in order for me as a showstopper, I would not let this issue stop me. I am over 65 and in pretty good condition--now. And I have seen some contemporaries deteriorate quickly.

 

However, It is kind of like the adult kids taking away a car if an elderly parent is dangerous. You take the precautionary step before there is a problem.

 

Its not just the potential to infect someone else but cause chaos and disruption to the cruise. Just because someone wants to  bring a not too healthy Grandpa along,  will be ok even though someone has to watch over him all the time, or bring a caregiver along. That situation in the extreme brings risk of not just covid but anything going wrong, thus potentially disrupting the cruise.

 

Its really the extreme situation I am concerned about where some people just do not have the common sense and regard for others.

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to be funny. It was an analogy based upon your post.

 

So as I understand it, you want to penalize every elderly person based upon your fear of the extreme situation?  Have you considered getting a job with the Government?  You'd fit right in.

Edited May 15, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[wrk2cruise]

Just for clarity I believe the CSO only requires port agreements for US ports.  That's not to say that they won't disembark covid positives at the next port.  Celebrity doesn't seem willing to share their tiered response plan.

 

I wish I could find it but somewhere I thought I read that it was 1% of passengers and/or 3% of crew testing positive which would cause the cruise to be terminated and return to the embarkation port.  If anybody else can remember where that's documented please post a link.

[NantahalaCruiser]

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

if a rather low number of people catching covid on a cruise will immediately terminate the cruise at the closest port, just how is that risk reduced? We also know that people with  3 or more co morbidities are at high risk of catching it. 

 

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

i would just hate to have a cruise terminated because ~20 people over 70 , out of 2000 on a cruise, who had serious problems to begin with, with a weakened immune system, were determined to have covid. 

This is why I will not be cruising until Celebrity makes a detailed statement on exactly what level of infection would require termination and what financial remuneration I would receive due to termination.

[HMR74]

12 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

I wasn't trying to be funny. It was an analogy based upon your post.

 

So as I understand it, you want to penalize every elderly person based upon your fear of the extreme situation?  Have you considered getting a job with the Government?  You'd fit right in.

OK, just don't piss and moan if its your cruise that gets terminated because under the new rules 20 seniors who were vaccinated get covid.

 

If it can happen to professional athletes who were vaccinated, under an EUA vaccine I remind us, which means it has not been fully tested, what's the risk for the demographics of a cruise ship?

That appears to be 8 out of say 100  or so working and traveling together.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

 

[HMR74]

15 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Just for clarity I believe the CSO only requires port agreements for US ports.  That's not to say that they won't disembark covid positives at the next port.  Celebrity doesn't seem willing to share their tiered response plan.

 

I wish I could find it but somewhere I thought I read that it was 1% of passengers and/or 3% of crew testing positive which would cause the cruise to be terminated and return to the embarkation port.  If anybody else can remember where that's documented please post a link.

I too saw it and it was something like 1% of the ships normal capacity--EG Oasis Class is 4700 without extras in cabins but 6700 fully loaded. But the #20 I used -Solstice class.  is 2850 or so. Whatever it was, I thought it was a low bar to get over.

 

And I am not trying to exclude elderly, I just do not believe people who are ill  with real risks to being contagious to others, or affecting a cruise, should take a pass on the cruise. But there is no reason to exclude the normal risks of life.

 

From time to time, "Stuff" just happens, outlier problems erupt. We cannot stop living active lives.

 

 

[boscobeans]

10 hours ago, baldilocks said:

I knew something was not right when my wife who was holding the drugs said 'wait a minute, somethings wrong'. That is when I saw what he had given me. The waiting room was packed with people at the time, including a woman who has just broken her arm. I was not going to make a scene with all those people there. There was no need to confer with my cardiologist as she had cautioned me many times at home about a serious drug reaction with this drug.  

Thank you for a logical and polite response to a harmless question. 

[Fouremco]

8 hours ago, baldilocks said:

I just do not like incompetent doctors from anywhere on the planet. 

On that we all agree. It was unfortunate that you chose to include the comment "(no more doctors from the University of Mongolia, etc.)" in your post, especially as the doctor with whom you had issues was from Spain.

[K.T.B.]

11 hours ago, HMR74 said:

I am not sure about everybody else, however,  I want to find out for myself what "showstoppers" there would be for my next cruise coming in Apr 22.

 

Mostly Vaccinated people on board--pretty much checked off as ok.

 

Masks not required, not quite there yet, but working in that direction--almost checked off

 

frequent on board testing--I can live with that

 

Looks like private non cruise line excursions allowed--check

 

I would like to see everybody on board have to provide a note from DR that the person is in pretty good condition, eg, only 1 or 2 co morbidities, but pretty robust. That, with being vaccinated,  would cut down on the magnitude, risk,  of a problem.

 

Which affects the "what if" there is an outbreak on board, an outbreak defined by CDC. which I think depending on the ship size, as I read last week which might be last weeks news, as few as 20-30.

 

IN that case, I believe the protocol is to end the cruise at nearest port that will accept them. Remember cruise lines have to have agreements with various ports ahead of time as to handle hte influx.

What if that nearest port is a smallish island, and the infrastructure to quarantine the passengers might be tight, and or flights out  for 1000-3000 people , or more, might be pretty lean.

 

Those with cruises soon, have to deal with that sooner than others,

 

and like others , I would like to see the travelers reviews on the first cruises. What went better than expected, what went worse.

 

But overall it looks like things are progressing with a bit more urgency than a month ago.

 

But its what we do not know, that can bite us in a hurry.

 

 

Port agreements need to be signed.  Once that's done, I think there's one more step to be taken, of which I am forgetting currently, but I know @nocl has mentioned previously.

[nocl]

44 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Port agreements need to be signed.  Once that's done, I think there's one more step to be taken, of which I am forgetting currently, but I know @nocl has mentioned previously.

If a line is going the vaccinated route

 

Port Agreements

 

Documents signed by senior management attesting that the vaccination levels will be at least 95% for passengers and 98% for crew

 

Submission of plan to CDC for review and approval.

[TeeRick]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:18 PM, TrulyBlonde said:

RE: Vaccinated or not vaccinated. and being allowed into certain venues. My daughter knows of someone who is currently selling fake vaccine ID cards. Let us all just pray that we are as protected as promised. 

This will be the new problem and I certainly do not trust the many who will now be maskless to be honest. 

Your daughter should turn this person into the health authorities.  That would be the right thing to do even if anonymously.

[TeeRick]

So the CDC has changed guidelines by following the science and saying the fully vaccinated do not need to wear masks in most indoor and outdoor situations.   In my state (PA) the governor has said that we will follow the new CDC guidelines immediately for the fully vaccinated.   He has decided that masks will be required for everybody else (non-vaccinated) until the state reaches 70% fully vaccinated.  We are at 45% but the rate has very much slowed down.  So get vaccinated and ditch the mask!  Also PA is removing other COVID restrictions like reduced capacity dining after Memorial Day.   In my normal trips around to grocery store, church, etc. everybody still seems to have a mask on.  I think nobody quite believes the change.  Wonder how long it will take for vaccinated people to remove masks?

 

What is happening in your state and locality?

[jelayne]

The mask mandate was dropped awhile ago but many continued to wear masks.  Guesstimate of 65-75 percent.  Most retail establishments continued to “require”
 masks and restaurants required a mask when entering or leaving.  Social  distancing signs, floor markings, one way isles were posted.  
 

Friday I went out to run errands and do some shopping.   Masks were very few except for store employees.  Social distancing signs and floor marking were removed in some stores.  We went to a small wedding (50-60) and only 1 person had a mask. 

[cangelmd]

26 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

So the CDC has changed guidelines by following the science and saying the fully vaccinated do not need to wear masks in most indoor and outdoor situations.   In my state (PA) the governor has said that we will follow the new CDC guidelines immediately for the fully vaccinated.   He has decided that masks will be required for everybody else (non-vaccinated) until the state reaches 70% fully vaccinated.  We are at 45% but the rate has very much slowed down.  So get vaccinated and ditch the mask!  Also PA is removing other COVID restrictions like reduced capacity dining after Memorial Day.   In my normal trips around to grocery store, church, etc. everybody still seems to have a mask on.  I think nobody quite believes the change.  Wonder how long it will take for vaccinated people to remove masks?

 

What is happening in your state and locality?

Masks are only seen among store employees. I have stopped wearing my mask except when I forget and put it on.

But I have not been gone from home for the last week, and the places I’ve been have never had high compliance with masking.

we will see what it is like back home.

It will be a long time before we stop masking at work - I will likely be retired by then

 

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

So the CDC has changed guidelines by following the science and saying the fully vaccinated do not need to wear masks in most indoor and outdoor situations.   In my state (PA) the governor has said that we will follow the new CDC guidelines immediately for the fully vaccinated.   He has decided that masks will be required for everybody else (non-vaccinated) until the state reaches 70% fully vaccinated.  We are at 45% but the rate has very much slowed down.  So get vaccinated and ditch the mask!  Also PA is removing other COVID restrictions like reduced capacity dining after Memorial Day.   In my normal trips around to grocery store, church, etc. everybody still seems to have a mask on.  I think nobody quite believes the change.  Wonder how long it will take for vaccinated people to remove masks?

 

What is happening in your state and locality?

We arrived in Provincetown, MA yesterday and masks are no longer required and very few people are wearing one.  Still when entering a restaurant and even outdoor patio dining, still need to mask up until seated.  I’ll be good with it though sitting on a patio looking out at PTown harbor, sans mask, almost makes me delirious!!

[Ashland]

I'm happy our country is moving forward. Even though I'm vaccinated I'm in no rush to take off my mask...I will over time but I think I'll take it a bit slow right now.

I always wade into the water I never jump in head first...JMHO

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

What is happening in your state and locality?

Our governor removed the mask mandate and now it is up to local businesses to decide.

 

Taking the dog for a walk the attitude was party, party, and party.  The graduation parties of 50 or more are being conducted with live bands.  These are some of the largest get togethers I have seen in the neighborhood since the pandemic began.

 

Overall 60 to 70 percent are wearing their masks right now.  I think that this will slowly change as people once again become comfortable not wearing one.  There is also some uncertainty as to which businesses still require them.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by NMTraveller

[RedneckBob]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:00 PM, cruisestitch said:

New announcement today, so now what??????

Oh no, no more mask! Is this the end of “Hi, ho, Silver, away” 😁

 

Does that help defuse some of the posts.

[TrulyBlonde]

Just came home from a staycation in Vail which is less than 2 hours away from us. No masks outdoors but the hotel we stayed at required them when entering and the restaurant requires them when entering and leaving. This is supposed to change in the next few days in Eagle county. 

Our 1st time having dinner and breakfast indoors and it all felt rather normal and a breath of fresh air.

I felt safe.

[ch175]

9 minutes ago, abbydancer said:

 

I spend a lot of time in stores.  I'll probably wear mine when in crowded places for a while.  It doesn't bother me and it doesn't hurt so why not?  I also don't trust the unvaccinated to follow the rules, so the mask will stay.

Is there evidence that masks do anything to slow the spread of COVID? There’s over a year of data now. States with mandates, states without. States that had no mandate, then did, then took it away. I don’t see much difference when actually looking at real world data.

[d9704011]

1 minute ago, ch175 said:

Is there evidence that masks do anything to slow the spread of COVID? There’s over a year of data now. States with mandates, states without. States that had no mandate, then did, then took it away. I don’t see much difference when actually looking at real world data.

Where is this data?  I don’t suppose you could consolidate it and make it available for all of us?  Also, how would we know what might have happened if people had not worn masks?

[jgmorgan]

6 minutes ago, ch175 said:

Is there evidence that masks do anything to slow the spread of COVID? There’s over a year of data now. States with mandates, states without. States that had no mandate, then did, then took it away. I don’t see much difference when actually looking at real world data.

One of many articles:

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

 

Another from my home state:

 

https://www.vumc.org/health-policy/news-events/tennessee-areas-without-mask-requirements-have-higher-death-toll-capita