Should Coronavirus Vaccination be Mandatory to Cruise?

[Donald]

If some pax do not have a vaccine, it increases the chance of an outbreak onboard the ship. If just one passenger has COVID, the chances are very great that the cruise will be cancelled and everyone sent home.

We saw how badly this was handled in the past - by the cruise lines and the local governments.

Is there any reason to believe that it would be better in the future?

 

Refusing to get a vaccine before a cruise (if it is even allowed by the cruise line and the destination ports) puts all other pax in danger of having their vacation ruined and losing a lot of money. It also endangers the crews’ health and their jobs. It is NOT all about you; it is all about US.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Throwing around terms like "anti-vaxxers" is just intellectual laziness.  The issue is far more nuanced than that.  There is a huge difference between a smallpox vaccine, where the disease doesn't change and is the same as it was back when Catherine the Great innoculated her own family with a crude early vaccine.  Compared to the flu with multiple strains and evolving strains, only a few of which can be included based on what they think might emerge.  There are also differences in individual health.  There is also the severity of the disease.  It really is OK to consider a variety of issues and make your decision.  And which way you decide in any case doesn't make you an annti-vaxxer.

The real problem seems to be the people that just get very upset if anyone questions their version of the one and only way to live.

 

I did not use the term as name calling.  I was referring to folks who do not believe vaccines are good things.  I thought the person I quoted fell in that group.  And, if it is deemed that a vaccine is required, then They will still have a choice to not take the vaccine and not go on the cruise.  If it is not required, then they are good.  

 

I simply prefer to follow the expert opinions of our public health officials.  Anyone is free to believe what they want, but hopefully will understand that believing it does not make it true.  

 

And, BTW, I am far from upset and was not the one who questioned how someone else wanted to live.  The poster I responded to questioned my post and didn't like my response.  Not the other way around.   

 

Edit:  Sorry - I thought you were the poster I had originally responded to.  So had to edit this.  

Edited September 20, 2020 by ldubs

[clo]

1 hour ago, wheezedr said:

The company’s will wish to avoid in any way possible the fiascos they found themselves in

I wonder also about their legal liability.

[chipmaster]

5 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

It's about choice.  Freedom to decide what personal risks we wish to take or not to take.   Those who choose to be vaccinated, good luck to them.  Leave the rest of us to make our own decisions.  Vaccines should not be mandated, on cruises or anywhere else.

 

Should freedom to choose personal risk  include drinking alcohol with out limits, using medication or drugs, smoking without limits etc. etc.   Should we be mandated to wear seat belts, shots/clothes etc. or any other rules that while not 100% effective impede on our freedom and enjoyment at the risk of impacting others, a slipper slope.

 

Take cruising should there be rules that limit your personal enjoyment or freedom of choiceeven if you want to take larger risk than others but that can materially increase risk for your fellow participants?

 

Sorry there are times for the larger community good there need to be some restrictions, already on cruises and other places I see too much acceptance and accommodations, some aren't a big deal but others when life/death even a small increase of risk shouldn't be choice, sure choose not to take the precautions give up the right to somethings, like attend public school, fly, or maybe cruise all fall into that.

 

Is it okay for your doctor, nurse delivering your child, fireman on-call,  or pilot flying your plane to the cruise, captain, steward, cook, server to take more risk  in his personal down time, before his next shift or do you believe he should lose some personal freedom for the safety of the larger crowd ?    Okay for them to practice questionable safety on their time off, do recreational drugs and a lot of alcohol, etc. etc.? 

Edited September 20, 2020 by chipmaster

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Or you could get vaccinated too and statistically cut your chances to 25%.

Funny how some will say they have a RIGHT to not be vaccinated and go anywhere will claim someone else has no right to forego a mask.

Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens seem to be very sensitive about their "rights'  - while not realizing that no one's rights are worth a bucket of warm spit (to quote one of our Vice Presidents) without other people fulfilling their obligation to respect them.

[GTO-Girl]

I would feel more comfortable cruising if everyone onboard has been vaccinated.

[clo]

7 minutes ago, GTO-Girl said:

I would feel more comfortable cruising if everyone onboard has been vaccinated.

And wear masks.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, clo said:

And wear masks.

But that “everyone” would have to include me — and somehow I do not think cruising and wearing masks (plus observing other necessary precautions) go that well together.  Fortunately, there are enough other things to do so I do not need to consider taking a pretend cruise.

[clo]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

But that “everyone” would have to include me — and somehow I do not think cruising and wearing masks (plus observing other necessary precautions) go that well together.  Fortunately, there are enough other things to do so I do not need to consider taking a pretend cruise.

Yep. I can't imagine that the CDC is going to release the no sail order without a mask requirements considering what Dr.s Redfield and Fauci have said in the last couple of days. I think we've done our last cruise. Not as big a deal for us as we've done fewer than ten I'm guessing.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, clo said:

Yep. I can't imagine that the CDC is going to release the no sail order without a mask requirements considering what Dr.s Redfield and Fauci have said in the last couple of days. I think we've done our last cruise. Not as big a deal for us as we've done fewer than ten I'm guessing.

Unless you are older than I think, I believe you are being unnecessarily pessimistic.  One way or the other, I am fairly confident that by 2023 (probably earlier) cruising without extraordinary precautions will be back.  Our December 2019-January 2020 was only our most recent cruise - I very much doubt it was our last.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Unless you are older than I think, I believe you are being unnecessarily pessimistic.

Oh probably so. Travel is the least thing I stress about. With COVID, fire, smoke travel doesn't even make it on the list. 

[George C]

I will most likely get a vaccine as soon as they are available. 

[pris993]

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves.  My initial thought is no, flu shots are not required now.  But, lets see what happens when virus is available to the masses. 

[navybankerteacher]

11 minutes ago, pris993 said:

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves.  My initial thought is no, flu shots are not required now.  But, lets see what happens when virus is available to the masses. 

Of course as populations grow and societies by necessity become more protective of their members, the option to choose or to opt out of immunizations is likely to be narrowed.  The more that individual people insist upon their right to reject optional immunizations, the more likely it is that societies will make such things mandatory rather than optional.

 

[pris993]

3 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course as populations grow and societies by necessity become more protective of their members, the option to choose or to opt out of immunizations is likely to be narrowed.  The more that individual people insist upon their right to reject optional immunizations, the more likely it is that societies will make such things mandatory rather than optional.

 

You have a point.  Right now countries are not allowing foreigners to enter as they try to protect citizens.  But things are changing so quickly in our world, figure best to wait and see when vaccine available.  I doubt we can personally anticipate what is going to happen.  

[lissie]

Well  if you arrive in New Zealand at the moment (and you're unlikely to be able to unless you are a citizen) - but if you do you will met at the airport -  put on a bus taken to designated hotel and put in your room and not allowed out (except for exercise) for 14 days. You will be tested on day 3 and day 12. If you refuse the tests you could be held in the hotel for 28 days.  Oh and they will charge you for the privilege. There is little to no debate here about people's rights being infringed. If you don't want to do quarantine don't come. 

 

I don't' see why cruise ships should be any different  in terms of vaccine. A whole munch of unvaccinated people getting sick will impact on the enjoyment  of my holiday when the ship is banned from ports. 

 

I'm OK with a vaccine - though probably would prefer one that wasn't American - given the political pressures to rush one to the US market before November. 

 

I have a yellow vaccine book that  I take with me every time I travel it is well stamped. 

[sverigecruiser]

18 hours ago, LewiLewi said:

I am wondering in the future, if a COVID-19 vaccination should be a requirement to board any cruise ship for any length of time?

I am interested in fellow cruiser’s opinions.

 

NO.

 

I'm not against vaccinations and as a child I got every vaccine I was offered. As an adult I think that the decision shall be mine and noone elses. I have not taken any flu shots before and don't plan to do it in the future either.

 

If cruiselines make Covid-19 vaccines mandatory I will then decide if I shall cruise or not but right now I don't plan to get a Covid-19 shot.

 

Wear a mask on a cruise is not an option because I will not enjoy that cruise but I might take a Covid-19 shot if I have to to be able to cruise.  

 

 

 

 

   

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

It's about choice.  Freedom to decide what personal risks we wish to take or not to take.   Those who choose to be vaccinated, good luck to them.  Leave the rest of us to make our own decisions.  Vaccines should not be mandated, on cruises or anywhere else.

I don’t personally take issue with the ‘freedom’ arguement. However, it works both ways. I strongly believe that schools will require the vaccine to allow children to attend. And people who don’t want to vaccinate their children are free to home school. I also strongly believe that many countries will require proof of vaccination to travel to them (precedent for this currently exists with yellow fever). And those who don’t want to vaccinate are free to stay in the US. The question on the table, however, is if most countries require the Covid vaccine to travel to them - then of course a cruise like taking you to them won’t let you board without it. Then would you get it? Or would you be happy to never  again take a vacation that leaves the US? 
 

for me, if it appears safe and effective after phase 3 testing, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point. Morally, not sure I would try to get it immediately since I’m very low risk and would rather see it go to high risk initially. But I’m sure the day will come when it’s as easy to get as a flu vaccine, and then I will get it.

[evandbob]

I think everyone posting is missing an important piece: 

 

It may take a year, possible 2 or 3, from the time a vaccine is approved to when it can be given to a majority of the population. 

 

So by the time there are enough potential cruisers and crew vaccinated, most cruiselines will have gone bankrupt.

[d9704011]

45 minutes ago, evandbob said:

I think everyone posting is missing an important piece: 

 

It may take a year, possible 2 or 3, from the time a vaccine is approved to when it can be given to a majority of the population. 

 

So by the time there are enough potential cruisers and crew vaccinated, most cruiselines will have gone bankrupt.

Fair enough, that’s your opinion and you may very well be correct.  I hope you’ll allow that the discussion of these hypothetical situations with a lot of complex variables would be pretty difficult if we weren’t permitted to suspend belief, credulity and the likelihood of change/variability when prognosticating.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, evandbob said:

I think everyone posting is missing an important piece: 

 

It may take a year, possible 2 or 3, from the time a vaccine is approved to when it can be given to a majority of the population. 

 

So by the time there are enough potential cruisers and crew vaccinated, most cruiselines will have gone bankrupt.

that’s only if you assume cruising will not resume without a vaccine. Based on MSCs success I think that is unlikely. They have shown that testing at boarding and mask wearing has been effective. The second question is what to do when the occasional case inevitably makes it onboard. If they can find a reasonable and rational response - probably some degree of contract tracing with quarantining plus rapid testing of everyone to show they are not currently infected and instructions to quarantine for 2 weeks at home. They can restart without a vaccine. It appears that they are growing less optimistic that a vaccine will be 100% effective so while it will be a tool, it will probably have to be used in conjunction with other tools like mask wearing and rapid testing. The vaccine is most likely not going to kill the spread on its own.

[evandbob]

21 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

that’s only if you assume cruising will not resume without a vaccine. Based on MSCs success I think that is unlikely. They have shown that testing at boarding and mask wearing has been effective. The second question is what to do when the occasional case inevitably makes it onboard. If they can find a reasonable and rational response - probably some degree of contract tracing with quarantining plus rapid testing of everyone to show they are not currently infected and instructions to quarantine for 2 weeks at home. They can restart without a vaccine. It appears that they are growing less optimistic that a vaccine will be 100% effective so while it will be a tool, it will probably have to be used in conjunction with other tools like mask wearing and rapid testing. The vaccine is most likely not going to kill the spread on its own.

 

You raise valid points, but the OP posed the question as :Should Coronavirus Vaccination be Mandatory to Cruise?

 

If it's mandatory to be vaccinated, then my answer is that many cruise lines will be out of business by that time.

 

If it's not, then other factors play out as you suggest, but my family won't be among those testing the waters.

 

 

[iancal]

It is the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rule.

 

Ultimately it will be up to to cruise lines to make the vaccination rules for their fleets just as it will be for countries to make the rules about who they admit and under what conditions. 

 

No doubt there will be people who decide not to vaccinate or for some reason cannot.  Their choice.  But it will be the choice of the cruise line or the country as to whether to admit them.

 

Given the choice between a cruise line that requires the vaccination and one that does not I know which one I would prefer. 

 

We are planning our first post covid (hopefully) international  land trip for next fall  We are purposely selecting  countries  on our bucket list that have been been successful in curbing covid infections.  Just as we will purposely avoiding countries that have the worst covid performance practices and results.  That includes our air routings.

Edited September 20, 2020 by iancal

[sanger727]

29 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 

You raise valid points, but the OP posed the question as :Should Coronavirus Vaccination be Mandatory to Cruise?

 

If it's mandatory to be vaccinated, then my answer is that many cruise lines will be out of business by that time.

 

If it's not, then other factors play out as you suggest, but my family won't be among those testing the waters.

 

 

I read the post differently. I read it as ‘once a vaccine is readily available will it be mandatory to get to cruise’ not ‘will cruising require a vaccine and no cruising without a vaccine’ 

 

my answer to the second question is no.  In most areas most businesses are open, amusement parks are open, sports are getting back into opening stadiums, and we have a tentative success at a mass market cruise line restarting. I still think it may take until the end of the year. But I believe cruising will restart before a vaccine is readily available enough to be a travel requirement.

Edited September 20, 2020 by sanger727

[clo]

12 hours ago, pris993 said:

Right now countries are not allowing foreigners to enter as they try to protect citizens.

I have British friends who live in England but are petsitting in Switzerland. They'll return home next week and will have to do a strict self-isolate for 14 days.