Congressional Investigation into CDC No-Sail Order

[travelhound]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

Perhaps the probe should be expanded to include the flip-flop fiasco related to CDC guidelines for opening schools or perhaps the numerous times the CDC reversed positions.  Surely such a probe would take months and months.  

Good point, the CDC is a joke.

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, firefly333 said:

I know    ... you missed my pt. Cdc only seems to oversee cruising and between them and politics can run them bankrupt. 

 

Yes they do have that power, unfortunately. 

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m not sure this investigation, if it happens, will speed up the process. 
 

M8

 

Designed to slow down the approval process, IMHO. 

[Ourusualbeach]

22 minutes ago, molly361 said:

If you booked thru a Ontario TA (like I have) aren't the deposits and such protected under TICO?

Deposits and FCC's are protected

[travelhound]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Well if it isn't another hurdle...now Congress is probing the CDC with a request of information pertaining to the influence the White House had in the decision to block the CDC from extending the no-sail order into February 15, 2021.  I'm afraid this is going to take time away from the CDC to tend to other matters, such as reviewing the Healthy Sail report proposed by RCG and NCL.  Wondering what plan Carnival proposed, if any? 

 

https://transportation.house.gov/news/press-releases/amid-allegations-the-trump-white-house-intervened-on-cdcs-no-sail-order-for-cruise-industry-chair-maloney-expands-records-request-to-cdc

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/10/14/cruise-probe-congress-looks-into-trump-influence-cdc-cruise-order/3657627001/

It's just political noise, designed to influence the election.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Deposits and FCC's are protected

 

Wonder how that would work if they're out of business. 

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, travelhound said:

It's just political noise, designed to influence the election.

 

It might be designed for noise but it will cause delays if they have to produce the tons of information they are requesting, which in turn will hurt the cruise industry. 

[Mapleleafforever]

33 minutes ago, molly361 said:

If you booked thru a Ontario TA (like I have) aren't the deposits and such protected under TICO?

Yes, and I just found that out a few weeks ago thanks to @Ourusualbeach

[d9704011]

8 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

It might be designed for noise but it will cause delays if they have to produce the tons of information they are requesting, which in turn will hurt the cruise industry. 

Delays in what exactly?  Reviewing the Healthy Sail Panel’s recommendations?  That wasn’t a plan.  IMO, cruising from US ports won’t be resuming prior to December and I have doubts about that; responding to the Committee’s request for documentation won’t impact cruise resumption timelines.  The request is a fishing expedition for information supporting WH interference in the CDC’s business.

[yogimax]

1 hour ago, Vera/Lee said:

So many people are being hurt by these lock downs. 

So many people have died and are continuing to die without these lock downs.

[livingonthebeach]

16 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Delays in what exactly?  Reviewing the Healthy Sail Panel’s recommendations?  That wasn’t a plan.  IMO, cruising from US ports won’t be resuming prior to December and I have doubts about that; responding to the Committee’s request for documentation won’t impact cruise resumption timelines.  The request is a fishing expedition for information supporting WH interference in the CDC’s business.

Before this information was requested, already the CDC was complaining they didn’t have enough manpower.  Now they are faced with sifting through hundreds of emails and documents, compiling it and delivering to Congress before a certain date. 
 

Nothing is happening before December or 2020 for that matter, especially now with this additional investigation.  

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Before this information was requested, already the CDC was complaining they didn’t have enough manpower.  Now they are faced with sifting through hundreds of emails and documents, compiling it and delivering to Congress before a certain date. 
 

Nothing is happening before December or 2020 for that matter, especially now with this additional investigation.  

Nothing was going to sail or happen before the election according to several sources. Cruise info went silent imo. Time to sit on your hands.

[Cannavaro]

3 hours ago, Wedgeh said:

Italy's cases per 100,000 is around a tenth that of Florida.

4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Creditors, shareholders, ticket holders, cruise partners, suppliers will all be in line to recoup their interests, that is a sure thing if the ban continues for an inordinate amount of time. 

 

Of course Asia and Europe are not NA.  It's a different market with different laws, but if it can be successfully done there, it follows that if we relax some of our requirements and follow proven effective protocols, safe sailing could conceivably resume. 

The thing about stats is it can always be pointed in a favorable direction of one's choosing.

Florida does have double the cases of Italy, but Italy has had more than double the deaths of Florida. Technically Florida has been more successful(if you value less deaths over positive tests) against the disease than Italy but Italy is already sailing. 

 

Disney opened up in July with mass hysteria and pending doom from everyone yet that has failed to occur from what we understand; once again depending on how you value what is successful these days. 

[Mapleleafforever]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Wonder how that would work if they're out of business. 

TICO (Travel Industry Council of Ontario) insures in case of bankruptcy. One of the many great reasons to book through a TA up here.

[Iamcruzin]

3 hours ago, Vera/Lee said:

IF bankrupt happens, which I hope does not, it will hurt so many people as stated above. I wonder what would happen to the Loyal Crown & Anchor benefits. Would that program disappear with bankrupt like the common stock could? So many people are being hurt by these lock downs. Even the WHO noted that the other day.

From my experience working for a company who went bankrupt, gift cards, store credits and the customer loyalty programs were the first to go. This was mandated by the court and was enforced to the letter. It was very difficult for the managers and the customers to accept this when all along we gave them whatever they wanted.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[Ashland]

Then unless I'm misunderstanding it would have been better if the White House had stayed out of this ?

[Mapleleafforever]

3 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Then unless I'm misunderstanding it would have been better if the White House had stayed out of this ?

Hard to say IMO. Sometimes you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Mapleleafforever

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, yogimax said:

So many people have died and are continuing to die without these lock downs.

And it could have gotten or going to get worse. We as a country should have all locked

down together very early on...things might have been better by now.

We have always been the "United" States of America...this time we weren't.

[HicksRA]

3 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Who cares about our FCC"s, deposits, and paid cruises, what about our C&A statuses?!!?!?!?!??!?!

 

Yes, that's a joke.......

Maybe they’ll give us one point for each $100 lost...., 😁

[HicksRA]

3 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Who cares about our FCC"s, deposits, and paid cruises, what about our C&A statuses?!!?!?!?!??!?!

 

Yes, that's a joke.......

Double post. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by HicksRA

[firefly333]

31 minutes ago, Ashland said:

And it could have gotten or going to get worse. We as a country should have all locked

down together very early on...things might have been better by now.

We have always been the "United" States of America...this time we weren't.

Or targeted lock downs as the WHO now suggests. WHO changed their policy.

 

Like dallas went up, lock down seniors and vulnerable and we dont have bars open, most banks the lobbys not open, masks mandatory. We dropped to orange only 6 weeks, back to red. Nail salons and hair, and gyms, dont go our news said. Each county could vote on bars. Judge jenkins here voted no.,

 

If this isnt full targeted lock down Idk what is. Red alert is highest. 

[yogimax]

33 minutes ago, Ashland said:

And it could have gotten or going to get worse. We as a country should have all locked

down together very early on...things might have been better by now.

We have always been the "United" States of America...this time we weren't.

Great point.

 

Even when it came to acquiring life saving ventilators and PPE, we became the Divided States of America as states were bidding against other states and even the federal government for needed supplies.

[Saturngrl]

Cruises are also huge fundraisers for not-for-profit charities.   I serve as Board President for one and our organization will take a big financial hit if our February 2, 2021 cruise gets cancelled.  

 

I just read the letter and am appalled that the CDC has failed to comply with previous requests by congress for records and documentation.   CDC is non-compliant, so why should the cruise lines be punished?  

 

Before COVID 19, the big fear on cruise ships was Norovirus.  I will continue to do the same thing on future cruises that I did to prevent Norovirus: 

• Wipe down every hard surface in the cabin with disinfectant wipes upon entry
• UV light linens and cloth surfaces in the cabin
• Consider every surface on the ship and off the ship as being  contaminated and requiring hand hygiene. 
• Social distancing when able and adding a mask as required.  

I work in hospitals and these practices continue to ward off viruses.  

Edited October 15, 2020 by Saturngrl
added info

[Hoopster95]

3 hours ago, bouhunter said:

But as you said, in the US anyway there is a big difference between Chapter's 7 & 11.

 

Imagine.... just a very short 6 months ago, RCL secured $2.2 BILLION dollars that would allow them to survive for about

16-17 months, and just the other day announced another $1 BILLION stock offering, for a total of about $3.7 BILLION dollars of fund raising basically. That takes them to approx. December'ish of 2021 with zero revenue.

 

So RCG actually plans (has been planning) to be shut down, worst case scenario, until December 2021. 

 

I believe bankruptcy/CH7or11 won't be in the discussion until Q2 or Q3 2021... if it gets that far without sailing then yikes!!

[boscobeans]

2 hours ago, yogimax said:

So many people have died and are continuing to die without these lock downs.

Which lock downs ?

 

The lockdowns on things the majors and governors don't  like,  based on their particular whims or ideology?