Masks probably required

[L454S]

39 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

This was specifically relating to the fact that masks reduce the spread of Covid though. That won't change. 

 

You speak as if there is no other way to think. As if you are right and no one can contest your "truths". Good luck with that.......I wish you the best.

One of the reasons I tend to discount masks is that unless they are used properly( trained to do so) they are utterly useless for the wearer and me. Almost ALL wearers today are not trained in the least. And the use of neck gaiters is a sad excuse for stopping virus spreading, but it makes people FEEL better.

[Mapleleafforever]

4 minutes ago, L454S said:

 

You speak as if there is no other way to think. As if you are right and no one can contest your "truths". Good luck with that.......I wish you the best.

One of the reasons I tend to discount masks is that unless they are used properly( trained to do so) they are utterly useless for the wearer and me. Almost ALL wearers today are not trained in the least. And the use of neck gaiters is a sad excuse for stopping virus spreading, but it makes people FEEL better.

Just get used to it. It's the "new norm" for the foreseeable future. No matter what my personal thoughts are regarding masks the fact is that they work to reduce the spread. Masks aren't about protecting the wearer......

[Tree_skier]

4 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson.

So in Canada, which science should we believe.  The science where Theresa Tam (Chief public health officer in Canada) says masks are of no benefit or the science where Tam says they may have a little  benefit or the science where Tam says Canadians better get used to wearing masks for a very long time.

[Mapleleafforever]

12 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

So in Canada, which science should we believe.  The science where Theresa Tam (Chief public health officer in Canada) says masks are of no benefit or the science where Tam says they may have a little  benefit or the science where Tam says Canadians better get used to wearing masks for a very long time.

We should believe the science that allows us to first procure enough masks for front line healthcare workers and then worry about masks for the general public. Her statements pretty much echo that thought. 

[Tree_skier]

But that wasn't what she said.  At a minimum, she has lied two out of three times.  You get to pick which two. Early on in the pandemic she said that closing borders was racist and that the biggest threat by far to Canada was increasing sinophobia.  All she does is parrot WHO "science" which has been corrupted by CCP propaganda. Unfortunately, the "science" has been corrupted by ideologue politicians and bureaucrats determined to advance an agenda in spite of evidence to the contrary.

 

The science I'll trust is my immune system, my own doctor and my own good judgement before I ever put my faith in anything remotely associated the govt. in Ottawa or the corrupt UN establishment that it parrots.

[Mapleleafforever]

3 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

But that wasn't what she said.  At a minimum, she has lied two out of three times.  You get to pick which two. Early on in the pandemic she said that closing borders was racist and that the biggest threat by far to Canada was increasing sinophobia.  All she does is parrot WHO "science" which has been corrupted by CCP propaganda. Unfortunately, the "science" has been corrupted by ideologue politicians and bureaucrats determined to advance an agenda in spite of evidence to the contrary.

 

The science I'll trust is my immune system, my own doctor and my own good judgement before I ever put my faith in anything remotely associated the govt. in Ottawa or the corrupt UN establishment that it parrots.

What? A government official lied?? Never LOL.

 

Back to the masks though it's just common sense that wearing one helps reduce the spread. To say otherwise is just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing. 

 

The inquiries (federal and provincial) regarding the handling of all this will be very interesting. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Mapleleafforever

[LMaxwell]

8 hours ago, L454S said:

 

One of the reasons I tend to discount masks is that unless they are used properly( trained to do so) they are utterly useless for the wearer and me. Almost ALL wearers today are not trained in the least. 

 

I agree that when used incorrectly, protective gear doesn't really meet its objectives; but in what manner are you observing that the gear is being improperly used and the conclude with absolute certainty that it is of no value and that almost all people are not using the gear properly?  Wouldn't logic say more emphasis should be placed on people using the gear properly? 

[LMaxwell]

10 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Correct.  I did not realize who I had posted my prior question to.  The science does not conform to his own exceptionalism and therefore he does not need to be courteous to those around him. Dang.  I wasted my time. 

[hazence]

23 hours ago, JCDCA said:

You do realize wearing masks in public, as inconvenient as it may be, reduces the spread of this disease, right?  Like, if we'd been actually staying home and actually wearing masks in public the last two months, we could probably be a lot closer to resuming cruising (and normal everyday life) right now.  

 

I thought this was interesting. My daughters hospital requires her to change her mask and gloves with every patient. But it was just a few weeks ago that they finally required the patients Coming into the hospital to wear masks as well.  Talking to .another friend today,  this was apparently “the science.” that most hospitals were following.

 

So...if the Doctors masks were being worn because of science that showed that MASKS protected the patient...why didn’t that same science require MASKS on patients...to protect the Doctors?

 

How did the Mask science change?
 

You can say that this was due to the “lie” preserving masks for Doctors.  But lots of you say...the mask is to protect OTHERS, not yourself.

 

So then, if Masks are so effective, why weren’t they, at the least,  making patients coming to the hospital wear them to protect the very same Doctors?
 

 

 

Patients and visitors required to wear masks when at Mayo Clinic Health System facilities

• MANKATO, Minn. – As the COVID-19 pandemic evolves, Mayo Clinic Health System continues to assess and adjust practices to best protect the safety of patients, visitors and staff.

Beginning Monday, April 13, patients and visitors will be required to wear a personal homemade or cloth mask while on any Mayo property and are highly encouraged to bring their own cloth masks to help conserve the supply of surgical masks for front-line medical staff. 

[xpcdoojk]

12 minutes ago, hazence said:

 

I thought this was interesting. My daughters hospital requires her to change her mask and gloves with every patient. But it was just a few weeks ago that they finally required the patients Coming into the hospital to wear masks as well.  Talking to .another friend today,  this was apparently “the science.” that most hospitals were following.

 

So...if the Doctors masks were being worn because of science that showed that MASKS protected the patient...why didn’t that same science require MASKS on patients...to protect the Doctors?

 

How did the Mask science change?
 

You can say that this was due to the “lie” preserving masks for Doctors.  But lots of you say...the mask is to protect OTHERS, not yourself.

 

So then, if Masks are so effective, why weren’t they, at the least,  making patients coming to the hospital wear them to protect the very same Doctors?
 

 

 

Patients and visitors required to wear masks when at Mayo Clinic Health System facilities

• MANKATO, Minn. – As the COVID-19 pandemic evolves, Mayo Clinic Health System continues to assess and adjust practices to best protect the safety of patients, visitors and staff.

Beginning Monday, April 13, patients and visitors will be required to wear a personal homemade or cloth mask while on any Mayo property and are highly encouraged to bring their own cloth masks to help conserve the supply of surgical masks for front-line medical staff. 

 

Simple answer fuzzy science.  If you learn something from TV or the internet you probably didn’t actually learn anything true.

 

jc

[Tree_skier]

I just got back from the hospital. My wife just had a small procedure done. In at 1230 out at 230. I walked the halls with her from the entrance to the area she needed to be and then left her there  and then returned to my vehicle down the same winding maze of hallways.  We were not given masks when we entered. We were encouraged to use the hand sanitizer. I saw many staff walking the halls and corridors. At least 50% were not wearing masks. This is one of the the larger hospitals in the Fraser regional health district in Greater Vancouver.  Apparently these medical professionals don't think masks are completely necessary even in a hospital.

 

In light of this thread I found it an interesting experience.

[hazence]

2 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

Simple answer fuzzy science.  If you learn something from TV or the internet you probably didn’t actually learn anything true.

 

jc

Sad but true. If you can read an actual sworn document, (or many) why allow the media to translate for you?  If you can watch an unedited video of a speech, why let the media tell you what was said?

[Tree_skier]

2 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

What? A government official lied?? Never LOL.

Exactly, but don't expect me to take anything they say at face value, ever.  I assume they are lying until it can be proven otherwise.

[joand452]

I better start sewing so we have clean ones for every day!

[Milwaukee Eight]

22 minutes ago, hazence said:

I thought this was interesting. My daughters hospital requires her to change her mask and gloves with every patient. But it was just a few weeks ago that they finally required the patients Coming into the hospital to wear masks as well.  Talking to .another friend today,  this was apparently “the science.” that most hospitals were following.

 

So...if the Doctors masks were being worn because of science that showed that MASKS protected the patient...why didn’t that same science require MASKS on patients...to protect the Doctors?

 

How did the Mask science change?
 

You can say that this was due to the “lie” preserving masks for Doctors.  But lots of you say...the mask is to protect OTHERS, not yourself.

 

So then, if Masks are so effective, why weren’t they, at the least,  making patients coming to the hospital wear them to protect the very same Doctors?

I’ll try to explain this one more time, sorta like the zip code thing. 
 

Your daughter should have been able to explain this to you (and thank her for her service on the frontline). 
 

Only N95+ masks protect the wearer.  Surgical masks, although pretty good, are worn to protect the patient. In the beginning, there was a huge shortage of N95+ masks and surgical masks. That supply is now being stocked and supplies are good. That’s why we were asked not to use up the inventory. It used to piss me off to go to the grocery store and seeing people using N95 masks, and worn improperly at that, with no eye protection. I said to myself, the boss can’t get one nor my son, both working in and around COVID19 patients in the hospital, but these people are using them improperly. Both now have good access to PPE including N95+ masks. 
 

Outside of healthcare , masks are worn to protect others from the wearer. Sure it might cut down on some viruses. 
 

The terrible thing about this virus, so many Asymptomatic with the virus. Unknown to them. Not wearing a mask while infecting others. 
 

Contact tracing is showing the likely sources are Asymptomatic people, many young and healthy people, who are not wearing a mask. This was the source (s) for a nursing home here. Temperature screening was of no value. 

My two cents.....

[Milwaukee Eight]

24 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

I just got back from the hospital. My wife just had a small procedure done. In at 1230 out at 230. I walked the halls with her from the entrance to the area she needed to be and then left her there  and then returned to my vehicle down the same winding maze of hallways.  We were not given masks when we entered. We were encouraged to use the hand sanitizer. I saw many staff walking the halls and corridors. At least 50% were not wearing masks. This is one of the the larger hospitals in the Fraser regional health district in Greater Vancouver.  Apparently these medical professionals don't think masks are completely necessary even in a hospital.

 

In light of this thread I found it an interesting experience.

That’s odd. I finally had my cataract surgery last Thursday that was cancelled because of COVID19. The boss, although a badged physician, couldn’t enter the outpatient surgery building. I was required to wear a mask. I wore it into the OR and it was still on when I came out to recovery room. They wheeled me out to the car. The boss never set foot in the surgery center. These are the requirements of our Governor. 
 

My two follow up visits the day after and today required me to wear a mask into the office. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[Tree_skier]

29 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

That’s odd. I finally had my cataract surgery last Thursday that was cancelled because of COVID19. The boss, although a badged physician, couldn’t enter the outpatient surgery building. I was required to wear a mask. I wore it into the OR and it was still on when I came out to recovery room. They wheeled me out to the car. The boss never set foot in the surgery center. These are the requirements of our Governor. 

My province has had the least restrictive measures in Canada and is in the top few in all of North America for the reasonableness of its approach. More industry and commercial businesses have been able to stay open than anywhere I have heard of. We have also had some of the best results and overall numbers.  

 

Currently in BC, with a population of just under 5 million there have been 2360 confirmed cases with 1832 fully recovered.  There are currently only 63 people in the hospital being treated for the C-virus and of those 63 only 16 are in the ICU.

 

My point in talking about all this is not to say that no protective measures should be taken but to counter those who think that the only way to effectively tackle this virus is with extreme draconian measures, essentially making people prisoners in there own home, calling people who do not wear mask selfish, and demonizing anyone who has a divergent opinion.  I do this because those same people here on Cruise Critic also appear to have some of the most extreme views on how and when cruising can return and what that return will look like.  I think there are simple and proven effective ways to minimize risks of infection.

 

Extreme and unreasonable measures invite people to flout the rules or rebel against those measures.  A reasonable approach invites compliance and in the long run provides more safety and security because the masses will buy in with greater enthusiasm.

 

Last week I went for a walk down by the river that has a well know walking trail and park associated with it.  There was probably a couple of hundred people who also had the same idea.  Everybody social distanced, everybody had a good time soaking in the sun and all were safe. Reasonableness will always have more success than any extreme measure. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Tree_skier

[Milwaukee Eight]

13 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

My point in talking about all this is not to say that no protective measures should be taken but to counter those who think that the only way to effectively tackle this virus is with extreme draconian measures, essentially making people prisoners in there own home, calling people who do not wear mask selfish, and demonizing anyone who has a divergent opinion. 

I agree. I have been out riding as much as possible. Weather here has simply been amazing for a good long ride. We went out and had dinner tonight. Every other table. It was great. Parts of Florida are not yet in Phase 1. South Florida is still pretty much a hot area for COVID19. Never really got as bad as forecast but still bad. It might be a week or two until they begin Phase 1. 

[mpaff]

36 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Extreme and unreasonable measures invite people to flout the rules or rebel against those measures.  A reasonable approach invites compliance and in the long run provides more safety and security because the masses will buy in with greater enthusiasm.

 

That is the reasonable approach but it is ALL political in the U.S. now.  

[broberts]

8 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

So in Canada, which science should we believe.  The science where Theresa Tam (Chief public health officer in Canada) says masks are of no benefit or the science where Tam says they may have a little  benefit or the science where Tam says Canadians better get used to wearing masks for a very long time.

 

Illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the scientific process. What is known today informs current thinking. As more data becomes known, thinking changes.

 

Insisting that a scientist must not change is just silly.

[Ocean Boy]

31 minutes ago, mpaff said:

 

That is the reasonable approach but it is ALL political in the U.S. now.  

And for better or worse plenty of people don't trust a word that comes out of those political mouths. And that distrust is reinforces by some of their political senseless actions.

[Tree_skier]

7 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the scientific process. What is known today informs current thinking. As more data becomes known, thinking changes.

 

Insisting that a scientist must not change is just silly.

Illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the political process.  What is said today means nothing tomorrow and when it is expedient they will tell you the opposite and call you racist for questioning their honesty.

 

Believing politicians and their appointed bureaucrats is just silly.

 

🙂 

[hazence]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’ll try to explain this one more time, sorta like the zip code thing. 
 

Your daughter should have been able to explain this to you (and thank her for her service on the frontline). 
 

Only N95+ masks protect the wearer.  Surgical masks, although pretty good, are worn to protect the patient. In the beginning, there was a huge shortage of N95+ masks and surgical masks. That supply is now being stocked and supplies are good. That’s why we were asked not to use up the inventory. It used to piss me off to go to the grocery store and seeing people using N95 masks, and worn improperly at that, with no eye protection. I said to myself, the boss can’t get one nor my son, both working in and around COVID19 patients in the hospital, but these people are using them improperly. Both now have good access to PPE including N95+ masks. 
 

Outside of healthcare , masks are worn to protect others from the wearer. Sure it might cut down on some viruses. 
 

The terrible thing about this virus, so many Asymptomatic with the virus. Unknown to them. Not wearing a mask while infecting others. 
 

Contact tracing is showing the likely sources are Asymptomatic people, many young and healthy people, who are not wearing a mask. This was the source (s) for a nursing home here. Temperature screening was of no value. 

My two cents.....

But if the science is that any homemade mask protects others from you...asking patients to wear some sort of covering would not have reduced those needed for hospitals.
 

Patients can be asymptomatic too. The DollarStore has never run out of bandanas...I-mean if the science is so set in stone.

 

And, of course, there’s also Chris Cuomo, confidante of Fauci, brother of the Governor,..and he KNOWS he has COVID, is feverish, and rides in a car,...unmasked... 30 minutes with his kids. 
 

Well, whatever. If people get comfort from the mask protocol, that’s worth something. But I sure wouldn’t rely on a masked cruise population to keep me safe from infection.

 

 

 

[broberts]

3 minutes ago, hazence said:

And, of course, there’s also Chris Cuomo, confidante of Fauci, brother of the Governor,..and he KNOWS he has COVID, is feverish, and rides in a car,...unmasked... 30 minutes with his kids. 

 

You do know that Chris Cuomo lives with his wife and children who also tested positive? 

 

Chris Cuomo is a journalist and tv presenter. It is no surprise that he knows Dr. Fauci. To suggest that Dr. Fauci consults with and takes advice from him strikes me as the fevered dreaming of a political operative.

[Lazz]

Has someone brought up the research that claims wearing a mask can lead to medical problems?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556/?fbclid=IwAR2pKbqtL8G9A5Nll-o6IGajqZZcvwXy80r59aFiYatyir-jiydDD2ECzeM

 

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/05/warning-prolonged-use-of-facemask-produces-hypoxia/?fbclid=IwAR2mBUOVFx5ELKHpfq7ejZXGS6BvHzarbmiN57yyNbSx2HBdadWOwfk2C3o