Can we ever truly trust the cruise lines?

[Donald]

Maybe you should also be asking if you can ever trust your fellow passengers.

Even if / when the mass market cruise lines are able to get it right, how many passengers will try to get around the system - even if they are ill - to avoid losing any money?

Its been happening with other illnesses for years. Why would COVID be any different?

[K32682]

16 hours ago, Donald said:

Maybe you should also be asking if you can ever trust your fellow passengers.

Even if / when the mass market cruise lines are able to get it right, how many passengers will try to get around the system - even if they are ill - to avoid losing any money?

Its been happening with other illnesses for years. Why would COVID be any different?

 

Cruise lines go to great lengths to prevent passengers from smuggling booze on board. One might think if they wanted to survive they'd take measures to ensure crew and passengers aren't coming on board with a potentially deadly virus or disembarking passengers into the community when they've got sick and isolated crew.

 

In the meantime Hurtigruten has shut down its cruises and its CEO is putting up a mealy-mouthed explanation.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/coronavirus-covid19-world-aug2-1.5672671

 

Quote

Norwegian cruise line Hurtigruten is halting all of its so-called expedition cruises until further notice following an outbreak of the novel coronavirus on one of its vessels last week, the company said on Monday.

At least 40 passengers and crew from the MS Roald Amundsen cruise liner have so far tested positive for the coronavirus, with hundreds more awaiting test results, public health officials said on Sunday.  

 

"A preliminary evaluation shows a breakdown in several of our internal procedures," chief executive Daniel Skjeldam said in a statement.

"Our own failure, as well as the recent rise in infections internationally, has led us to halt all expedition cruises in Norwegian and international waters."

Four crew members on the MS Roald Amundsen were hospitalized on Friday when the ship arrived at the port of Tromso, and later diagnosed with the respiratory illness. Tests showed another 32 of the 158 staff were also infected.

 

Among the infected crew, 32 were from the Philippines while the rest were of Norwegian, French and German nationality.

 

While foreign crew members were tested for the coronavirus before leaving their home countries, they were not tested in Norway and did not quarantine before starting work on the ship, the company said.

 

So far, four of the combined 387 passengers travelling on the ship on two separate cruises since July 17 have been found to carry the virus, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health (FHI) and the Tromsoe municipality said.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by K32682

[clo]

5 minutes ago, K32682 said:

In the meantime Hurtigruten has shut down its cruises and its CEO is putting up a mealy-mouthed explanation.

 

I'm not defending their actions (or non) but I don't consider this "mealy-mouthed."

 

“We have made mistakes. On behalf of all of us in Hurtigruten, I am sorry for what has happened,” Skjeldam said in a statement. “We take full responsibility.”

[K32682]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm not defending their actions (or non) but I don't consider this "mealy-mouthed."

 

“We have made mistakes. On behalf of all of us in Hurtigruten, I am sorry for what has happened,” Skjeldam said in a statement. “We take full responsibility.”

 

Fair enough.  I hadn't seen that part of their statement.  The mealy-mouthed part is when they start talking about the "recent rise in infections internationally" as an attempt to mitigate their own failures. 

[clo]

6 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

Fair enough.  I hadn't seen that part of their statement.  The mealy-mouthed part is when they start talking about the "recent rise in infections internationally" as an attempt to mitigate their own failures. 

I was just thinking that perhaps these lines, though not bound by it, should have waited for the CDC to give the go ahead with whatever restrictions they're going to require.

[chipmaster]

On 8/2/2020 at 9:39 AM, drsel said:

I would hate to see all those beautiful, brand new multi billion-dollar ships being sold as scrap

 

Look at the A380, built for another time and vision, sadly the world is governed by biology and not human wish.

[donaldsc]

Since when have we ever been able to trust the cruise lines - even in good times?

 

DON

[K32682]

33 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

Since when have we ever been able to trust the cruise lines - even in good times?

 

DON

 

In good times you might get a case of Norwalk. No fun but hardly fatal and unlikely you'd unknowingly pass it along. 

 

The stakes are much higher now and I don't think it's too much to ask that a cruise line come clean when it has infected crew.  Hurtigruten has failed the test.  The others have yet to be tested. 

[cbr663]

The situation is not looking good for Hurtigruten as this story continues to unfold.  Now there are allegations of a cover-up.  Norway's Health Minister stating that he has lost a lot of confidence in the cruise line.  Norway's Health Institute is now fearing a new nationwide outbreak and the police are investigating how the cruise line handled the outbreak.

 

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2020/08/03/hurtigruten-cancels-expedition-cruises/?fbclid=IwAR0IH3M1Nn2B-gkkr8tHyuNmCV7jGve2WgxEeUcBiqAYwjSyRBccmDSPOFg#.Xyh_2E_WQDM.messenger

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by cbr663

[iancal]

Has the cruise line industry or the cruise lines themselves given us a reason to trust them in the recent past?

 

 Speaking of  'flu like symptons'........trust but verify.

Edited August 5, 2020 by iancal

[K32682]

The Hurtigruten story gets worse

 

http://icepeople.net/2020/08/05/listicle-ten-reasons-the-covid-19-outbreak-aboard-the-hurtigruten-cruise-ship-roald-amundsen-is-controversial/

 

 

 

 

  

[cbr663]

Case count has now been updated to 53. 

 

https://www.itromso.no/nyheter/2020/08/05/53-personer-n%C3%A5-bekreftet-smittet-i-utbruddet-p%C3%A5-Hurtigruten-22422328.ece?fbclid=IwAR01xHk1kEADc4HOdR4bbV1yRuJGX7FXA4rN6VsFjrO38RFRUd2uV1O45DQ

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, K32682 said:

The Hurtigruten story gets worse

 

http://icepeople.net/2020/08/05/listicle-ten-reasons-the-covid-19-outbreak-aboard-the-hurtigruten-cruise-ship-roald-amundsen-is-controversial/

 

 

 

 

  

 

Not good at all...

 

[chipmaster]

On 8/2/2020 at 4:03 PM, Donald said:

Maybe you should also be asking if you can ever trust your fellow passengers.

Even if / when the mass market cruise lines are able to get it right, how many passengers will try to get around the system - even if they are ill - to avoid losing any money?

Its been happening with other illnesses for years. Why would COVID be any different?

 

As I get out and about and see how people in my more liberal and careful community react I'd be cautions to spend time on a ship even with this group.  Then I have my impression of what the more central and right group think/behave and I'll skip the cruise completely, LOL

[c-boy]

new developments on the front,  https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5532/

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, c-boy said:

new developments on the front,  https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5532/

We all should look back and remember all the posts after it was revealed that Australia was starting a criminal investigation of Princess and reflect on how so many automatically found Princess guilty of all sorts of things.

 

Thanks for posting that article.

[K32682]

Here's a slightly different take on the Ruby Princess. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53802816

 

Quote

Last week, an inquiry found New South Wales health authorities made "serious mistakes" in allowing about 2,650 passengers to disembark when the ship docked in Sydney in March.

 

Those people were not tested for the virus, despite suspected cases aboard.

 

 

If the mistake was the government letting people off the ship then the alternative would be a mandatory quarantine onboard until all passengers and crew were tested. 

 

The Ruby Princess has a crew and passenger complement of over 4,000. It would be a long time before those tests results were known for everyone.  This event now provides a clear incentive for national governments to impose a lengthy onboard quarantine if there is even a suspected case much less confirmed. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by K32682

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, K32682 said:

Here's a slightly different take on the Ruby Princess. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53802816

 

 

If the mistake was the government letting people off the ship then the alternative would be a mandatory quarantine onboard until all passengers and crew were tested. 

 

The Ruby Princess has a crew and passenger complement of over 4,000. It would be a long time before those tests results were known for everyone.  This event now provides a clear incentive for national governments to impose a lengthy onboard quarantine if there is even a suspected case much less confirmed. 

 

 

Which makes it clear that no rational authority should permit cruises to sail until covid is completely contained or easily curable.

 

Chipmaster's identification of the conservative rednecks as a major threat is valid -- but underlying it is the liberal concept that masks cannot be forcibly required with heavy penalties - logically imposed on the spot.

 

Bringing politics in is a two-edged sword -- better to leave political impressions out.

[K32682]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Which makes it clear that no rational authority should permit cruises to sail until covid is completely contained or easily curable.

 

Chipmaster's identification of the conservative rednecks as a major threat is valid -- but underlying it is the liberal concept that masks cannot be forcibly required with heavy penalties - logically imposed on the spot.

 

Bringing politics in is a two-edged sword -- better to leave political impressions out.

 

Even if an irrational authority permits cruises it's hard to see why a rational person would take one. 

 

[Been There, Planning That]

22 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

Bringing politics in is a two-edged sword -- better to leave political impressions out.

 

I completely agree.  Politics seems to creep into too many CC threads.

 

Ruth

[c-boy]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

Even if an irrational authority permits cruises it's hard to see why a rational person would take one. 

 

some peoples pleasures  can be  some one else's purgatory ... go figure 

[Charles4515]

 
Even if an irrational authority permits cruises it's hard to see why a rational person would take one. 
 

I won’t think about taking one until there is a vaccine and a therapeutic. And even then I won’t be in a hurry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[BlueRiband]

Some posts here accuse cruise lines of being callous and uncaring businesses who take any shortcuts possible to avoid paying for the proper procedures to keep their passengers and crews safe.  If this is true why would anybody patronize any cruise line ever again?  Just write it off as something that was fun and a good value while it lasted but you've now seen their bad side you're finished and done with it.

 

 

 

[ldubs]

23 minutes ago, BlueRiband said:

Some posts here accuse cruise lines of being callous and uncaring businesses who take any shortcuts possible to avoid paying for the proper procedures to keep their passengers and crews safe.  If this is true why would anybody patronize any cruise line ever again?  Just write it off as something that was fun and a good value while it lasted but you've now seen their bad side you're finished and done with it.

 

 

Under the current circumstances, I'm not sure that it is even possible for a cruise line to keep passengers safe, no matter how much money they throw at the problem.   They might, if honest, be able to prevent spread off the ship.   What really bothers me most about the Hurtigruten incident is that the ship's captain was involved.  

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

... What really bothers me most about the Hurtigruten incident is that the ship's captain was involved.  

Sadly, a lot of people will do a lot of unsavory things if they believe their continued employment and income is st stake.  Why would you expect more of a ship’s captain than of his superiors in the company?