I heard a real quick discussion of whether the government should save the cruise industry

[DarrenM]

seems to be some very narrow views on this topic.

 

All industries need to be saved, by all governments.

 

Letting the cruise industry disappear is the thin end end of a very large wedge.

 

This is not about market forces or any other financial nonsense.

 

Just for once in their very greedy lives the money men/women need to get their collective heads out of their greed is good backsides, and realise this is a world issue, and therefore the finacial markets need a coat of reality check and a realignment.

 

Of course it wont happen, and the same greedy few that benefited and won during the financial crash will win again.

 

Leisure, Travel, restuarants, construction, taxi drivers, amongst the many others, all need to be saved, otherwise whats the point of what is happening now?

 

Unless we all want to live in a post apocolyptic world, where the few segregate themselves from the masses to protect their own.

 

[DarrenM]

and lets face it. Where else are you going to vacation?

 

Do you think all of those other destinations will survive this without Government help?

 

Will any airlines?

 

Holiday resorts within your own country?

 

Even if they do, will there be restaurants or bars to visit?

 

Unless massive financial help is given foreign holidays will once again be reserved for the rich and famous. As was the case prior to package holidays in the late 60s.

 

Every industry is on the verge of collapse. Its madness.

[AF-1]

The United States gov't bailed out the auto and airline industry in the past; for one reason.  They are both critical transportation means and provide to the economic gross domestic product of the United States. People need autos to deliver products to grocery stores, department stores etc;  people need autos to get to work; some people commute over an hour to work. The transportation system consists of 18 wheel trucks delivering supplies all over the country, airplanes deliver mail, parts, and passengers to and from hubs around the world  The car and airplane have made it easier for people to conduct meetings both internationally and here in the states.  For this reason the federal gov't has bailed them out in the past and will most likely do it again.  The cruise industry regardless of how much money they have on hand do not provide a essential transportation system for the United States.  They are a transportation system that provides a floating vacation to people.  The President of the United States can fly AF-1 to Europe and meet three or four world leaders in a matter of hours and not days.  Before we had jets; our President would have to get on a ship and sail across the ocean; taking up to five days just to cross and then hold meetings with world leaders in Europe.  The airplane has made the world much smaller in terms of meetings, and work for hundreds of companies.  Yes they do provide an easy transportation system for families to take vacations around the world; but none the less; they provide a vital part of the US transportation system.  Case in point.  The US Air Force flew a cargo plane to Italy last week to pick up and deliver over 500,000 Corona test kits.  They delivered them to FED EX headquarters in Memphis; and FED EX delivered them around the United States.   In less than 24 hours this was accomplished; verses putting these test kits on a ship; which would have taken weeks to deliver.  Have a wonderful day

[sparks1093]

36 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

and lets face it. Where else are you going to vacation?

 

Do you think all of those other destinations will survive this without Government help?

 

Will any airlines?

 

Holiday resorts within your own country?

 

Even if they do, will there be restaurants or bars to visit?

 

Unless massive financial help is given foreign holidays will once again be reserved for the rich and famous. As was the case prior to package holidays in the late 60s.

 

Every industry is on the verge of collapse. Its madness.

Rome is going to disappear? The Grand Canyon will be filled in? Honolulu will become a ghost town? Aspen will stop receiving snow? We may need to adjust how we vacation but there will still be places to go and see. Businesses may go out of business but eventually other businesses will rise up to take their place.

[Cruiser_1977]

@DarrenM Where is your data to back up the claim that "Every industry is on the verge of collapse." Yes, some businesses may go under but the term industry is very big and broad.

 

 

[pacruise804]

@DarrenM could you give us a sarcasm acknowledgement (or maybe state when you aren't being sarcastic 😉 ) so we know if a post is serious.  I sense most of your posts are dry humor - and sometimes I even get the joke - but I think I've seen serious from you too.  Many of us are on edge and it isn't always easy to discern a serious post from a joke.  Thanks (and I do appreciate the attempts at humor).

[DarrenM]

30 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Rome is going to disappear? The Grand Canyon will be filled in? Honolulu will become a ghost town? Aspen will stop receiving snow? We may need to adjust how we vacation but there will still be places to go and see. Businesses may go out of business but eventually other businesses will rise up to take their place.

Ah thats alright then. If your last sentence is correct it wont be in your lifetime.

 

And out of interest, how you planning on getting to Rome?

[sparks1093]

12 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Ah thats alright then. If your last sentence is correct it wont be in your lifetime.

 

And out of interest, how you planning on getting to Rome?

I own a rowboat.😂 It wouldn't be by cruise ship and that's what this thread is about- bailing out the cruise industry. The airline industry is a different topic, and if airfares happen to be exorbitant because airlines are trying to recoup their loses then I wouldn't vacation in Rome or any place else that would require me to fly. Again, as I believe has been mentioned several times in this thread cruising is not a necessary activity the same way that air travel is. I know that a couple of restaurants went bust in our town because of the economic turmoil in 2008. Several restaurants have opened since that time. They may go bust because of this pandemic since they've been forced to close. Once this is pandemic is done I fully expect that someone would make a go of opening a new restaurant to take their place and if they don't then we eat at home.

[ed01106]

21 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Ah thats alright then. If your last sentence is correct it wont be in your lifetime.

 

And out of interest, how you planning on getting to Rome?

It is entirely possible that every single airlines will go thru bankruptcy.  But that won’t end air traffic.  The planes will be sold for pennies on the dollar and new companies will emerge.  The new airline will employee many of the former laid off workers.

 

Every cruise line could go bankrupt, but the ships will remain.  Maybe not all of them some might become scrap.  But someone will buy some of them and start new companies.

 

Same with many hotels.  Some might get torn down or converted to apartments.  But just because a hotel goes bankrupt does not mean the building collapses.

 

Restaurants will go out of business and new ones will open.  

 

Many of today’s business empires were built by buying depressed assets during the 1930s. 

[navybankerteacher]

28 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Ah thats alright then. If your last sentence is correct it wont be in your lifetime.

 

And out of interest, how you planning on getting to Rome?

  I hope you realize that there are people whose lifetimes are ongoing who were around in the 1930’s - when many activities did collapse, and then grew back stronger than ever.

 

Airplanes will continue to fly - and cruise ships will  resume transAtlantic repositionings (perhaps under different ownership) so getting to Rome will still happen.

 

I suggest you sit down, take a deep breath and try not to panic.

[DarrenM]

Oh I am not panicking. I was merely highlighting what might happen, and could, if governments dont step in. Or the governments bite the bullet and tell people its business as usual, stop self isolating and crack on.

 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, ed01106 said:

I would go as far as to say if cruise lines disappeared, it would have a net positive effect on the domestic tourism industry.  More money stays in Florida/USA if I fly to Miami and spend a week in hotels, eat at restaurants, visit local attractions etc than if I go on a cruise.

 

 

We have never considered going to Florida except when we flew there to go on cruises.

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We have never considered going to Florida except when we flew there to go on cruises.

Let me make one small correction. We did once go to Florida to Disney and to visit DW's aunt when our son (who is now in his 40s) was very young.

[ed01106]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We have never considered going to Florida except when we flew there to go on cruises.

So what?  If you didn’t cruise you would do something.  And for most people that would involve domestic travel.  Yeah, some people would go overseas, but many more would do land based domestic vacations.  Orlando theme parks are way more important to Florida tourism than the small number of people who fly in the one night before. No cruises mean more dollars spent at land based attractions.  The cruise lines literally send US dollars overseas. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Let me make one small correction. We did once go to Florida to Disney and to visit DW's aunt when our son (who is now in his 40s) was very young.

 

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

We have never considered going to Florida except when we flew there to go on cruises.

You are certainly in the minority: about 30 million WORLD WIDE cruise each year, while about 125 million visit Florida each year.  Too many people buy the hype the cruise trade association puts out about their significance to the nation’s economy.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

You are certainly in the minority: about 30 million WORLD WIDE cruise each year, while about 125 million visit Florida each year.  Too many people buy the hype the cruise trade association puts out about their significance to the nation’s economy.

But are the people who cruise primarily not the Caribbean those who would end up doing a domestic vacation? Our last non-cruise vacation was to Peru. Before that to Central Europe. Before that to Paris and Amsterdam. And before that I forget which order London and Scotland.

[JMorris271]

6 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Rome is going to disappear? The Grand Canyon will be filled in? Honolulu will become a ghost town? Aspen will stop receiving snow? We may need to adjust how we vacation but there will still be places to go and see. Businesses may go out of business but eventually other businesses will rise up to take their place.

Mud in your brain?

 

[navybankerteacher]

16 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But are the people who cruise primarily not the Caribbean those who would end up doing a domestic vacation? Our last non-cruise vacation was to Peru. Before that to Central Europe. Before that to Paris and Amsterdam. And before that I forget which order London and Scotland.

Immaterial.  A very large number of US cruisers ARE Caribbean cruisers. Many have no passports, so the vacation dollars they spend in lieu of cruising would be spent in the US - and not paid to foreign corporations.  So, even is the cruise industry slowed down while being reorganized, there would not be enough avoidable damage to the US economy to justify any expenditures to “save” it.

 

Your overseas travel, while interesting, has nothing to do with the question of “saving” the cruise industry.

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, JMorris271 said:

Mud in your brain?

 

Nope, but it's on my tires.🤣

[ed01106]

20 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But are the people who cruise primarily not the Caribbean those who would end up doing a domestic vacation? Our last non-cruise vacation was to Peru. Before that to Central Europe. Before that to Paris and Amsterdam. And before that I forget which order London and Scotland.

Explain how some switching from a med cruise to a land based tour of Europe harms the US tourism industry.  That switch would be completely neutral.  

 

If someone would have spent a day in New Orleans before their cruise shifts to a Europe land tour that harms the US a little.

 

If someone switch from a med cruise to a US land based vacation the port city suffers a tiny bit but the new destination benefits a lot.  

 

Most of the Caribbean cruisers  are likely to choose Florida, New Orleans or other US destination.  Although some might choose Mexico or fly to a Caribbean island.

 

Folks that switch from an Asian cruise to a land tour in Asia have no effect on US economy.  

 

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Immaterial.  A very large number of US cruisers ARE Caribbean cruisers. Many have no passports, so the vacation dollars they spend in lieu of cruising would be spent in the US - and not paid to foreign corporations.  So, even is the cruise industry slowed down while being reorganized, there would not be enough avoidable damage to the US economy to justify any expenditures to “save” it.

 

Your overseas travel, while interesting, has nothing to do with the question of “saving” the cruise industry.

 

Hmmm, might be a new way to boost our home economy -- cancel all passports!  😄😀

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Hmmm, might be a new way to boost our home economy -- cancel all passports!  😄😀

Good suggestion - but with air travel closing down,  passports don’t matter that much.

[navybankerteacher]

30 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Nope, but it's on my tires.🤣

Even if you drive on a beach?

[mountbiker]

On 3/12/2020 at 1:07 PM, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Their ships sail under foreign flags, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the company is non-US owned. For instance, Carnival Corp (Carnival, Princess...) is a U.S company based in Florida.

I was reading an article today that said the 3 top cruise lines do not pay any US taxes.. If this is in fact true I don’t feel we as tax payers owe them anything. 

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, mountbiker said:

I was reading an article today that said the 3 top cruise lines do not pay any US taxes.. If this is in fact true I don’t feel we as tax payers owe them anything. 

I understand that, aside from Social Security on the salaries of their US based staff (not very many) they pay next to nothing.