When will things start back up?

[clo]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Things will start back up only when a significant portion of the population is vaccinated as opposed to hunkered. 

Oh please. You and your "hunkering." We're vaccinated but still wearing masks, social distancing and just not being stupid. But I do believe that cruise lines are going to require proof of vaccination.

[pinotlover]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh please. You and your "hunkering." We're vaccinated but still wearing masks, social distancing and just not being stupid. But I do believe that cruise lines are going to require proof of vaccination.

About ten of we senior citizens couples had an early St Patrick’s Day Party last night. Admission consisted of our Covid vaccination record and an adult beverage ( byob). 
 

I’m sure you’d stayed  hunkered at home awaiting proof that fully vaccinated guests couldn’t spread the disease to other fully vaccinated guests. You wouldn’t have been missed. Fauci disciples would never have been expected to attend.

[clo]

15 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

and just not being stupid.

Actually I posted that.

[Paulchili]

10 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

Well, germane to the topic, Italy is locking down again. Entire country going to RED again.

 

You would think they'd  learned by now that lockdowns don't  work.

If you think lockdowns don’t work take a look at how Sweden did when compared to all its neighbors:

 

Denmark, Norway and Finland, with a combined population of around 16.75 million, have recorded 4,331 deaths attributed to coronavirus as of Thursday (259 per million). All three enforced lockdowns early on in the pandemic. Sweden, by contrast, has registered 12,798 deaths, and possesses a population 10.2 million, meaning it has a far higher death rate than its immediate neighbors (1,255 per million), according to Johns Hopkins University data.

These numbers are pretty clear - don’t need any further explanation.

Also:

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-criticized-as-country-sees-higher-death-toll-than-its-neighbors/

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89017

 

Nuff said.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Paulchili

[njhorseman]

49 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

If you think lockdowns don’t work take a look at how Sweden did when compared to all its neighbors:

 

Denmark, Norway and Finland, with a combined population of around 16.75 million, have recorded 4,331 deaths attributed to coronavirus as of Thursday (259 per million). All three enforced lockdowns early on in the pandemic. Sweden, by contrast, has registered 12,798 deaths, and possesses a population 10.2 million, meaning it has a far higher death rate than its immediate neighbors (1,255 per million), according to Johns Hopkins University data.

These numbers are pretty clear - don’t need any further explanation.

Also:

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-criticized-as-country-sees-higher-death-toll-than-its-neighbors/

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89017

 

Nuff said.

 

This ^^^ .

Sweden's chief epidemiologist was a proponent of attaining herd immunity by allowing exposure to COVID. His methodology was proven wrong and he even admitted as early as last June that if he had it to do all over again he would have taken a more balanced approach.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

 

He then backed off even further in November when he admitted there was little evidence that herd immunity was helping combat COVID-19:

https://fortune.com/2020/11/25/sweden-herd-immunity-antibodies-lockdown/

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-second-wave-coronavirus-cases-hospitalisations-surge-2020-11

Edited March 14, 2021 by njhorseman

[pinotlover]

Numbers are what numbers are. Neighboring County had a low Covid death rate while we had a much higher one.

 

That County has one small assisted living facility while we have multiple. A lot of their seniors come here for “ old folks homes”. Guess where the deaths are? 
 

We’re Code Red, they’re Yellow. We should have been telling them if they want to protect Grandma, come get her out!

Edited March 14, 2021 by pinotlover

[njhorseman]

Just now, pinotlover said:

Numbers are what numbers are. Neighboring County had a low Covid death rate while we had a much higher one.

 

That County has one small assisted living facility while we have multiple. A lot of their seniors come here for “ old folks homes”. Guess where the deaths are? 

The above coming from the same person who a couple of hours earlier posted an article by some AP "journalist" comparing COVID infections and deaths in CT vs SD and FL vs CA as if there were even an iota of scientific or mathematical sense in the piece...

[pinotlover]

11 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The above coming from the same person who a couple of hours earlier posted an article by some AP "journalist" comparing COVID infections and deaths in CT vs SD and FL vs CA as if there were even an iota of scientific or mathematical sense in the piece...

Want to compare the combined populations of all of the Baltic States to CA? I, nor that author, never compared rates of Napa County to LA. You claim to be an Actuary, but as I remember it size of sample base counts. 
 

Comparing US rates to total EU rates, with similar populations are valid. Comparing our rates to the Piedmont or Ruhr Valley, not so much.

 

It’s like People wanting to compare education outcomes in tiny homogeneous Sweden to CA. 
 

Comparing outcomes in CA versus Florida isn’t nearly is abject.

Edited March 14, 2021 by pinotlover

[Paulchili]

19 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Numbers are what numbers are. Neighboring County had a low Covid death rate while we had a much higher one.

The reason why comparing Sweden to its neighbors makes more sense is because each country had a UNIFORM set of rules that they actually followed. That cannot be said about our States or even within any given State.

 

[pinotlover]

5 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

The reason why comparing Sweden to its neighbors makes more sense is because each country had a UNIFORM set of rules that they actually followed. That cannot be said about our States or even within any given State.

 

Yep! Always been hard to make that cowboy riding the range in eastern MT wear his mask just like his cousin riding the subway in NYC. One size fits All has always been a chore to explain and enforce. Maybe when we become the perfect socialist society.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

Nuff said.

 

There ya go again, trying to confuse them with the facts.

[clo]

52 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

That County has one small assisted living facility while we have multiple. A lot of their seniors come here for “ old folks homes”. Guess where the deaths are? 

Cases in nursing homes are down 80% nation according to the NYT.

[clo]

41 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Comparing outcomes in CA versus Florida isn’t nearly is abject.

Yeah. FL is a hot mess whereas CA keeps moving every day in the better direction.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Yep! Always been hard to make that cowboy riding the range in eastern MT wear his mask just like his cousin riding the subway in NYC. One size fits All has always been a chore to explain and enforce. Maybe when we become the perfect socialist society.

How many masked cowboys are riding in the streets of Dallas, Houston and Austin where wearing masks is almost a crime?

Don’t you think that Finland & Norway also have some less densely populated areas like our MT?

Let’s see how TX, MS and FL will do after spring break.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Paulchili

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Want to compare the combined populations of all of the Baltic States to CA? I, nor that author, never compared rates of Napa County to LA. You claim to be an Actuary, but as I remember it size of sample base counts. 
 

Comparing US rates to total EU rates, with similar populations are valid. Comparing our rates to the Piedmont or Ruhr Valley, not so much.

 

It’s like People wanting to compare education outcomes in tiny homogeneous Sweden to CA. 
 

Comparing outcomes in CA versus Florida isn’t nearly is abject.

I worked as an actuary for a couple of decades so that's not just claiming to be an actuary.

 

Sample size doesn't by itself guarantee a meaningful or accurate result. A smaller more appropriately chosen sample can produce a more accurate result than a a large but inappropriately chosen sample.

 

And again I remind you of the very distinct possibility that CA's numbers would have looked far worse if there had been no lockdown . We'll never know the answer to that question in California because lockdowns were imposed in early 2020 before infection rates had started to soar in that state. In states like NY and NJ that experienced very early serious infection rates the growth in the number of hospitalized patients leveled out after lockdowns were imposed, preventing the healthcare systems from becoming overwhelmed. At that stage of the game COVID-related hospitalizations were a far better metric of the spread of the virus than infection rates as there was insufficient testing to get an  accurate measure of how many people were infected and how fast the infection was spreading.

 

[Aloha 1]

11 hours ago, clo said:

Yeah. FL is a hot mess whereas CA keeps moving every day in the better direction.

 Seriously?? I live in FL and it's anything but a hot mess. We just had friends visit from Las Vegas and they say this is what freedom looks like compared to Nevada. Don't believe the liberal papers. They have an agenda.

[RJB]

12 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

 Seriously?? I live in FL and it's anything but a hot mess. We just had friends visit from Las Vegas and they say this is what freedom looks like compared to Nevada. Don't believe the liberal papers. They have an agenda.

+ 1

[njhorseman]

11 hours ago, clo said:

Yeah. FL is a hot mess whereas CA keeps moving every day in the better direction.

 

35 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

 Seriously?? I live in FL and it's anything but a hot mess. We just had friends visit from Las Vegas and they say this is what freedom looks like compared to Nevada. Don't believe the liberal papers. They have an agenda.

 

22 minutes ago, RJB said:

+ 1

Per COVID ActNow Florida's number of COVID infections per 100K residents is about 50% higher than Nevada's...21.4 vs 14.4, giving Florida the 7th highest infection rate in the country versus Nevada's ranking at #29.

https://covidactnow.org/?s=1666600

 

You might want to actually check some facts before accusing others, or the press, of having an agenda .

[kathy9]

It is still amazing to me that when I studied microbiology (granted it was many years ago) viruses were never classefied into political species. Why we wait to see when cruising will restart just be sensible. Wear a mask, wash your hands, maintain social distance and get vaccinated when it is your turn. Your choice of course! 

Travel safe!

 

[ORV]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

Per COVID ActNow Florida's number of COVID infections per 100K residents is about 50% higher than Nevada's...21.4 vs 14.4, giving Florida the 7th highest infection rate in the country versus Nevada's ranking at #29.

https://covidactnow.org/?s=1666600

 

You might want to actually check some facts before accusing others, or the press, of having an agenda .

It kind of gets to be an exercise in futility. There are certain mindsets that simply refuse to accept truth. Anything that their world view doesn't agree with is labeled fake news, liberal agenda etc. I fail to understand it, but just shake my head and am amazed at how many people have this thinking. It's really bad where I live, went to Walmart the other day and at least 50% were not wearing masks or were a noseout. This is in a town with a mask mandate. Stupidity seems to be a badge of honor with these groups. I'll keep doing curbside pickup for a while even though I'm fully vaccinated. 

[clo]

4 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

 Seriously?? I live in FL and it's anything but a hot mess. We just had friends visit from Las Vegas and they say this is what freedom looks like compared to Nevada. Don't believe the liberal papers. They have an agenda.

As do you. And what happens in Vegas isn't what happens in Reno.

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, kathy9 said:

Wear a mask, wash your hands, maintain social distance and get vaccinated when it is your turn. Your choice of course! 

If only everyone did this we wouldn’t need to discuss this issue at all.

[TrulyBlonde]

Geez....I wonder if one of the side effects of the vaccine is crankiness? There are a lot of mean and nasty comments on this board. Why does it always come down to  Politics? Be nice...we are all in this together and trying to live again.

[Aloha 1]

6 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

Per COVID ActNow Florida's number of COVID infections per 100K residents is about 50% higher than Nevada's...21.4 vs 14.4, giving Florida the 7th highest infection rate in the country versus Nevada's ranking at #29.

https://covidactnow.org/?s=1666600

 

You might want to actually check some facts before accusing others, or the press, of having an agenda .

You might want to re look at your source. Statistics can be made to say anything but according to your source , where I live the number of alleged cases is only 16.1 % per 100K. Infection rate is .91%, hardly the highest. The site claims only 25% have been vaccinated but the latest stat from our County (lake) says over 50% have been vaccinated. 

 

Look, we just differ in  we approach this. I wore a mask when shopping, social distanced, did take out only, and followed all the guidelines. Now, having been fully vaccinated, I still wear a mask  when shopping, eat out but outside because our handicapped son has only had his first shot, still social distance. Through all of this, we have been able to golf, work out outside, and fly (Delta). Still here. There is a great debate over how many deaths have been WITH Covid as opposed to FROM Covid. I am in the camp of far fewer than our our government claims. 

 

I cannot wait until we can get back to discussing food on board and ports of call. I think too many here have a severe case of cabin fever.

[njhorseman]

35 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

You might want to re look at your source. Statistics can be made to say anything but according to your source , where I live the number of alleged cases is only 16.1 % per 100K. Infection rate is .91%, hardly the highest. The site claims only 25% have been vaccinated but the latest stat from our County (lake) says over 50% have been vaccinated. 

 

Look, we just differ in  we approach this. I wore a mask when shopping, social distanced, did take out only, and followed all the guidelines. Now, having been fully vaccinated, I still wear a mask  when shopping, eat out but outside because our handicapped son has only had his first shot, still social distance. Through all of this, we have been able to golf, work out outside, and fly (Delta). Still here. There is a great debate over how many deaths have been WITH Covid as opposed to FROM Covid. I am in the camp of far fewer than our our government claims. 

 

I cannot wait until we can get back to discussing food on board and ports of call. I think too many here have a severe case of cabin fever.

If your area's infections are at 16.1 per 100K then it's still higher than Nevada's, so how does that disprove what I said? In any event I was citing a statewide FL to NV comparison, while you're trying to compare a county number to a statewide number. That's an invalid comparison. I can easily cite any number of counties in Nevada that have far lower infection rates than you've cited for yours . 

I made no mention of vaccination numbers, nor can I comment on an uncited data source .

I refuse to get into a discussion of comments like yours on COVID deaths that are totally unsupported by any evidence.