Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

[pully8]

Personal milestones like birthdays, births, marriages and deaths have all been a feature of this pandemic and will continue to be.

Our family and many others have experienced grief related to this pandemic,  not all travel is for pleasure.

Decision makers need to be guided by hard data, if they are any good, no crystal balls.

People are expecting leadership based on facts.

Many are capable of reading/understanding academic papers around vaccines/clinical trials and virus mutations.

As said time will tell how this pans out but reasonable people will not be happy to wait indefinitely for  some sort of road map based on facts.

 

 

  

 

 

[NSWP]

8 minutes ago, pully8 said:

Personal milestones like birthdays, births, marriages and deaths have all been a feature of this pandemic and will continue to be.

Our family and many others have experienced grief related to this pandemic,  not all travel is for pleasure.

Decision makers need to be guided by hard data, if they are any good, no crystal balls.

People are expecting leadership based on facts.

Many are capable of reading/understanding academic papers around vaccines/clinical trials and virus mutations.

As said time will tell how this pans out but reasonable people will not be happy to wait indefinitely for  some sort of road map based on facts.

 

 

  

 

 

Amen to that, hardly any of my family could get down here for the funeral of my wife in May.  Max 10 mourners and no one from interstate.

 

The inability to cruise is miniscule compared to   other family constraints.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by NSWP

[Elorac123]

1 hour ago, getting older slowly said:

Very good point  Pully..... I think that is what people would like....... so they can plan

 

a glimmer of hope...... We have a cruise in Nov 2021.... but it is looking less and less likely..

 

and I am very iffy about going to Tassie at the end of March for BH's birthday....

 

Don

Yes I have cancelled my Feb 8 th to Tasmania I would like to relax there,not waiting for the news each day to say go home now or Quarantine 

Cheers Carole

[OzKiwiJJ]

31 minutes ago, pully8 said:

 

Decision makers need to be guided by hard data, if they are any good, no crystal balls.

People are expecting leadership based on facts.

Many are capable of reading/understanding academic papers around vaccines/clinical trials and virus mutations.

As said time will tell how this pans out but reasonable people will not be happy to wait indefinitely for  some sort of road map based on facts.

 

 

  

 

 

But that IS the problem, no-one knows what the facts are as they keep changing. People can make predictions based on what the conditions are today but that's about as reliable as that crystal ball. We have to be patient until things settle down, until it's known what effect the vaccines are having, until the scientists are confident the virus isn't going to mutate into something ten times as deadly, until other countries show they can control the virus to an acceptable level. Until then there is no point in whinging about it  we just have to make the most of what we can do, where we can go, and hope that one day we'll be able to go overseas again. We have no choice but to wait.

[pully8]

Thanks for your reply.

Admire your patience.

Strength courage and wisdom to the decision makers.

Eventually may we all be permitted to exercise our own decisions around an acceptable level of risk.

Until then we will watch with interest.

Take care.  

[possum52]

2 hours ago, NSWP said:

I hope so Young Leigh, i would like one more cruise before i go to the big cruise terminal in the sky. How good is the test match, 10 to win, 25 balls remaining.

It was almost like a T20 match in the last hour Les. India deserved the win with such an inexperienced team. I'm a bit disappointed in the Aussies actually. They just didn't have an answer to the Indian batsmen.

 

 

2 hours ago, NSWP said:

We can only hope the ships will arrive here.

Yep. we have a cruise booked to PNG for November but it is looking more and more that it will be cancelled. I assume Covid vaccinations will be compulsory to cruise, which I am ok with but the talk of quarantine still continuing for some time even after international travel is allowed is interesting. 

 

Leigh

[mr walker]

13 hours ago, pully8 said:

Eventually may we all be permitted to exercise our own decisions around an acceptable level of risk.

To ourselves or to others?

I suggest for the most part sensible people assess risk for themselves & for others on an on-going basis throughout their lives. Others not so much.

[Porky55]

A slight turn away from (but still about) International travel, the discussion of Visa for EU travel was being discussed this morning on FB. We have had the Schengen Agreement for decades now allowing Aussies to travel to most of EU without needing to apply for Visas. This is set to change from the end of 2022 with Australian Passport holders needing to apply for an ETIAS. 

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-mandatory-end-2022

Countries where we have a Bilateral Visa Agreement and aren’t part of the new ETIAS:

Albania

Armenia

Belarus

Bosnia & Herzegovina

Bulgaria

Croatia

Cyprus

Georgia

Ireland

Kosovo

Moldova

Montenegro

North Macedonia (Republic of North Macedonia)

Romania

Serbia

United Kingdom

Edited January 19, 2021 by Porky55

[mr walker]

12 hours ago, possum52 said:

It was almost like a T20 match in the last hour Les. India deserved the win with such an inexperienced team. I'm a bit disappointed in the Aussies actually. They just didn't have an answer to the Indian batsmen.

I see that 'fans' are complaining about team selections, our batting lineup etc. Whilst there were some strange selections in the batting lineup, the fact is that we scored enough runs to win & had our top 4 bowlers for all 4 tests, and we lost because we couldn't bowl India out. The single biggest reason we lost the series is Pujara. His stubborn resistance just wore our bowlers out.

Oh well, bring on the footy!!!!!

[ilikeanswers]

19 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

A slight turn away from (but still about) International travel, the discussion of Visa for EU travel was being discussed this morning on FB. We have had the Schengen Agreement for decades now allowing Aussies to travel to most of EU without needing to apply for Visas. This is set to change from the end of 2022 with Australian Passport holders needing to apply for an ETIAS. 

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-mandatory-end-2022

Countries where we have a Bilateral Visa Agreement and aren’t part of the new ETIAS:

Albania

Armenia

Belarus

Bosnia & Herzegovina

Bulgaria

Croatia

Cyprus

Georgia

Ireland

Kosovo

Moldova

Montenegro

North Macedonia (Republic of North Macedonia)

Romania

Serbia

United Kingdom

 

I think to avoid confusion it should be stated this is a visa waiver for countries part of the Schengen Agreement (you could think of it as a Schengen Visa Waiver, not an EU visa waiver as I have seen it labelled😕). Too many times I have seen people think EU and Schengen are interchangeable😳 and it leads to a lot of misunderstanding. 

[lyndarra]

49 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think to avoid confusion it should be stated this is a visa waiver for countries part of the Schengen Agreement (you could think of it as a Schengen Visa Waiver, not an EU visa waiver as I have seen it labelled😕). Too many times I have seen people think EU and Schengen are interchangeable😳 and it leads to a lot of misunderstanding. 

Does that mean there are EU countries not part of Schengen? If so, I didn't realise that.

[ilikeanswers]

6 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

Does that mean there are EU countries not part of Schengen? If so, I didn't realise that.

 

Yes just as there are non EU countries that are Schengen. The numbers might be small but it still important to understand that the Schengen agreement is separate from the EU organisation:

Schengen Area – The World’s Largest Visa Free Zone

[Porky55]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Yes just as there are non EU countries that are Schengen. The numbers might be small but it still important to understand that the Schengen agreement is separate from the EU organisation:

Schengen Area – The World’s Largest Visa Free Zone

I got caught up in this very thing this morning ilikeanswers and just like me you are actually wrong.

The ETIAS replaces a carte Blanche travel entry to the Schengen Countries that has been in place since 1985:

 

ETIAS, or the European Travel Information and Authorization System (ETIAS) has already received the full backing of the European Union. The new security system is being implemented to reduce illegal immigration and to better protect against terrorist threats. Australians will be eligible to travel to European countries but will require travel authorization for Australian citizens to do so from the 2022 launch date.

This new system, however, permits Australians to travel to all 26 Schengen member states. This includes 22 EU member states such as France, Germany, Spain, and Italy in addition to 4 non-EU Schengen nations: Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein, and Switzerland

Edited January 20, 2021 by Porky55

[Porky55]

From 2023 there won’t be a Visa waiver in Europe anymore. We will have to apply for a ETIAS Visa to travel to most of EUROPE or individual Visas for some odd countries (Turkey for instance) A few remain with bilateral agreements - 

• Albania
• Armenia
• Belarus
• Bosnia & Herzegovina
• Bulgaria
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Georgia
• Ireland
• Kosovo
• Moldova
• Montenegro
• North Macedonia (Republic of North Macedonia)
• Romania
• Serbia
• United Kingdom

Recommend everyone familiarise themselves with the website. Going to Europe after 2022 will be like going to the USA - one will require an ETIAS and the other an ESTA.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/australians

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Porky55

[ilikeanswers]

54 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

I got caught up in this very thing this morning ilikeanswers and just like me you are actually wrong.

The ETIAS replaces a carte Blanche travel entry to the Schengen Countries that has been in place since 1985:

 

ETIAS, or the European Travel Information and Authorization System (ETIAS) has already received the full backing of the European Union. The new security system is being implemented to reduce illegal immigration and to better protect against terrorist threats. Australians will be eligible to travel to European countries but will require travel authorization for Australian citizens to do so from the 2022 launch date.

This new system, however, permits Australians to travel to all 26 Schengen member states. This includes 22 EU member states such as France, Germany, Spain, and Italy in addition to 4 non-EU Schengen nations: Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein, and Switzerland

 

I am not sure why you say I am wrong. Your highlighted statements back up what I said about it covering the Schengen Area and not EU. Your next post lists the EU non Schengen countries that are not included in the ETIAS. It seems pretty clear to me this only covers the Schengen Area🤔. Have I missed something😳? 

[NSWP]

It will take 2 or 3 years to clear up the covid mess in the Americas, UK and most of Europe, forget about the visas.

 

Trust Uncle Les.

Edited January 20, 2021 by NSWP

[Porky55]

40 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I am not sure why you say I am wrong. Your highlighted statements back up what I said about it covering the Schengen Area and not EU. Your next post lists the EU non Schengen countries that are not included in the ETIAS. It seems pretty clear to me this only covers the Schengen Area🤔. Have I missed something😳? 

I say you are wrong because your original reply on the subject has

Schengen Area – The World’s Largest Visa Free Zone

After 2022 this area will ease to exist as a Zone and we will need a visa to travel there.

The next post are all the countries we have a “bilateral agreement” with as to Visas. Nothing to do with Schengen 🤔

 Then I suggest people have a read of the ETIAS just like I had a read of your suggested Schengen Zone. 🙄

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Porky55

[Porky55]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

It will take 2 or 3 years to clear up the covid mess in the Americas, UK and most of Europe, forget about the visas.

 

Trust Uncle Les.

Trust you Les, just thought it interesting that this will be in the future and others might be interested.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Porky55

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Porky55 said:

I say you are wrong because your original reply on the subject has

Schengen Area – The World’s Largest Visa Free Zone

After 2022 this area will ease to exist as a Zone and we will need a visa to travel there.

The next post are all the countries we have a “bilateral agreement” with as to Visas. Nothing to do with Schengen 🤔

 Then I suggest people have a read of the ETIAS just like I had a read of your suggested Schengen Zone. 🙄

 

 

Oh I see the confusion. My link was in reply to a post about there being EU countries not in the Schengen Agreement. The link was to show the list of countries in the Schengen agreement. Nothing to do with the ETIAS. The reason I pointed out your bilateral list was because on the list are the EU countries that are not part of the Schengen Agreement. ETIAS only covers countries that are part of the Schengen Agreement which is an agreement separate to the EU. That was the whole point of my original post to which someone was replying to (and my reply to that reply seems to have started this whole confusion😜) that ETIAS should not be considered a visa waiver to the the EU, it only applies to the Schengen Area😉. I hope this reply makes more sense 😁. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[Porky55]

11 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

that ETIAS should not be considered a visa waiver to the the EU, it only applies to the Schengen Area😉. I hope this reply makes more sense 😁. 

Absolutely - I thought it was a good idea that we become aware of this change; on CC - considering so many of us book cruises years out 🙏🙂

[Chiliburn]

Royal Caribbean has canceled quantum’s Alaska season and it’s going to remain in Singapore until it’s Brisbane season.

I doubt the Alaska season will happen as Canada has it’s boarders closed.

 

Bring ovation down to sydney and start some  short cruises.

[Aus Traveller]

Because we cruise a lot with Princess, I read that section of the forum. I have cut and pasted a post by a regular cruiser (Caribill) that I think people on this section of the forum will find interesting. I know I could post  a link, but I feel it is easier for everyone if I do it this way. I hope that is OK. Here is the post:

 

Arnold Donald, President & CEO of CCL Corp., was interviewed during a financial seminar. Among his comments:

 

o The business basically has no income.  The pandemic shut down travel and CCL Corp is in the travel business.

 

o Have raised more that $19 billion through borrowing and new equity and have enough to go through 2021 with no revenue.

 

o If needed, have additional availability for debt and more equity raising.

 

o Return to cruising may be slower than return to normality in other industries.

 

o Destinations must be comfortable with cruising returning.

 

o Will be a staggered restart with a few ships at first. Expect full fleet to be sailing by the end of 2021.

 

o Initial restart will have enhanced procedures on board such as social distancing and the wearing of masks when appropriate. It will still be a cruise, going places and meeting people. There is plenty of room on a cruise ship for people to not be crowded.

 

o Capacity will initially be limited as crew gets used to all the new procedures.

 

o Testing is required for crew. Current crew protocols require masks and, as appropriate, social distancing. A crew member experiencing any Covid-19 symptoms is required to report them immediately, be isolated and have contract tracing. If testing positive, have access to proper care.

 

o As far as testing and vaccines, must see how the use of vaccines evolve and what makes the most sense for both passengers and crew.

 

o Can do PCR testing on board the ships.

 

o He is impressed by how many customers have inquired about how the crews are doing.

 

o 2021 will be better than 2020 as far as the pandemic is concerned:

- vaccines becoming available

- better testing options

- better treatment protocols for those who become infected

 

o He expects to be able to get back to the "happy place" we were before.

 

(Many thanks to Caribill)

 

[Chiliburn]

Singapore May be adding more ships after February.

If there’s no hiccups the short cruises will have a port call in Malaysia.

Voyager of the seas will be one of the ships , I don’t think there’s a carnival ship.
 

 Surely we could have a ship or two.  Ovation and Pacific Rust  , just to set some standards.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Fingers crossed our SA Proud Mary river cruise next month looks like it will go ahead. They contacted me earlier to say they had been notified that the SA border restrictions will be eased on Saturday. Also Victoria have announced they will probably change their border restrictions for Greater Sydney tomorrow which means we could stick to our original booking plan of driving down via Hay. The alternate would have been going via Broken Hill which avoids crossing Victoria but adds an extra day onto the travel time. And with bit more luck we might be able to come home via Melbourne and catch up with family and friends there. We're also hoping to go down to Kangaroo Island after the river cruise.

[mr walker]

2 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Fingers crossed our SA Proud Mary river cruise next month looks like it will go ahead. They contacted me earlier to say they had been notified that the SA border restrictions will be eased on Saturday. 

We will be following along on your SA trip. While the river cruise we were planning was all booked out, we haven't given up hope of getting to do one soon